audio set-up for beginners [continued]

[monty_GTV]

hello sir jhnkvn, anything can you say about BeFit? you might have auditioned one with it. thanks

[jhnkvn]

hello sir jhnkvn, anything can you say about BeFit? you might have auditioned one with it. thanks

Since you're reading this, I might as well give you an entire overview on the brand and the engineering behind it.

Bewith Japan is one of the few remaining "high-end" brands in audio. Many Japanese "high-end" are already eaten up by bigger companies and holding companies - most famous is probably Nakamichi which supplied OEM Lexus LS stereo before. If I'll have my take, they're expensive for the price. Good thing that the BeFIT is their entry-level answer (Php50,000) to the Philippine market, once you go up to their Accurate and Confidence series, those "packages" comes with a hefty price tag of P300,000 and sub-Php1million. The most expensive Bewith setup belongs to Jerico who is a fellow Team Mickey member who spent Php2 million upwards on his Bewith setup (heck, subwoofers alone costs 90k for two 8/10 inchers).

The magic of their Confidence and Accurate series is their simplicity -- 2" wide-band tweeter and 6 1/2" midbass. The 2" tweeter is housed in an egg-shaped pod (much like my aluminum pods), the acoustic reason for this is for diffusion that makes the tweeter "disappear" while you enjoy the music. A great example of who uses pod diffusion is the diamond tweeter of the Php2-7million B&W Series 800 loudspeakers. Notice how they gradually taper the back of the tweeter? That's for diffusion purposes. Continuing on, the 6.5" midbass needs to be mounted in a ported box that is tuned quite low (a safe answer is 50hz) hence installation on the door panel is a requirement.

If you dig further in, you'll notice that their entire lineup: tweeter, midbass, subwoofer looks similar with the only difference is the size. What this does is that it reduces phase problems to a minimum and if you're in a car, you're mainly battling phase issues because of the distance of the drivers from one another. If you're rather keen on the eye and is exposed to the hi-fi industry, you'll notice that Dynaudio and Focal JMLab's flagship offerings are also shaped similarly.

So the magic of Bewith is really simply because it's (1) simple - as it uses two drivers rather than three and it forces the user to (2) do extensive modifications - most especially in the door panel where a ported design is a must. And because the ported design is housed in a pretty sturdy MDF board, resonance is kept at a minimum. Coupled with the 50hz port, I would define the midbass as the star of the show giving any user top-notch bass.

As much as I love Bewith, I'm not a believer of their BeFIT. Sure, it has a soft-domed tweeter and still a rock-solid midbass but there's more value-for-money offerings out there. For example, I love the industry's recent shift to wideband tweeters this is why I love Dominations ES62 Sinatra priced at around Php29k. Having a driver that plays 400hz and above which you can simply mount on the windshield gives immense benefits to the user because it raises the soundstage to nearer that of ear-level rather than the door-level midbass.

Remember though, the magic of car audio starts when you have a competent head unit. Get a suitable head unit with tuning features (T/A, EQ, etc.) and you're set. So remember, head unit first then speakers.

If people are wondering which BeFIT I have heard in the past, I'd say one of the better people who got it "right" was J. Hermano and his Toyota 86 which has a BeFIT powered by the HU. And if you're scratching your head who he is, he's one of the Philippines' best sound engineers so sound is his profession. For one, he's the one who designed Shangri-La's mall cinemas :naughty2:

[monty_GTV]

Since you're reading this, I might as well give you an entire overview on the brand and the engineering behind it.

Bewith Japan is one of the few remaining "high-end" brands in audio. Many Japanese "high-end" are already eaten up by bigger companies and holding companies - most famous is probably Nakamichi which supplied OEM Lexus LS stereo before. If I'll have my take, they're expensive for the price. Good thing that the BeFIT is their entry-level answer (Php50,000) to the Philippine market, once you go up to their Accurate and Confidence series, those "packages" comes with a hefty price tag of P300,000 and sub-Php1million. The most expensive Bewith setup belongs to Jerico who is a fellow Team Mickey member who spent Php2 million upwards on his Bewith setup (heck, subwoofers alone costs 90k for two 8/10 inchers).

The magic of their Confidence and Accurate series is their simplicity -- 2" wide-band tweeter and 6 1/2" midbass. The 2" tweeter is housed in an egg-shaped pod (much like my aluminum pods), the acoustic reason for this is for diffusion that makes the tweeter "disappear" while you enjoy the music. A great example of who uses pod diffusion is the diamond tweeter of the Php2-7million B&W Series 800 loudspeakers. Notice how they gradually taper the back of the tweeter? That's for diffusion purposes. Continuing on, the 6.5" midbass needs to be mounted in a ported box that is tuned quite low (a safe answer is 50hz) hence installation on the door panel is a requirement.

If you dig further in, you'll notice that their entire lineup: tweeter, midbass, subwoofer looks similar with the only difference is the size. What this does is that it reduces phase problems to a minimum and if you're in a car, you're mainly battling phase issues because of the distance of the drivers from one another. If you're rather keen on the eye and is exposed to the hi-fi industry, you'll notice that Dynaudio and Focal JMLab's flagship offerings are also shaped similarly.

So the magic of Bewith is really simply because it's (1) simple - as it uses two drivers rather than three and it forces the user to (2) do extensive modifications - most especially in the door panel where a ported design is a must. And because the ported design is housed in a pretty sturdy MDF board, resonance is kept at a minimum. Coupled with the 50hz port, I would define the midbass as the star of the show giving any user top-notch bass.

As much as I love Bewith, I'm not a believer of their BeFIT. Sure, it has a soft-domed tweeter and still a rock-solid midbass but there's more value-for-money offerings out there. For example, I love the industry's recent shift to wideband tweeters this is why I love Dominations ES62 Sinatra priced at around Php29k. Having a driver that plays 400hz and above which you can simply mount on the windshield gives immense benefits to the user because it raises the soundstage to nearer that of ear-level rather than the door-level midbass.

Remember though, the magic of car audio starts when you have a competent head unit. Get a suitable head unit with tuning features (T/A, EQ, etc.) and you're set. So remember, head unit first then speakers.

If people are wondering which BeFIT I have heard in the past, I'd say one of the better people who got it "right" was J. Hermano and his Toyota 86 which has a BeFIT powered by the HU. And if you're scratching your head who he is, he's one of the Philippines' best sound engineers so sound is his profession. For one, he's the one who designed Shangri-La's mall cinemas :naughty2:

thanks a lot sir jhnkvn for the complete overview of the product. well said sir

[brooom]

Tnx for the reply sir jhnkvn. Ang nabili ko pong set up is
HU: pioneer 4450bt
Speaker: Cadence cvlm64n raw driver
tweeter: Cadence cvlt 35n
Ampli: kinetic kd75.4 (pansamantala)
Am I having a good start in LnC? kaya kaya ng ampli ko ang set up na to? ano marecommend niyo po na ampli below 10k budget? tnx po

[Troy Inovero]

Sir jhnkvn ano po ang masasabi nyo sa Alpine CDA-117E? Yun po kasi ang gusto kong bilhin na HU. Gusto ko po kasing gumanda yung boses e.

My current setup is:
Seps: Focal IS 165
Coaxial: Focal IC 165
Ampli: Sound Magus 160.4
Sub: Digital Designs 10"

c/o Mickey's Autosound

[Balikpinoy]

Anybody know a shop that carries these locally?

http://www.amazon.com/Metra-40-HD21-.../dp/B003R7KYTK

[brooom]

sir meron ata niyan sa banawe.

[Balikpinoy]

sir meron ata niyan sa banawe.

Alam mo ba name ng shop?

[beni23]

Sir jhnkvn ano po ang masasabi nyo sa Alpine CDA-117E? Yun po kasi ang gusto kong bilhin na HU. Gusto ko po kasing gumanda yung boses e.

My current setup is:
Seps: Focal IS 165
Coaxial: Focal IC 165
Ampli: Sound Magus 160.4
Sub: Digital Designs 10"

c/o Mickey's Autosound

Ganda pala ng setup mo bro.


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[Troy Inovero]

Ganda pala ng setup mo bro.


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Mukha lang maganda, hehe.
Kulang pa ng Head Unit e, para gumanda yung boses. :D

[jhnkvn]

Sir jhnkvn ano po ang masasabi nyo sa Alpine CDA-117E? Yun po kasi ang gusto kong bilhin na HU. Gusto ko po kasing gumanda yung boses e.

My current setup is:
Seps: Focal IS 165
Coaxial: Focal IC 165
Ampli: Sound Magus 160.4
Sub: Digital Designs 10"

c/o Mickey's Autosound

The CDA-117 is the successor of the famed CDA-9887. The only problem is the fact that you can't go 3-way full-active in the 117 as opposed to the 9887. To equal the 9887 in tuning features, you'll be needing the external H100 processor and that's like another 10 grand. However, many say that the onboard sound of the 117 is superior to that of the 9887 and many people would appreciate the much-needed USB function nowadays.

But as you're running a 2-way system, the 117 fits you perfectly as long as you have no plans in going the 3-way route (ex. Focal Access 165A3 / Focal Polyglass VR3)

However, the CDA-117 already has a successor as of 2013. It's the CDA-137EBT (Alpine Electronics of Australia). It's not that widely distributed yet as I believe the distributor opts to limit supply para maubos muna inventory ng 117. However, it might be a good idea to go to Perfect Circle and purchase there directly. Should be at the same price of the 117.. only newer.

P.S. Err, I'm not sure on how Mickey adviced you but rear-fills are generally a no-no for us. It's because it makes tuning a whole lot difficult (and your headunit/117 won't be able to properly "tune" it. You need more channels for that like an Alpine H800 processor). So as advice, sell the rear-fills or use them on another car.

[crazy_boy]

im a newbie in audio set up. after reading the whole thread, it seems na ang dapat na unang gawin is to replace stock speakers and tunable HU.

the set up that i want is basic SQ only. i am not and dont have plans of joining competitions naman. i just want to have a more pleasurable sounding music during my drive to and from work. i also want to retain the OEM look of the tweeter pods and the speaker placement. i plan to start with good HU and budget seps and slowly upgrade if i want better sound next time.

so i am thinking of replacing my pioneer 3050ub HU and my stock front speakers and tweeter to Alpine 9887(used)/117(bnew)/the newer model and targa/kinetic KD6.

i want to hear the comments of the audio gurus if im headed to the right direction. i am considering the Kinetic KD6 cause i read in KAC that this is a copy of some high end brand daw and uses Bennic (?) capacitors/components? car is Fieldmaster pala. thanks!

[jhnkvn]

im a newbie in audio set up. after reading the whole thread, it seems na ang dapat na unang gawin is to replace stock speakers and tunable HU.

the set up that i want is basic SQ only. i am not and dont have plans of joining competitions naman. i just want to have a more pleasurable sounding music during my drive to and from work. i also want to retain the OEM look of the tweeter pods and the speaker placement. i plan to start with good HU and budget seps and slowly upgrade if i want better sound next time.

so i am thinking of replacing my pioneer 3050ub HU and my stock front speakers and tweeter to Alpine 9887(used)/117(bnew)/the newer model and targa/kinetic KD6.

i want to hear the comments of the audio gurus if im headed to the right direction. i am considering the Kinetic KD6 cause i read in KAC that this is a copy of some high end brand daw and uses Bennic (?) capacitors/components? car is Fieldmaster pala. thanks!

SQ is composed of three things: tonality, imaging, and soundstaging. You can get tonality easily, however imaging or the ability to pinpoint instruments and soundstaging or the ability to visualize the placement of musical instruments and vocalists in a music recording is not achievable unless you have a capable head unit with extensive tuning features at hand.

The thing is, your everyday consumer is not used to proper imaging and soundstaging and I myself am fine as long as I have good tonality. So I will first suggest you upgrade your separates, deaden your door, and amplify it before splurging on a good head unit. You see, having a good head unit is like having a great engine (think: Nissan's RB26 engine). Out of the box, it'll already be great. However, you need to take time in tuning it to get the most out of its potential. Problem now is that you'll need to find somebody who is competent enough to tune your setup and THAT is where you'll have difficulties.

Now forgive me because I love drawing analogies. I do think it helps people understand the concepts behind my walls-of-text.

Re: Kinetic KD6

Okay, to be frank, I'm not a fan of boogie (the distributor of Kinetik) of KAC. If you've followed his posts, I've been trying to shoot difficult questions at him and what he does is simply... ignore it or at best, post an answer that isn't really relevant to the question. This gives me the impression that he's a salesman.. not an engineer. Having Bennic capacitors isn't really relevant.. because it's like saying your car is now faster because it has Cosworth oil filter cover cap. Big names are useless unless it's actually put into practice. In the realm of audio, this means paying attention to the signal path and board design layout.

Want another example? McIntosh Audio is absolutely legendary in audio. You can purchase their amplifiers for around 300,000php from Mickey (who's the authorized distributor of products) and that's bordering on their cheap-range already. But if you open it up, you'll find rather... generic components inside. You'll see cheapo China/Taiwan/etc. capacitors and other internal mumbo-jumbo.. and this is all in a 300 grand amplifier! Yet, it sounds "godly" as many would say. Why? Because of excellent circuitry design.

Okay, if you didn't get that, I'll give another car analogy. Let's say you want to go fast and you have a Toyota Camry 2.4L engine. For the masses, they wouldn't really care if you throw the engine at the back of a Camry. For them, it's plenty fast from 0-100km/h compared to your Vios. However, for the more... uhh... extreme people, we'll be throwing it in the back of a Lotus and race it on a track. Same engine, different designs.

According to posts, the Kinetic KD6 is a rebranded speaker from MDS Sweden. Now I'm scratching my head on how you come to terms that it's a high-end brand (that's probably thanks to his extraordinary claims to persuade the general public) because it looks like an ordinary manufacturing facility to me. Want to know what differentiates your everyday company to a company that has their heart and soul into the industry?

Here's a true example of a high-end audio brand - Dynaudio: http://www.dynaudio.com/int/pdf/DYN_...ochure_INT.pdf. Notice the difference? Here you have your everyday marketing flowery words but it's backed up by real data from engineering. You'd hardly find any T/S parameters, FR tested response, and impedence graphs on any run of the mill audio company. Do you think Firland, MDS, Targa, etc. have them? Not really. But Focal JM-Labs, MicroPrecision, B&W, Scanspeaks, etc. have them.

[Quint]

I have a 25 year old car, and I think the HU needs changing. There's sound of popcorn in the front speakers, plus, the current set-up delivers a flat so-so sound. The HU also shots down when the volume is at high setting. Also, I checked the radio wiring of the car as I wanted to change how it was powered. Even with the keys out, it could be turned on, so I pulled out the radio and exchanged the two power wires (unswitched and switched), and with some success, I managed to put the power on position 2 or accessories. However, the clock would always reset every time I turned the keys, but the radio memory stayed unaffected. So now, I think I need a new HU.

Here are my preferences:
1. Should be able to drive all 4 speakers.
2. Should have a provision for subwoofer set-up
3. Should have equalizer function in order to make for easy tuning.
4. USB and Aux-in
5. Should be black and have amber lighting to match the dash

Objective: sound quality.

Honestly, there seems to be limited choices---Alpine, Pioneer, Kenwood, but still unsure on what to pick. I want a value-for-money set-up.

Would appreciate advise i.e. suggested set-up, shops to go to, etc. Thanks!

[crazy_boy]

SQ is composed of three things: tonality, imaging, and soundstaging. You can get tonality easily, however imaging or the ability to pinpoint instruments and soundstaging or the ability to visualize the placement of musical instruments and vocalists in a music recording is not achievable unless you have a capable head unit with extensive tuning features at hand.

The thing is, your everyday consumer is not used to proper imaging and soundstaging and I myself am fine as long as I have good tonality. So I will first suggest you upgrade your separates, deaden your door, and amplify it before splurging on a good head unit. You see, having a good head unit is like having a great engine (think: Nissan's RB26 engine). Out of the box, it'll already be great. However, you need to take time in tuning it to get the most out of its potential. Problem now is that you'll need to find somebody who is competent enough to tune your setup and THAT is where you'll have difficulties.

Now forgive me because I love drawing analogies. I do think it helps people understand the concepts behind my walls-of-text.

Re: Kinetic KD6

Okay, to be frank, I'm not a fan of boogie (the distributor of Kinetik) of KAC. If you've followed his posts, I've been trying to shoot difficult questions at him and what he does is simply... ignore it or at best, post an answer that isn't really relevant to the question. This gives me the impression that he's a salesman.. not an engineer. Having Bennic capacitors isn't really relevant.. because it's like saying your car is now faster because it has Cosworth oil filter cover cap. Big names are useless unless it's actually put into practice. In the realm of audio, this means paying attention to the signal path and board design layout.

Want another example? McIntosh Audio is absolutely legendary in audio. You can purchase their amplifiers for around 300,000php from Mickey (who's the authorized distributor of products) and that's bordering on their cheap-range already. But if you open it up, you'll find rather... generic components inside. You'll see cheapo China/Taiwan/etc. capacitors and other internal mumbo-jumbo.. and this is all in a 300 grand amplifier! Yet, it sounds "godly" as many would say. Why? Because of excellent circuitry design.

Okay, if you didn't get that, I'll give another car analogy. Let's say you want to go fast and you have a Toyota Camry 2.4L engine. For the masses, they wouldn't really care if you throw the engine at the back of a Camry. For them, it's plenty fast from 0-100km/h compared to your Vios. However, for the more... uhh... extreme people, we'll be throwing it in the back of a Lotus and race it on a track. Same engine, different designs.

According to posts, the Kinetic KD6 is a rebranded speaker from MDS Sweden. Now I'm scratching my head on how you come to terms that it's a high-end brand (that's probably thanks to his extraordinary claims to persuade the general public) because it looks like an ordinary manufacturing facility to me. Want to know what differentiates your everyday company to a company that has their heart and soul into the industry?

Here's a true example of a high-end audio brand - Dynaudio: http://www.dynaudio.com/int/pdf/DYN_...ochure_INT.pdf. Notice the difference? Here you have your everyday marketing flowery words but it's backed up by real data from engineering. You'd hardly find any T/S parameters, FR tested response, and impedence graphs on any run of the mill audio company. Do you think Firland, MDS, Targa, etc. have them? Not really. But Focal JM-Labs, MicroPrecision, B&W, Scanspeaks, etc. have them.

hi sir, thanks for your very detailed explanation.

what i am going to start with is with the replacement of separates and the tweeters. then deaden the front doors. when you say amplify, you mean adding an amplifier? I am just a newbie with ICE upgrades, this will be my first upgrade and i want to take time and appreciate each upgrade thats why i want slow upgrade muna hehe

i also read in your previous posts na ok lang na separates, HU, deaden front doors kahit wala pang amplifier?

re: kinetic, good thing i asked, hehe muntik na pala akong ma-sales talk.

[beni23]

Kinetic separates and amps? Diba battery ang kinetic? Peke yan. Haha.

[renzo_d10]

Beni, patulan ko na kaya yung Teac seps? Nakaka-enganyo ah. Hahaha. Or Nakamichi...

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[beni23]

Beni, patulan ko na kaya yung Teac seps? Nakaka-enganyo ah. Hahaha. Or Nakamichi...

Sent from my 3210 using Tapatalk HD Premium

Go na yan! Haha. Pero pakinggan mo muna kung meron sila pang-audition dun sa pagpapakabitan mo.

[JohnM]

Beni, patulan ko na kaya yung Teac seps? Nakaka-enganyo ah. Hahaha. Or Nakamichi...

Paano mo i-mount ang tweeters?

[renzo_d10]

^ Yun nga e. Iniisip ko seps or speakers nalang talaga.