EGR blanking / blocking - what is the real deal?

[Big-D]

Good day forum members...

I don't know if this has been discussed already, but I can't seem to find the proper loop.

EGR - to blank/block or not to.

Sub-forum member owners of Montero's / Fortuner's / Everest's and the other diesel SUV's swear that there are benefits and some do not.

My question is WHY would the manufacturers (Mistubishi / Toyota / Ford / Hyundai / Kia and the others build engines that incorporate EGR's only to have it blocked / blanked by modifiers. (again this is a prerogative of the owners)
There has to be a reason why EGR's are there in the first place and that's to reduce harmful emissions.
HOWEVER, if you leave it unblocked / unblanked your engine produces black smoke and the manifolds accumulate soot.
So what gives???

There are mechanics who simply say "let just clean or replace the EGR when it becomes dirty, madali lang yan"
Modifiers say "blank / block it immediatetly, it will save you money in the long run. No smoke and faster and stronger accelartion"
Owners however have mixed results:
Negative - CEL, fouled up ECU's, melted plates, still emitting smoke, etc
Positive - no more black smoke and faster accelartion , no EGR to clean and manifolds stay clean too.

Then there is also the question of passing the smoke emission test for registration.
If you blank blank / block, will your engine emit higher NOX reading coz the EGR is not doing what it is intended to do, which is reduce unwanted emission.

I know this is debatable.
Appreciate your comments / inputs / and learned suggestions.

Thanks !!

[Lew_Alcindor]

You already answered your own questions. Frankly, I dont understand the point of this thread.

Sent from my GT-N5100 using Tapatalk 2

[Big-D]

You already answered your own questions. Frankly, I dont understand the point of this thread.

Sent from my GT-N5100 using Tapatalk 2

Senyor Lew...

Thanks, i see your point too...
My main concern rather is when I register on the 4th year...
Just got my rig so 3yrs rehistro ko. Frankly I have not made up my mind on what to do kaya am asking in here.
There is still my 3 yr warranty if things foul-up... then again I might blank prior to the end of warranty... i dunno.
Never had this quandry on my gas fed cars and an old gen diesel wrangler (no ecu, just direct injection).
My fortuner is past warranty so that can be an experiment... the montero is just a month old though.

Thanks again.

[12vdc]

Just remember this very basic explanation..

ALL emission control device is harmful to your engine, to list few:

EGR
crancase ventilator
Gaso evaporative filter
Cat
DPF
urea injection

Why i said harmful? Because the efforts to have cleaner emission always have a tradeoff. These devices tend to fail in time,cause self-destruction of engine, and requires additional maintenance/ expense in maintaining it. People blank EGR to prevent this kinds of problems.

Care about the environment? In my opinion, blanking EGR is not illegal here. Our government does not measure Nox nor they are capable of knowing. The standard test at LTO is only Opacity test w/c is only particulate emission, not the invisible Nox.

Another is, EGR only works when the engine is idling(on diesels). Cruising speed and its shut like it does not exist.

[OTEP]

After having engines fail at the most critical of times (see signature), we opted to blank the EGR's on most of our units especially the older ones.

We are in a non legislative market meaning EGR is not required here in the same way that ABS and Airbags are also not mandatory on cars. Our vehicles will pass all applicable local emissions laws with the EGR blocked.

A blocked EGR can raise EGT (exhaust gas temp) so it's also nice to have an EGT gauge on board (we have not phased in EGT yet).

[Big-D]

Just remember this very basic explanation..

ALL emission control device is harmful to your engine, to list few:

EGR
crancase ventilator
Gaso evaporative filter
Cat
DPF
urea injection

Why i said harmful? Because the efforts to have cleaner emission always have a tradeoff. These devices tend to fail in time,cause self-destruction of engine, and requires additional maintenance/ expense in maintaining it. People blank EGR to prevent this kinds of problems.

Care about the environment? In my opinion, blanking EGR is not illegal here. Our government does not measure Nox nor they are capable of knowing. The standard test at LTO is only Opacity test w/c is only particulate emission, not the invisible Nox.

Another is, EGR only works when the engine is idling(on diesels). Cruising speed and its shut like it does not exist.

Sir 12vdc...

Those were points to ponder... well taken
Also LTO's testing opacity of particulate emission, didn't know that before. I just ask testing center if readings are still low or critical.
Nonetheless, I'll see what the reading is on my fortuner which doesn't have it's EGR blocked, due for rehistro by Jan, and it's no longer warranty.
Maybe that will dictate what I will do with the new rig (montero sport).... BTW, mileage on 3 yr old fortuner is only 21k

So is it safe to say that ordinary stop lights idling is alright?... I am fortunate not to be driving in rush hour traffic (EDSA, C-5, and Manila area)
This way my EGR only actuates in stop lights.... very enlightening.

Thanks a lot !!

[rna800]

I am also intrigued with this EGR blanking considering I myself experienced before that dreaded MIL/CEL showing on my dash due to malfunctioning EGR. Wala namang masamang nangyari sa auto but I felt a loss or restricted power. Parang may nakasakal. Buti nalang pwede palang linisin. Ung SCV ang hindi pwedeng linisin.

So if blanking can be considered a solution for it not to recur, might as well do it. But my dilemma is what if it will cause more problems. Kaya nagdadalawang isip akong subukan.

Sir Otep, what would happen if the EGT gets too high? Also, how will it get high or what would raise it too a high level? Is it like while driving on the highway, stuck in traffic?

[Big-D]

After having engines fail at the most critical of times (see signature), we opted to blank the EGR's on most of our units especially the older ones.

We are in a non legislative market meaning EGR is not required here in the same way that ABS and Airbags are also not mandatory on cars. Our vehicles will pass all applicable local emissions laws with the EGR blocked.

A blocked EGR can raise EGT (exhaust gas temp) so it's also nice to have an EGT gauge on board (we have not phased in EGT yet).

Sir Otep...

A blocked EGR can raise EGT (exhaust gas temp) so it's also nice to have an EGT gauge on board (we have not phased in EGT yet).
*** this is one thing I have read which caught my attention. and this was validated by a mehcanic friend. An engine will be running relatively hotter in this set-up, so EGT is a must.***
You're right EGR's aren't mandated yet so we can still tinker with it.
Thanks for the inputs. !!

[OTEP]

The raised EGT's won't really be a problem unless you run the engines flat out for extended periods. hehe.

On Patrols running ZD30 engines, the turbo tended to overboost causing the EGT's to shoot up on units with blanked EGR's.

Most newer vehicles have safeguards against overboost that the Patrol didn't. But you can opt to install a boost gauge if you want to monitor boost yourself.

[12vdc]

Just like what sir Otep mentioned, blanking EGR on newer engines won't make your EGT that hot enough to melt the impeller of your turbo because newer engines have overboost sensor. It should raise concern only if you are operating your vehicle at extremes (like racing the car or hauling a trailer uphill for long periods) then neglecting proper maintenance.

This way my EGR only actuates in stop lights.... very enlightening.

Engine will not run efficiently if EGR is open at high rpm because of lower oxygen content. That is the reason why a faulty stucked-open EGR results to loss of power in turbodiesels.

EGR is like a crap from the anus being fed back into the mouth.

Basta may kinalaman sa environment na nakakabit o nilalagay sa car, may detrimental effect sa car.

Naglabas ng biodiesel, it eats the older rubber and oil seals. Bio also are more prone to sludge and water contamination.

Binawasan ang sulfur, nabawasan din ang lubricity ng fuel.

Nilagyan ng ethanol ang gaso, tumotope ang makina kelangan i advance, mahina power.


If your car could only talk, it is veery happy without those environmental thingy.

Now, you should wonder how a 30+yrs old jeepney engine without these environmental device(and venting the crancase in the atmosphere) could pass an LTO testing.

[monty_GTV]

and for easy reference and just a few mouse click away, please do not forget what mr. wiki says about EGR...

Exhaust gas recirculation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Thumbdrive]

*Big-D, learn from the experience of other monty (and other vehicles with EGR) owners that did or had their EGR blanked, also why we regret having that done late (running several thousand kilometers already before blanking).
if it's me, given another chance, i will blank that right away after stepping out of the casa.

[Big-D]

Now, you should wonder how a 30+yrs old jeepney engine without these environmental device(and venting the crancase in the atmosphere) could pass an LTO testing.

Sir 12vdc....

That is the million dollar question !!!
Euro2 - Euro4 (I heard euro5 is coming out soon too) might not be the outright answer as the vehicle needs to be rated as to compatibility.

Like what I've mentioned earlier, my old school wrangler (no u, just direct injection), when emission readings started to get nasty, went to my suking mechanic, bored a hole in the upper exhaust (right after engine) welded an inlet pipe, and whalaa, instant water with soap cleaning prior to testing and it passed. That wrangler is lifted and intended for the bukid and for baha literally, sometimes it makes the rounds of city driving on weekends as well... and oh btw, it's close to 20 yrs old with a toyota 2L engine.

The past decade saw the emergence of SUV's with EGR's and CRDI's, and all this "environmental thingy" slapped into it.
Am starting to wonder if newer rigs are really not meant to last long, not like the ones manufactured 20-30 some years ago (an example is the original land cruiser of the 70's)

That said, everything could just be darn out marketing / manufacturing consideration.
"don't make it last long so customers will buy new rigs"
If the 3yr old fortuner at 21K mileage still holds clean in the emission test, then hopefully maintenance cleaning of the EGR, SCV, and manifold will work just fine.... on the otherhand and th emission test shows it's fouled-up, then replacements and eventual EGR blanking will be in the works, afterall "Forty" is already passed warranty

Thanks big time Sir !!!
*** maybe we should stick to gasoline cars, mahal nga lang kesa krudo (",) ***

[Big-D]

*Big-D, learn from the experience of other monty (and other vehicles with EGR) owners that did or had their EGR blanked, also why we regret having that done late (running several thousand kilometers already before blanking).
if it's me, given another chance, i will blank that right away after stepping out of the casa.

Salamat Sir Thumbdrive,

Point well taken, will keep that suggestion handy.

[monty_GTV]

an old article about EGR...

AutoSpeed - EGR Comeback

[monty_GTV]

borrowing a photo from a recent article in autoindustriya.com...Getting to know the Turbocharger



the real deal in EGR blanking or blocking? it's item number 5, the cool air that enters the engine called "BOOST". you need that cold air to have more efficient combustion and more power.

being environment friendly is another thing

[Wh1stl3r]

I've debated whether to have this done but decided to go for it. The list of harm Nox can do to the environment is pretty extensive. But after seeing how degenerative it is to the engine, (specially with 500 ppm sulfur fuel) I've decided it defeats its intended purpose. It may seem harmless when your car is new, but after a few tens of thousands of Km's your emissions are going to degrade exponentially.

I had it blocked and planted some trees to get rid of the guilt. If ever the time comes that every station had Euro 5 diesel I'd unblock it and maybe use something like Seafoam?

As for using only gasoline powered cars, that may be counterproductive. It would bring the prices of gasoline up if everyone used it. I still think it's better to "use all the parts of the chicken".

*12vdc
I thought EGR valve was closed at idle, and only opened at part throttle. Also delete some messages, I can't send you a PM hehe.

[Djerms]

I've debated whether to have this done but decided to go for it. The list of harm Nox can do to the environment is pretty extensive. But after seeing how degenerative it is to the engine, (specially with 500 ppm sulfur fuel) I've decided it defeats its intended purpose. It may seem harmless when your car is new, but after a few tens of thousands of Km's your emissions are going to degrade exponentially.

I had it blocked and planted some trees to get rid of the guilt. If ever the time comes that every station had Euro 5 diesel I'd unblock it and maybe use something like Seafoam?

As for using only gasoline powered cars, that may be counterproductive. It would bring the prices of gasoline up if everyone used it. I still think it's better to "use all the parts of the chicken".

*12vdc
I thought EGR valve was closed at idle, and only opened at part throttle. Also delete some messages, I can't send you a PM hehe.

That was also what I thought. However based on my obd2 scanner, its always partly open 20%, then opens more if you baby drive. But if you punch the accelerator, it will just be at 20%. This is on my ranger t6. On my civic fb, its always closed unless you baby drive

Sent from my GT-I9082 using Tapatalk

[Wh1stl3r]

^
20%?! Not good at all. I-block na lang nga. Hehe.

Here's an interesting read comparing the amount of pollutants of diesel and gasoline.
Vehicle Emissions | Air Pollution | City Diesel | LPG | CNG
Gas isn't exactly "cleaner".

[OTEP]

borrowing a photo from a recent article in autoindustriya.com...Getting to know the Turbocharger



the real deal in EGR blanking or blocking? it's item number 5, the cool air that enters the engine called "BOOST". you need that cold air to have more efficient combustion and more power.

being environment friendly is another thing

With a sufficient airflow to an intercooler with a large enough surface area, the drop in air temp entering the combustion chamber plus the positive pressure provided by the turbocharger is sufficient to provide the boost in power. I think berrima diesel will allow you to dyno the vehicle prior and after work is done by them (if you have them block the EGR). The EGR cooler (not all vehicles have this) is placed to cool the hot exhaust gases that are being recirculated back. Otherwise, it will just counteract the cool air being chilled by the intercooler.

The cooling happens as ambient air is passed through the intercooler after being pressurized by the turbocharger. This is where the increased power comes from (forced induction plus intercooling)

The egr cooler just cools the insanely hot exhaust gases before mixing it up with the cooled ambient air.