Is resale value really that important?

[niky]

You can't buy a Prius engine secondhand. Toyota buys back Priuses once past a certain sell-by date. Plus, the value of the Prius powertrain (if you could get one secondhand) would be about 300k to 400k pesos.

That's a ridiculous assertion, though. All car manufacturers make their platforms flexible to accomodate different engines... hence the 1.1, 1.4 and 1.5 CRDi Getz.

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As for fuel efficiency, that depends. In general, Toyota and Honda have the most fuel efficient engines per pound of displacement. But a Picanto isn't a ghastly gas guzzler. You can still get 20 km/l. Of course, it all boils down to the driver and the situation. I'm still trying to find out the methodology used for the DOE runs. A parallel run using different drivers is bound to give inaccurate results (a difference of up to 5-10 km/l, as we've seen in Honda's eco-runs)... and very short runs can offer misleading fuel usage results.

You see, there's the trap that most others fall into... the "sabi-sabi" and age-old wisdom of older drivers.

These are the same drivers that encourage you to idle your engines forever to let the carburators warm up (eh? What's fuel injection?), these are the same people who used to say Japanese engines are junk and will never be as reliable as good old, low-revving V8s.

R&E uses Toyotas because they've always done so. Many companies do simply because in the perception of their bosses, that's the way to go.

I'm not saying Toyotas are bad. They're reasonably dependable. But these perceptions are based on information and experiences from many years ago... back when Hyundai was still selling cars like the Excel. Back when Hyundai's quality made Protons seem like a good thing. Back when they were only using licensed technology, and the most we saw of Korean cars here were truly horrible secondhand grey imports. Things change.

I'm not telling you to go out now and buy a Hyundai or Kia. But to hold judgement until you see how the new cars perform or have firsthand experience of such.

Ten years ago, would I have advised my Mom to get a Starex (like I'm doing now?)...? No way. I would've said: Let's stick to a Japanese car. Likewise, would I have bought a Mazda 323 / Ford Lynx? Naaah. But over time, and with research, I concluded: These vehicles are not perfect, but for our usage, they're not bad. I've had bad experiences in the past with Mazdas, but over 65,000 kms, the Lynx hasn't given me any more problems than a Corolla or Sentra of the same age (the Sentra gave more electronic problems and suspension problems, actually... and my cousin's Corolla with the same mileage run in similar conditions needed new shocks).

From the "sabi-sabi" of others, my fenders should have rusted away by now... my shocks should've given up the ghost (they're softer than when new, but still more controlled than the shocks on my old Nissan at 40k kms), my engine should've blown to bits, my bushings should all be gone... blah blah blah. I know I've been a staunch defender of this car, but I'm not immune to the "sabi-sabi", so each 5k kms that go by without problems is a pleasant surprise. In fact, I was surprised when I found loose trim on the dashboard after all this time, because the car has been so solid (the dash trim on the Exalta fell out after 50k kms).

If you want a Vios, go ahead. It's actually a pretty practical choice. But base it on sober, objective analysis of data regarding the actual cars you are buying rather than relying on word-of-mouth about cars that none of these carmakers actually make anymore.

[car.talk]

It is really important po talaga. Lalo na ngaun na ang daming daming models na ang mga lumalabas.. Pag korean Cars kc, they always think na low class lang.. "SIRAIN" kaya they look forward lagi kung ano ang magiging appraisal ng Car mo when time come na gusto mo na magpalit.

Ang ganda ng Hyundai TUCSON at kia SOrento hanep sa porma!

[mbeige]

Some cars truly target JD Powers & Associates like a marketing strategy. If you know they scored good there, you'll probably buy more from them right?

Resale value isn't everything though. For one if you were the buyer, of course you'd want to pay less right? If you were to buy a cheap Toyota the owner wants to get rid off the soonest, then you've got a deal right?

But look at it this way, if that same unit was priced much more, and if it was a common car, madali lang makahanap ng alternate car to buy at a lower price right? If you're not particular with small details, then any car would do as long as it satisfies your criteria and gets the job done.

Some people really do care for their cars, and it takes one to know one when buying for 2nd hand cars. So if you know what you're looking for, and you know the unit is in great shape to start with, then by all means pay the asking price. But like I said above, if you don't really care about that part, and just want good, reliable and fuel efficient transportation, then look around more. Maybe you could find a better deal somewhere else.

So it all depends on a lot of factors too like popularity ng car in question. In the end, resale value is only important for the seller. Finding the right buyer is another matter. Of course there are exceptions like when you really have to get rid of a car, if you're really desperate, you'll probably just sell it to the first buyer so long as you get your minimum asking price.

[MAXBUWAYA]

even taxi drivers i asked do not recommend kia's .. i expect a different answer but they really don't trust kia's or any korean cars.. i always get that same answer..

Ok so how about asking them rules and laws of our road?




Cmon' A taxi driver? if he is a mechanic pwede pa

[mike01]

Finding the right buyer is another matter. Of course there are exceptions like when you really have to get rid of a car, if you're really desperate, you'll probably just sell it to the first buyer so long as you get your minimum asking price.

just to clarify.. a car's resell value is according the the 'demand'.. the more buyer for a car the higher the resell value is..

you have to understand first, why does the used car have more demand? from there you will understand why the car is worth keeping for a longer period of time..than a car with less demand..

so in essence.. a high resale value means longer usage.. longer usage translates to more economy and more value for money.. you could use a low depreciation car that you bought brand new for 20 years (see those 87 box type lancers, and corolla dx on the streets?) before you might need to junk it.. so pwede mo pa sya ipamana sa anak mo..

i have yet to see a 20 year old korean car running on the streets..

[mike01]

think about it..

a 20 year-old 87 lancer box type sells for around 80k when this has sold during its time brand new for a little over 100k.. its like losing nothing..

and compare that with a 10 year old kia pride that sells for around 70k. with a brand new purchase price of over 200k during its time..

[rusem]

lets keep in mind that a car that we buy is not really ours.. parang inarkila lang natin yan.. pero nagdeposit tayo ng pera, which after we use the car pwede na din natin ilipat sa iba at makuha natin yung deposit na pera natin..

so in essence ASSET yan..it goes to our asset column..

di mo masabi na forever mo magagamit yang kotse na nabili mo.. pano kung nalipat ka ng trabaho sa ibang bansa o sa malayong probinsya? o nangailangan ka ng pera? so dyan papasok yung resale value nung kotse.. para makuha mo uli yung pera na na deposit mo..

dude a car is never an asset unless you use it for bussiness (taxi, shuttle service). if for personal use, it definitely should be in your liability column... no ifs no buts... and you'll never recover the initial cost of your purchase.

[mike01]

dude a car is never an asset unless you use it for bussiness (taxi, shuttle service). if for personal use, it definitely should be in your liability column... no ifs no buts... and you'll never recover the initial cost of your purchase.

mukhang idol mo si colayco at si kiyosaki ah..hehehe..

ang tinutukoy mo e income generating asset.. ikaw naman oh..



ang tinutukoy kong asset is based on accounting principle.. andami palang liability ng bangko kase andami nilang narerematang kotse??

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mukhang nasa maling thread tayo.. dun ata tayo dapat sa usapang financial matters..

[tylerdude]

i have yet to see a 20 year old korean car running on the streets..

wala pa naman talaga kasi mga kia at hyundai nung mga 80's kaya wala ka talagang makikita na 20 year old car sa kalye. actually, when these korean car makers started, their cars are not as durable compared to its japanese counterparts. shempre, may learning curve yan. but during the recent years, ang laki na ng improvement ng quality and finish ng mga hyundai and kia so i think people should consider them as major competitors in the market.

[///MPower]

They may be well-built and good value, but when it comes down to it, that means nothing for its resale value.

The market determines resale value, as someone said earlier. If everyone thinks Kias suck, whether they do or not, the resale value is going to be low.

[oldblue]

doublee post

[oldblue]

lets keep in mind that a car that we buy is not really ours.. parang inarkila lang natin yan..

a car that I bought hindi pa sa'kin ... putsa kawawa talaga pala ako pag bumili ng tsikot pinag-ipunan ko na, binayaran ko tapos nde pa din akin. sakit naman

if I will follow that reasoning pati pala cellphone, computer, bahay, tv, dvd na puwede ko ibenta after, hindi pa din akin.

so ang akin lang eh damit, sinturon, t-shirt, sapatos kasi hindi na nabebenta yun

[Lucius]

a car that I bought hindi pa sa'kin ... putsa kawawa talaga pala ako pag bumili ng tsikot pinag-ipunan ko na, binayaran ko tapos nde pa din akin. sakit naman

if I will follow that reasoning pati pala cellphone, computer, bahay, tv, dvd na puwede ko ibenta after, hindi pa din akin.

so ang akin lang eh damit, sinturon, t-shirt, sapatos kasi hindi na nabebenta yun

Hahahaha nde bro pwede pa sa mga ukay ukay daw hehehe so inarkila lang pala natin din un. Underwear lang matira satin.

Lam nyo depende na sa tao yan. Kung madaming pera / worth buying yung auto then resale value is not an issue.

Pero kung ikaw yung type na matipid, and nangangaylangan ng pera, eh wag ka na lang bumili ng auto or mag-rent a car ka na lang.

Dito yata satin wala kasing lease (BMW lang yata meron) from the car dealers eh unlike sa states . Pano satin kasi ang impression either staged carnap or ma-carnap or di alagaan kasi di naman sa kanila.

[oldblue]

just to clarify.. a car's resell value is according the the 'demand'.. the more buyer for a car the higher the resell value is..

but you do have to keep in mind, pag-oversupply ang car with high demand, quits din yan. baba din presyo


ang alam kung puwede sa case mo eh mga paintings dun sa megamall, but Toyota's dami 2nd hand ngaun

[LexTer]

a car that I bought hindi pa sa'kin ... putsa kawawa talaga pala ako pag bumili ng tsikot pinag-ipunan ko na, binayaran ko tapos nde pa din akin. sakit naman

if I will follow that reasoning pati pala cellphone, computer, bahay, tv, dvd na puwede ko ibenta after, hindi pa din akin.

so ang akin lang eh damit, sinturon, t-shirt, sapatos kasi hindi na nabebenta yun

hahahaha. sir pwede pa ibenta yan. so di din sayo yan!

[Memphis Raines]

Buy a soon to be classic Ferrari, Porsche, Pantera, etc (whichever sports car you fancy).

Restore it, dump money on it, drive it on weekends.

Keep it for so many years. Enjoy it.

Should you decide, sell it once its value has appraised due to its classic status. Then with the money you've earned, buy a different sports car but in much better shape, and keep it for good. Spend the rest of your money on another sports car

Not a bad idea

[froshie1]

OT: list ng korean cars na may matataas na milleage

http://www.thehyway.com/highmile.htm

[jaspi11]

Hahahaha nde bro pwede pa sa mga ukay ukay daw hehehe so inarkila lang pala natin din un. Underwear lang matira satin.

Lam nyo depende na sa tao yan. Kung madaming pera / worth buying yung auto then resale value is not an issue.

Pero kung ikaw yung type na matipid, and nangangaylangan ng pera, eh wag ka na lang bumili ng auto or mag-rent a car ka na lang.

Dito yata satin wala kasing lease (BMW lang yata meron) from the car dealers eh unlike sa states . Pano satin kasi ang impression either staged carnap or ma-carnap or di alagaan kasi di naman sa kanila.

pati underwear meron din sa ukay ukay...napanood ko sa tv si ukay ukay king nakabili ng underwear worth 5 pesos..kaya di pa din sa yo underwear mo.he he he

[cardo]

take a look at businesses and corporations who depend on cars for their business (taxi's, driving schools etc)..

do they use kia's or hyundai's?

True, most use more popular brands. However, it may also be true that these vendors who provide logistical services got a more desirable fleet package from one brand/delear than the other

[cardo]

That's a 460k Kia against a 550k Toyota. The 500k Kia is AT... which isn't available on the lower end Vios anymore.

Korean cars have a low resale value based on previous experience with older Korean models, which were, truthfully, pretty woeful. The JDPowers survey is based on reviews of cars made in 2003, though... not 2006... so any reliability change from new vehicles and improvements won't show up on the long term survey till 2010.

Also, JDPowers rates problems based on survey results, not actual jobs performed. These surveys are, at best, subjective, and are fraught with problems. Thus, they serve as a general guide... 136 problems per 100 vehicles can mean either 136 gas tanks falling out or 136 stuck windows. Do they actually tell you which it is?

The difference in that survey between the winners and the Koreans is about 2 problems per car over three years. Non-specific. This includes stuck windows, drained batteries, busted shocks, etcetera. It could even go as far as "harsh ride" = 1 problem.

That's why German luxury cars often land low on the survey... they have so many electronic toys that one or two of them are bound to go haywire. "Can't use I-Drive because I can't understand it..." = 1 problem

Note JDPowers' homepage... their Top 5 Midsize cars in terms of reliability (this is long term, for secondhand cars...) has the Toyota Camry at #4... surrounded by American cars... the types usually found in low-spec for fleet sales... less kit... less to break.

Also, JDPowers is a mail-in survey, and from what I've heard, it's a hellishly long and complicated one. Most people who go to all that trouble to write about their cars have a bone to pick, thus, many of the respondents are likely to have had problems and want to vent out their frustration.

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Thus, there is some truth and some untruth in JDPowers. But from what the surveys show, the difference between the best and the worst isn't that terribly big.

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I pointed out a more accurate way of gauging vehicle reliability here:
http://tsikot.yehey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34711

While it's also flawed, Warranty Direct's coverage of 450,000 vehicles is more comprehensive than JDPower's 47,000 partial respondents... and it covers cars from 3 to 9 years of age. Furthermore, it tracks mechanical failures covered by warranty (thus, not ostensibly due to wear-and-tear or user-bias). Kia placed fifth.

And take note... 3 to 9 years. This includes the years that Hyundai sold cars with the crappy first generation all-Korean engines... not the more modern plants they use now.

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Of course, Land Rover placed last in both studies. Kinda depressing for them, huh? :hysterical:

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Regarding resale values... the Picanto started at 325k. You can get a first year Picanto for 350k. That's 100%+ resale... pretty good, right? :hysterical:

Kias and Hyundais are high-priced because they're all CBU. Many Japanese manufacturers (including Toyota) enjoy tax breaks on their lower-priced vehicles due to local assembly. That Kia and Hyundai are competitive in price (and in some cases, cheaper) spec-for-spec indicates how hungry they are for market share.

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Resale value isn't entirely logical. It's based on perceived value, prejudice, bias, real-world reliability issues, perceived reliability issues, fuel economy and fuel bias (diesel Koreans have excellent resale value, by the way... just because they're diesel).

I don't normally buy cars on resale value alone. If I did, I'd be buying L300s. Resale value of cars with safety equipment, a full-load of toys and nice seats isn't as good as the resale value of the base models of the same car. My sweet-driving and sweet-riding sedan will never get me as much secondhand value as my AUV (which is why it's the AUV we're selling). In the end, you choose to pay what you pay for your vehicle just for the privelege of actually using it.

What was said previously, about it being ridiculous to not use a car to keep its resale value up is kind of where I'm at. Why bother to buy a brand new car, use it only once a week for two years, and lose over a quarter million pesos in resale on it, anyway? That's not an investment or an asset, that's just a waste of money. You lose three thousand pesos for each day of driving. If that's the way people like to go, it makes more sense to buy a secondhand Jeepney and put the rest of the money in a time-deposit account... that's a smarter choice than buying a Toyota or a Hyundai.

EDIT: We're in the process of getting a new SUV. We're leaning towards the Hyundai Santa Fe. Why? While the possibility (possibility only... so far, Santa Fes seem to hold their value terribly well) of losing an extra 100,000 pesos in resale value versus a Fortuner 3.0 is daunting, I think that paying an extra 1 peso per kilometer (we often do 100,000 kms within two to three years) is worth the better ride, better fuel efficiency, and the general niceness of the car. Why don't we get something cheaper? Well... that's our problem...

This is true and I agree with this bloke

There are reputable sites out there, which publish credible info. These can be used as our reference for our personal use, and to generally validate the opinions we have gathered from fellow enthusiasts as well. Afterwards, we sum it up and align it to our goals and judge/decide accordingly - if we still want to buy brand A or brand B bec. it has a good review from fellow users, from independent institutions(like J.D. power, NHTSA) and if it still meets our personal goals(of looks, budget, ride, resale etc). There is no right or wrong opinion/decision here since we all have different priorities in life. Its not like we all have the same budget, and requirements in a car