variable valve engine comparo

[niky]

*alwayz_yummy: Matinding hirap maghanap ng SR16VE, and IMHO, it's not worth it. SR20VEs can be found, but they'd be expensive. At least with the SR20VE, you can make nearly the same HP (200 hp or more, with intake and exhaust mods) and all you need to do on the electronics side is use an rpm-sensitive solenoid to activate the "hot cams". It can use the stock SR20DE ECU... hehe.

Like I said, only one SR16VE has been rumored to have entered the country... and I'm betting finding parts will be hard.

As opposed to the SR20VE, which uses mainly SR20DE parts (and SR20DEs are common as dirt). In fact, even the common SR20DE is a good swap, because it has more torque than the common B16A, and given the same size car, with the same mods, they'd be dead even in 0-100 km/h. The B16A would pull away in the quarter mile, but it'd be very close.

And there's always the SR20DET swap. It'll cost more than a B16A swap, but engines are available, and it's 200-250 hp, unmodified. They're available here. Wag ka nang umasa ng SR20VET, as they're super-rare.

The MIVEC - Lancer swap is actually easier, as there are MIVECs available. I talked to one guy who managed to buy his MIVEC for the price of a SOHC 1.6 because the seller didn't know what it was at the time. The 4G63T swap is doable, pero those are hard to launch (too much power).

And there's always the Toyota 4AGE, 4AGZE and 20V swaps. These are easy, engines are abundant, and prices are lower than with Honda B16s. And one big advantage of the Toyota is that you can fit these engines to a RWD chassis like an old 70's Celica GT or a Starlet.

Surprise! Orly and mazda are both the same guy. Now I know. I have my opinion about variable valve timing and I would like to convince the first poster about the merits of i-VTEC. I stick to the argument and backed it facts from wikipedia which is quite a good resource for educational purposes. If I'm a Honda fanboy and rubs off people like you, it's not my fault. Ika nga... talo ang maasar. He-he-he-he-....

Kaya nga cguro liko-liko pa kayo hanggang sa nakarating na kayo sa
rotary na admittedly, I don't have that kind of motor. But it's not a rocket science na puede lang sa mga elite groups like yours.

Kaya nga I respect whatever opinion you have about Honda's not in the bleeding edge. Opinion mo yan and I can't do something about that. Problema kasi kung hindi mag agree ang opinion ng ibang tao sa inyo, ibabasura nyo dahil kayo lang ang tama.

Actually, mukhang ikaw ang naaasar... Mazdamazda and orly aren't the same person, and though I haven't met orly in person (strange, since we're the two most prolific 626 owners on the board), I'd wager Mazda "Sam Milby" Mazda is cuter.

No offense, they're just saying Honda isn't the cutting edge, they're just the ones who were the most successful with the technology. Di bale na nauna ang Nissan, as Nissan only used the high-output variable valve system on relatively low-production SRs.

But VTEC isn't the be-all and end-all. VTEC's primary purpose is to maintain low-rpm torque while ensuring high-rpm power. NOT to create high rpm power. There were non-turbo engines that broke the 100hp per liter barrier before Honda, BUT they weren't very streetable due to poor low rpm running.

In fact, Honda VTECs are still pretty gutless down low. While I do love them, they didn't gain much acceptance in the US at first because of the poor torque curve. That's why some tuners here prefer the turbo-block Nissan SR20 or the Mitsubishi 4G63T for their cars. Ever hear of the Evo-powered hatchback? The one problem with the SR20DET and 4G63T in project cars is the axle-snapping torque.

Mazda's Rotary is actually a good comparison. The 13B Rotary has over 100 hp per liter and good low-end torque, and the naturally aspirated 13B isn't the maintenance nightmare that the twin turbo motors are. And (*alwayz_yummy) it can be swapped into a 323... but it'd be an expensive swap. Very expensive, with lots of fabrication.

Pero, in the end, the easiest project for the modern tuner is still the Honda B16A, as almost everyone knows how to swap this baby in, and Honda hatchback bodies are supremely light. Plus parts are everywhere.

[BlueBimmer]

uy dami ko namiss dto ah

fanboys da best :D

[rion]

Tokyo Drift? Ito ba yong movie? Haven't seen it yet. But I had a video CD of a famous Japanese race car driver filmed live teaching audiences on how to do drifting. It was actually a documentary/tutorial film and if I can still remember it right, he was using a Toyota (was that a Supra?) -am not so very sure now.

It was the Movie Fast and The Furious 3...

is this the video you saw?
Its the Ordo and Tsuchiya Impressions on Supra and Skyline

Kaya hwag maniwala lahat sa movie

ofcourse po. napahiya lang talaga ako when I watch the FF3 tokyo drift with my friends we were talking about what cars were they... and I said, "I think those were Hondas..."

they probably just lower the vtec activation point...?

probably, saan kaya ako makakabili nyan? hindi kasi uso yan sa probinsya namin.
Honda kasi balak ko bilhin and I will beat those vtec probinsya draggers here with my vtec w/racing chip. just kidding...

the GT-R uses a 2.6L twin-turbo straight-six. aka RB26DETT.

I saw a video kasi, they used 2.7. it was probably a none-stock engine?

[niky]

Yup. Many modifiers offer a stroker kit to upgrade the RB26 to 2.7 liters... but it's still the same engine, as there's no stock RB27... RB20, 24?, 25, 26 at 30(no turbo variant for this) lang.

[alwayz_yummy]

so its cheaper to bring in a nissan pulsar w/sr16ve than the engine alone?-->query lang po.hehe rumored pa yung lagay na yon...

hirap magdecide.lalo na kung limited resources..i'm leaning more sa 6a10/11/4g92mivec next sa 4age/ze/20v...last sa list ko honda...

kung small budget, and limited modification lang ok na, plus with big potential kung full blast modification:which is more feasible?kahit sa commons lang na available na sa surplusan natin...

4age, tama, pwede sa rwd application, kaya siguro may 4age na FX or liteace!

[ferdine]

It was the Movie Fast and The Furious 3...

is this the video you saw?
Its the Ordo and Tsuchiya Impressions on Supra and Skyline

I have that video but there was another one. It was a rare video of Tsuchiya (I got from friend) giving tutorials about drifting. I got it sometime ago - maybe 3 years when drifting was probably unheard of in the PHils. I didn't pay much attention about that because I thought these Japs are nuts. But now, it's a different story. I think time to dig up again those old CD's.

[nugundam93]

rion: hahaha!

ehhehehehehe kulit ng review nila tsuchiya at orido ng "last of the tuned straight-sixes." kinilabutan sila sa Mine's GT-R.

if you look at the spec, RB26 block pa rin yan, they just overbore it. i think the Nismo R34 Z-Tune's 2.8L is still RB26. same with other tuners din who have a bigger than 2.6L displacement. matibay kasi yung RB26 eh.



torque FTW!

[ferdine]

uy dami ko namiss dto ah

fanboys da best :D

Actully nagpahanap na ako ng K20A Type R doon sa Japan(surplus) para masubukan isalpak sa 94 civic hatch ko. I'm afraid aabot ng 350K+ lahat-lahat na according to my friend mechanic. It will take a little time dahil mostly available trannys are auto and the 6 speed manual ang gusto ko. Sabi kasi ng contact ko, karamihan raw kasi ng manual trannys, inuubos ng mga importers sa tate at canadian markets.

[squala]

Technology-wise, Honda tends to get most of the credit. Even if they did not pioneer VVT, many people think they're the ones who invented it. So what if they're misinformed? Hondas are selling very well. Simply adding '3' to VTEC made some junk Civic do nicely in the sales department. Sounds like a winner? Definitely. But is it? Hell no, but who cares if many buy it?

Technology is appreciated on how well it's marketed and not who invented it or how well the it is employed in a car. Some don't even believe the current Sentra really has VTC. Instead, they're thinking that Nissan is just stretching the truth because there's already VTEC and VVTi. Sure, Nissan used variable valve timing ahead of Honda and maybe Toyota, but is that what matters now? The real winners are those that only followed suit, but did better in things that counted most, namely, proven branding and excellent marketing.

Now who made the most power out of a 1.6-liter engine without turbos or supercharging? It's not the B16 like everyone thinks, but the Nissan SR16VE. That's 200 hp vs. only 185 (Type R B16B) for the Honda. But who really won? Honda. Why? It's power that can be appreciated. Nissan only made a few hundred Pulsar hatches with that engine, while B16s are appreciated everywhere. Sure the Nissan is a rarity, but it's no vintage classic. It will also not see itself boasting the shortest quarter-mile times in an all-motor 1.6, because it's cocooned in Japan with only a selected 'lucky' few to witness its prowess.

[niky]

so its cheaper to bring in a nissan pulsar w/sr16ve than the engine alone?-->query lang po.hehe rumored pa yung lagay na yon...

hirap magdecide.lalo na kung limited resources..i'm leaning more sa 6a10/11/4g92mivec next sa 4age/ze/20v...last sa list ko honda...

kung small budget, and limited modification lang ok na, plus with big potential kung full blast modification:which is more feasible?kahit sa commons lang na available na sa surplusan natin...

4age, tama, pwede sa rwd application, kaya siguro may 4age na FX or liteace!

RE: Pulsar, good luck finding one. Pero Pulsar GTi-R na AWD SR20DET, meron. At meron din front cut ng SR20DET. hehehe.

Actully nagpahanap na ako ng K20A Type R doon sa Japan(surplus) para masubukan isalpak sa 94 civic hatch ko. I'm afraid aabot ng 350K+ lahat-lahat na according to my friend mechanic. It will take a little time dahil mostly available trannys are auto and the 6 speed manual ang gusto ko. Sabi kasi ng contact ko, karamihan raw kasi ng manual trannys, inuubos ng mga importers sa tate at canadian markets.

Is that with the original US mounting kit, or fabricate-fabricate lang? Hwow, mahal! Better wait a few years for cheaper engines...

[alwayz_yummy]

actually, this is what made me love the pulsar:




may similarities sa sentra/sunny...

yup, kung rare/limited production ng models na may sr16ve (1600vz-r and aero selection), better off na nga lang ako sa sr20det models....

anywayz, tama nga about sa marketing ng vtec, honda made it a regular production, with the best version reserved for limited or sport models. other manufacturers use their vvt on sport models, not sa ordinary lineup.

with so many selections hirap magdecide...just keep them pouring...

[ferdine]

RE:

Is that with the original US mounting kit, or fabricate-fabricate lang? Hwow, mahal! Better wait a few years for cheaper engines...

Yeah right. Hasport meron na. Madali lang may bro ako sa tate. He offered me once to send a complete kit (engine + the rest) pero napakamahal sa customs. At sabi pa delicado pag na tipohan sa mga anak ng mga collectors na nag kakarera. Susubukan ko lang muna itong surplus kung may makita, at least bahala na ang importer. Ayos din naman mech ko galing sa Honda at nagsarili.

[alwayz_yummy]

sir ferdie, kung chop-chop mo padala dito?

[mazdamazda]

Surprise! Orly and mazda are both the same guy.

And then you tell us na naasar kami? :charing:

Now I know. I have my opinion about variable valve timing and I would like to convince the first poster about the merits of i-VTEC.

So what have you done to convince the first poster?

Just posted some artciles from wikipedia? That's it? :lol:

Me? Did I bash i-VTEC? Heck no... I even argued that it is also one of the most technological advanced VVT system (cam-phasing & cam-changing). Just a notch below VarioCam Plus & VVTL-i.

Problema kasi kung hindi mag agree ang opinion ng ibang tao sa inyo, ibabasura nyo dahil kayo lang ang tama.

Ibabasura?

That's just plain debating. As you said...

Ika nga... talo ang maasar. He-he-he-he-.

Sino kaya ang naasar?

:busted:

[ferdine]

:boom1: [QUOTE=mazdamazda;630438]
Just posted some artciles from wikipedia? That's it? :lol:
[QUOTE]

At least wikipedia though anybody could write, is more authoritative and accurate than you.

Sino kaya ang naasar?
:busted:

Sino nga kaya?
Sino nga kaya ang na rub off in the wrong way sa honda fanboy na katulad ko? Itanong mo kay Orly? If I address it to you, orly answers, if I address it probably to Orly ikaw naman ang sasagot... he-he-he-he-:boom1:

[alwayz_yummy]

di pa kasi ko leaned sa honda vtec..mahal ang engine, pero powerwise, other manufacturers can give more...yep its highly in-demand, pero, having what everybody will always want, makes me turn away..kaya siguro maxima nabagsak sa akin...kahit local, rare sight.

mahirap magspend ng more than 50-60 thou sa engine lang, madaming considerations,e... query ko to kasi, CA20 8valve sohc electro-carb engine etong maxima, drink as much as your VQ20/6a12/13...a typical 4.0 ford v6, pero 2.0L lang akin...kaya papalitan na ng mom ko... have no direct background sa vvt..pero great potential. i'm focused more on vvt 1.6-1.8L(madali i-justify kaysa sa 2.0v6/4g63..much more ung 2.2 and 2,5L) so take advantage ko technology ng vvt.

either honda or toyota lang may options for vvt, nissan, masyadong bago pa, and expensive...and not much na resale ng maxima kasi,e..konti lang maidadag-dag..

[mazdamazda]

At least wikipedia though anybody could write, is more authoritative and accurate than you.

Can you point out which of my previous post/s is not accurate?

Can you are to explain to me why i-VTEC is technologically more superior to VarioCam Plus?

Sino nga kaya?
Sino nga kaya ang na rub off in the wrong way sa honda fanboy na katulad ko? Itanong mo kay Orly? If I address it to you, orly answers, if I address it probably to Orly ikaw naman ang sasagot... he-he-he-he-

Uhh...

ALL OF US?

:hihihi:

[ferdine]

sir ferdie, kung chop-chop mo padala dito?

Naisip ko rin yon. pero malaki trabaho doon sa magpapadala at mapalaki lalo ang trabaho sa mech. Baka mawala pa yong ibang parts. But if mahirapan ako doon sa importer na nakausap ko, baka i reconsider ko na idea na yan.

[alwayz_yummy]

guys, wag kayo magaway dito...i dont want to proke this.... i just want comparison..i'm glad naka 4 pages na ito...pero sana respetuhan nalang ung opinion,ha?

i just wanna know which vvt engine is "worth it"? siyempre by comparison...actual users also...

[ferdine]

Can you point out which of my previous post/s is not accurate?
:

Pikon ka pala he-he-he-he... itanong mo kaya sa sarili mo.

Can you are to explain to me why i-VTEC is technologically more superior to VarioCam Plus?
:

Wala kong sinabi... baka ikaw...

Uhh...

ALL OF US?

:hihihi:

Haaayhhhhhh. Bandang huli umamin rin.:peace: