American muscle vs japanese ingenuity

[SNAKE V6]

But I am restless...hehehe.

See man, I am not dissing out Am-Cars, like I mentioned in my previous post, vettes, stangs, camaros, etc. I want to own one one of these days. These are great cars and they can beat Jap cars just as Jap cars can beat them. And I love the growl of those big blocks, shredding there tires during car shows and meets. I'm considering buying one when the situation permits me. I did not malign pushrods as to saying they are not approp for the vettes, its the designer's choice. My point is, performance is just not based on the upper bracket cars, it also on te middle and lower markets. And market share usually are indications of a company's products' performance. And where ar the US cars in the international market? I rely more on publication reviews because these guys are given by the manufacturers themselves a car to test. They have test driven countless cars in a scientific, methodical way and thus have something to benchmark it with. Now ain' t that more reliable? You probably have seen already how Jeremy Clarkson have maligned the American designed cars in one of there shows. Some may agree, some may not. It's a matter of taste and preference, I prefer balance over brawn.

[empy]

Ask yourself this question: Why are Americans, who are one of the most patriotic people you'll ever meet buy more import cars than domestic?

I rest my case.

the answer to that question is - they don't. the US market share of the Big 3 is consistently over 50%.

But I am restless...hehehe.

See man, I am not dissing out Am-Cars, like I mentioned in my previous post, vettes, stangs, camaros, etc. I want to own one one of these days. These are great cars and they can beat Jap cars just as Jap cars can beat them. And I love the growl of those big blocks, shredding there tires during car shows and meets. I'm considering buying one when the situation permits me. I did not malign pushrods as to saying they are not approp for the vettes, its the designer's choice. My point is, performance is just not based on the upper bracket cars, it also on te middle and lower markets. And market share usually are indications of a company's products' performance. And where ar the US cars in the international market? I rely more on publication reviews because these guys are given by the manufacturers themselves a car to test. They have test driven countless cars in a scientific, methodical way and thus have something to benchmark it with. Now ain' t that more reliable? You probably have seen already how Jeremy Clarkson have maligned the American designed cars in one of there shows. Some may agree, some may not. It's a matter of taste and preference, I prefer balance over brawn.

this is a much more balanced post, and i agree with it much more than your first one, which makes blanket statements about the US being completely incapable of designing a competitive vehicle. that is patently false.

[Flagg]

2. I've gone out of my house, been to DC, MD, NJ, NY, MS, LA, VA, MI, FL, NC, SC, AL, TN, IL, PA never been to the west coast though. I don't travel to RACE, and I rarely travel by plane coz I stay ina state for at least a month, it's part of my job as an Engineering consultant. And I've driven to these places all the way from ATL. So when I say on the road, I mean it per se. If I've been racing and never beaten, I would be in Nascar or Indy right now and you would've probably heard of a Pinoy in race car mainstream and it would've made you proud. But I am not, and never in my comment did I mentioned I raced or modded my car for that purpose.
...

Uh, dunno much about those other places... but at Ohio & Kentucky, the only Japanese car I saw was my cousin's Z... and that's just cuz my uncle refused to get her an SL500.

Btw, in London, UK, the only Japanese cars I saw were those black London taxis. Diesels made by nissan.

[Flagg]

...if its like saturday me and my homies might come u know check what you guys got and show u guys what we are all about in socal peace out


v8 killer

Hey n2knee... sound interesting?

Since Infineon's on Wednesdays, and the killer wants Saturdays... there are some nice copless stretches over by Half-moon Bay or Fashion Island... ehehe.

[oliver1013]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgilWhxacx0

[n2knee]

3. Sources: various mags, reviews, etc. Where they actually drive the vehicle? Put some sensors, time em, waht have you. Do I have to say every publication I read? Go out and read some. They can be found in the stores I mentioned and more. You know what they are. I did say I read them right? not heard em, except for the 300C which you didn't quote on your comment pertaining to this.

did it ever occur to you that a magazine could be bias in its review especially if the car under review is from one of its primary sponsors? look at Road and Track as an example. they are known to give favorable reviews toward European cars (euro cars that are not under the umbrella of a U.S. automaker) and Japanese cars. if you look closely at the advertisers in that magazine you will see that they are either Japanese or European companies. there may be many of you who will disagree with my comment and will say that the publishing company is very selective about companies who can advertise in their magazines, but I say it’s purely b.s. why? because the publication’s primary purpose, is to make money. providing automobile references is just secondary. What else? Automobile Magazine? Motor Trend? Car & Driver? Consumer Reports? What a big joke! Their reliability reports/surveys are questionable.

there are factors that can distort the results such as the weather and the road conditions that cars endure in the west which are different from what the cars in the East endure. consequently the geographic distribution of survey participants have a potentially significant impact on the results, which these magazines fail to take into account. perception also plays a huge factor in how people rate their experiences, which can be influenced by constant media barrage (look at your beloved car magazines) convincing you that their tests are the ultimate references to follow. Lastly these so called “car expert reviewers” are JOURNALISTS!!! NOT CAR ENTHUSIASTS. a journalist and at the same time car enthusiast is an endangered species in the car magazine world. Remember that, so don’t believe anything you see in the magazines.

i am not trying to discount the fact that Toyota and Honda make reliable cars, but to make a blanket statement that JAPANESE brands are more reliable than American brands, or to even dare say that American cars cannot perform and are only made to go on a straight line is silly and idiotic. before you say that I am bias towards the American cars. that is not the case. I have owned four Japanese made vehicles, four American made cars and one from Europe. I just know when to give credit when credit is due.

4. Detroit is in Michigan, I don't know why you can't see the relevance. Detroit is home to US marques. Make the connection.

you made this comment: ” With the exception of Michigan, look around and you will see more Jap/euro cars than there are Americans.” the fact that Detroit is home to the Big Three U.S. Automakers is irrelevant to your conclusion that Detroit is the only place where you can see cars made by The Big 3 outnumbering Japs/Euros on the streets. your various travel experiences are not enough alone to conclude or at least to assume that Detroit is the only place where you can see American cars outnumbering Japs/Euro brands.

5. Yes, the F series is still the no.1 truck. I didn't say it wasn't. Just said that Tundra is catching up, so are the ying yangs. But still more F's can be seen on the roads.

WRONG! Tundra is still WAY behind in terms of sales. Tundra is not far behind in terms of performance, but the fact still remains that it is STILL BEHIND the F Series. don’t even bring up the Korean manufacturers. what do they have to offer in this segment? NONE.

But still more F's can be seen on the roads

they are pretty good trucks. these are actually reliable than one who dislikes American made automobiles would like to believe.

Ridgeline is the JD powers truck

was it JD Powers or Motor Trend? if memory serves me right it was Motor Trend. regardless, this is just a glorified marketing opportunity. many insiders know that this award is for sale to whomever is willing to pay for the tab. Motor Trend has always been the most commercial and vacuous auto magazine you may ever find in a bookshelf. at any rate, the Ridgeline and F Series do not even compete in the same segment.

6. Civic as the benchmark: I've read it in the publicationS.

let me ask you my questions one more time as you failed to answer them. is the Civic the benchmark in which category? sales? reliability? performance? in which market? you have not even answered my question. you just simply provided me a redundant statement.

7. # of Hondas in the Indy: prescisely my point.

you have not proven your point. i asked you to give me the number of teams (out of the forty teams competing in the IRL) that use Honda. in your previous statement you said, “Indy is dominated by Honda”, which everyone who follows IRL knows that out of the forty teams, forty of them use Honda. So making a statement saying that Honda is dominating the IRL is moot as it is competing against its own.

8. Swapping stangs: baseline stangs, didn't say vette owners swapped for a jap.

ok. you have to be very clear when you say SWAPPING STANGS as that is a broad statement, as there are may variations of Mustangs.

9. Factory closing up: Reasons, hmmmmm...poor sales? poor sales? what else...Why would a factory close up when a factory in the same industry is opening? Makes no sense unless you don't need that facility anymore because its not producing.

poor sales is one reason. overproduction is also one. when an assembly line is overproducing they tend to temporarily shut it down and relocate the employees to another plant and reopens the plant when the demand increases. obsolence is another. Shifting of its assembly lines in a non-union country/ or state is another reason. part of this is the increased legacy costs that the US car manufacturers are paying to its non-active employees and retired employees. like i previously stated, there are too many reasons as to why a company shuts down its plant and its hard to assume.

I am not shooting myself on the foot, you're the one who seems to be doing that by implying my points. I didn't say it was all correct but it seem to me that your comments just strengthens alot of my points.

you made stupid blanket statements. i just corrected you, so don’t get bent over.

10. Cars to me are not merely possessions. They're a part of my family. If you treat em well, they treat you well also. To me a car is an intimate thing, it talks back to you depending on how you treat it. That's why we name em right? I was referring to the physical aspect of cars and women (differences in marque, race), so don't take it like its an insult to women.

if you say so.

11. Englishmen more qualified than Americans? You just proved the point.

you made this statement, “why else did Ford hire an Englishman to head its design team?” if you are referring to J. Mays, last time I checked he was still an AMERICAN. BORN, RAISED, AND EDUCATED IN AMERICA. he worked for a few European car companies prior to joining Ford, but that does not make him a European does it?

12. Precisely, Ford just wants to buy em along with there technology. Why? Because of the technology.

wrong again. generally companies acquire rival companies in hopes to reduce or possibly eliminate competion, expand market share, increase profits, and share technology to reduce r&d costs. now tell me. what Mazda technology is being used in the Ford name plate? it seems to me that you are trying so hard in convincing everyone that American manufacturers are inferior to their Japanese/European counterparts, but have not even produced a single valid argument other than pure biasness, which was a result of reading too much articles from bias auto magazine publications.

i have a news for you, which may break your heart. and let me quote it for you.

This week in Germany, the heart of the C6.R, it's LS7.R motor, was recognized as Global Motorsport Engine of the Year by a jury of 50 race engine engineers. When you consider the breadth of global motorsport and the number of outstanding engines competing on circuits week in and week out, the award becomes even more significant.

not bad considering it is an American company correct?

Ask yourself this question: Why are Americans, who are one of the most patriotic people you'll ever meet buy more import cars than domestic?

dude i don't know where you are getting your stats from..

[ToyoSoarer]

The thing with American Muscle, it's so cheap to get power out of them. Too cheap.

With Japenese cars, it can get very expensive quickly, even on Hondas.

[20vanda01]

^^ anything can happen on the street i guess. or did the guy in the vette know you were racing? :lol:

so you're from so. cali? ever visit nor cal once in a while with your "highly modified" evo? every other wednesday night we have a group that races at infineon raceway. a couple of supercharged IS300, one turbocharged IS300 (toyomoto tuned), two 2003 and one 2004 Cobra with Kenne Bell blowers; 1 2003 Cobra with the Whipple blower; 1 s/c '03 Z06, 1 bolt-on '04 Z06 with "laughing" gas (the group does not know much about his mods), two bolt-on C6 Z06, 1 1999 Camaro SS with h/c package and 200 shot. with the exception of the three IS300 in the group, you are more than welcome to show what your little car can do to our american muscle. pm me when you are ready. you have three weeks to come over. the offer expires on November 24th. i will give you $150 gas money when you come here.

terms:
all cars will have to use pump gas. no race gas.
no racing slicks.

OT:
I'm wondering if this could happen or not. Wednesdays vs Saturdays. 24th Nov is on Fri, so I guess V8 killer has got the chance?

[SNAKE V6]

*n2knee:

Then what's the most reliable report or publication I/we can use to "aid" us in making a decision about buying a certain car for example? Especially with regards to reliability statistics and such? Ask everyone who owns one marque about there cars? There are organizations that do that survey. Like I said they do scientific methods in performing such tests. Yes in the end they can be biased, but aren't we all are? It's still the driver's point of view that matters.

I am not saying that American cars are garbage cans on 4 wheels, I am just saying what my view is, based on what I've read and experienced. Nor am I trying to convince anyone to take my point, so no, I am not even trying to.

You're the one whose trying so hard to convince when your the one who keeps on quoting me in the first place.

It's VS. and I bet my money on the Japs pound per pound, on economy, reliability, handling. Why are you so "bent" about it?

Taking a side is not stupid. Not knowing where you are is.

[balmo]

ako preference ko eh japanese sports cars. pero give me at free track day to infinieon, laguna seca (mmm...), o kahit buttonwillow, ill drive any car you give me, be it a corvette or skyline.

kung may pera ako, i would probably consider a 350z, ganda!