audio set-up for beginners [continued]

[beni23]

Found one PB ASA600.4. Baka may interested sa AVT amplified sub ko. Here is the link. Hehe. AVT Amplified Sub Philippines - 4158118

[tigasin papa]

Thanks jhnkvn!
Yes, my car is a stock Crosswind XT 2010 I bought late August last year.
Any advice on good brands of Head Units so that I can search online or maybe its available here in KSA and cheaper.
Based on your estimate, Its good to know that I can still use the existing rear speakers. Am I correct?
For the V12 amplifier how much will it cost me? Sorry for asking too many things..I just want
to go to a shop prepared and a least have a little bit of knowhow.

Ang dami pala back-log na posts. I'll try to give my two cents na rin



If that's a stock Crosswind, change your headunit first. You don't need to pay out big bucks, somewhere around 5-6k would do. Pioneer has cornered this price range so go with them.

Using 20k as a reference, you now have 14-15k left. It's better to check for shops who do budget installs and avail of their packages. Why packages? Since these packages include miscellaneous expenses often set asided by the potential car audio newbie -- wiring, labor, installation

As for brands, I'll stick with Targa (I like their separates), JBL (GT5 seems like a very staple budget subwoofer), or Ryan Audio. An example of a break-down of expenses is:

Front Separates - Targa (4000~)
Rear Speakers - Stock
Subwoofer - JBL GT5 (2000~)
Amplifier - ???
Box, Wiring, Labor - 4000~

Sa amplifier ka maiipit. Most likely, if you aren't planning to upgrade any more, get a V12 amplifier ;) but if you can literally squeeze some more out of your budget, I would get something better.

Where is your general area? I might be able to recommend you a shop nearby.



Definitely Better. Sell the amplified subwoofer and get yourself an amplifier. If you can find a Powerbass ASA600.4 in the same price as a SM VS160.4, I would go for the Powerbass. It has better internal "guts" once you open it up. Afterwards, deaden your door so that your midbass could shine. Deadening is very important in car audio. If you were to choose between an amplifier or a deadening, I'll go for the deadening first. Afterwards, add in an actual subwoofer powered by an amplifier. A amplified sub will only get you so far in terms of bass.

If that's a Strada, you WILL have mounting issues with a subwoofer though. So better research first ;) go for slim subs (subwoofers that need minimal air enclosures to sound good) pare!




Wait, why are you limiting yourself to Focal amplifiers? Kindly state your budget.

The reason for this is that although Focal-JMLabs is possibly the most known brand in car audio, their Solid amplifier lineup isn't anything special. It's built like a tank, yes. But there are better amplifiers there for the money like Phoenix Gold amplifiers.

I haven't heard the FPP lineup yet. As this is fairly recently introduced (wala pa yan 1 year pare) but their FPS (Power Symmetric) lineup is pretty nice. Inside guts is excellent, build-quality is excellent, and it's the one who put Focal back in the amplifier world as a brand to reckon with.

But if I will really need to get between the two, I will also go for the Focal Solid 4 for the flexibility if gives. If not, snap up the Performance. What is your rear speakers pare? Personally, I would recommend just beefing up the fronts and just selling the rear speakers for more cash

[jhnkvn]

Thanks jhnkvn!
Yes, my car is a stock Crosswind XT 2010 I bought late August last year.
Any advice on good brands of Head Units so that I can search online or maybe its available here in KSA and cheaper.
Based on your estimate, Its good to know that I can still use the existing rear speakers. Am I correct?
For the V12 amplifier how much will it cost me? Sorry for asking too many things..I just want
to go to a shop prepared and a least have a little bit of knowhow.

In the Philippines, Pioneer has cornered the market as I've said. So you're 99% probably going for a Pioneer headunit. If you're overseas, reputed head unit manufacturers are: Pioneer, Alpine, Kenwood, Eclipse, and some other that I forgot.

Yes, you can always use your rear speakers. Those who are purely SQ enthusiasts would still prefer a frontstage-only sound direction (rear speakers off) due to a very simple analogy: when you're in a concert, where is the singer? In front. Not at the back, not on your right, at front. We're merely concentrating on the "front-stage" since it's where you sit -- in the driver's seat.

For a V12 amplifier, madami eh. You have the favorite MRV-F705, F805, NV905, etc. Think of them as generic amplifiers. The good thing is that they won't cost too much. Something like 2-4k. On the downside, expect the usual negatives about generics -- false marketing and stuff. For example, you'd see power ratings of 500W x 4 when in fact it's only around 50Wx4. Heck, last time an engineering friend of my brother tried to actually test one of these the box had a 5000W power rating but it's only giving out a shy power of 200W.

For what it's worth, most car audio shops won't scam you. Especially in Banawe since their reputation is on the line. Also consider visiting Jeff Tan (Araneta Car Accessories) since he's the go-to-guy for budget installs.

[The Truth]

Wait, why are you limiting yourself to Focal amplifiers? Kindly state your budget.

The reason for this is that although Focal-JMLabs is possibly the most known brand in car audio, their Solid amplifier lineup isn't anything special. It's built like a tank, yes. But there are better amplifiers there for the money like Phoenix Gold amplifiers.

I haven't heard the FPP lineup yet. As this is fairly recently introduced (wala pa yan 1 year pare) but their FPS (Power Symmetric) lineup is pretty nice. Inside guts is excellent, build-quality is excellent, and it's the one who put Focal back in the amplifier world as a brand to reckon with.

But if I will really need to get between the two, I will also go for the Focal Solid 4 for the flexibility if gives. If not, snap up the Performance. What is your rear speakers pare? Personally, I would recommend just beefing up the fronts and just selling the rear speakers for more cash

maybe its the close family ties with the speakers?
--> Front seps are 2 way Focal Polyglass V2 165 6" (75 RMS)
Rear stage are Focal Polyglass V1 165 6" coaxial speakers (70 RMS)

also looking into Audison's SR 4 65RMS, this one is quite bulky (8.5" width, 15" lenght)
and Rockford's PUNCH P400 amps 50RMS (8" width, 13" lenght)
while the Focal solid 4 is rated at 75RMS (12" long and 8" wide)

[jhnkvn]

maybe its the close family ties with the speakers?
--> Front seps are 2 way Focal Polyglass V2 165 6" (75 RMS)
Rear stage are Focal Polyglass V1 165 6" coaxial speakers (70 RMS)

also looking into Audison's SR 4 65RMS, this one is quite bulky (8.5" width, 15" lenght)
and Rockford's PUNCH P400 amps 50RMS (8" width, 13" lenght)
while the Focal solid 4 is rated at 75RMS (12" long and 8" wide)

Well, check your inbox I just sent a PM.

If those three are your choices. I'd go with either the Audison or the Focals. I like the Audison SR better but it isn't that big to warrant the beauty of an "all Focal" setup. I'd stay away from the Rockford Punch.. the only RF I'll touch is their Power lineup. But those costs at least 20k.

[The Truth]

Well, check your inbox I just sent a PM.

If those three are your choices. I'd go with either the Audison or the Focals. I like the Audison SR better but it isn't that big to warrant the beauty of an "all Focal" setup. I'd stay away from the Rockford Punch.. the only RF I'll touch is their Power lineup. But those costs at least 20k.

So youre basically saying Go for the Audison for performace and Go with the Focal for aesthetics..

I would'nt mind pairing Focal Speakers with Audison Amps since they usually go side by side, that's as far as I know .
Focal manufactures excellent speakers and good amps ; Audison makes excellent amplifiers and average speakers -- as most "experts" say.

how about DB Drive Okur a5's amplifiers? Soundstream's Trx or Picasso amps? DLS performance 4 channels?
or should I push the budget up a notch and go to the next level -- Audison LRx 4.5 seems nice

[jhnkvn]

Dropped by my installer (Mickey Pascual of Mickey's Autosounds) as part of my routine weekly tambay-at-the-shop when I chanced upon a Montero with a Focal FPP 5-channel amplifier. From the looks of it, feels very solid and after asking Mickey for his opinion, excellent naman daw feedback.

Focal manufacturers excellent speakers.. and now excellent amplifiers with their FPS lineup. How good is their Focal Power Symmetric? Probably Genesis Series III levels of quality and attention-to-detail. I'm not a fan of the design of the amplifiers though.
Audison/Hertz of Electtomedia is also a giant in the industry (Focal-JMLabs is still bigger though). Excellent amplifiers? Yes. Average speakers? If you check out their top-of-the-line Thesis lineup, that's very much false. You could go full-digital with Thesis component sets and Thesis amplifiers. Of course, with amplifiers costing 70k upwards much like McIntosh, you're buying exoticness.

For amplifiers, as much as possible I want to see what's inside. Whether their internal components is made from quality capacitors, power supplies, terminals, etc. If I can't, I refer to their specification sheet. I look at two things really: RMS Power at 4-ohms and who's the manufacturer. Another minor parameter I look at is S/N ratio which pretty much describes how "clean" the amplifier is. What I don't like is how other manufacturers "bend" or falsify their S/N ratio as there's no "required" standard for it unless it's CEA certified. For example, Powerbass ASA600.4 has a >95dB in their S/N while Rockford Fosgate T600-4 has >85dB. Would you believe Powerbass is cleaner than Rockford's Power series? Hell no. (For what it's worth, my Xtants are rated >100dB, McIntosh has a >105dB, and the Focal FPS is >95dB. Then again, the Audison LRx is >105dB... who to believe? dunno :D)

Soundstream TRX is uncommon but it's a goodie naman. If you're the type who changes amplifiers every decade or so, best get a rock solid amplifier that you know won't give up on you. I'd get DLS Performance amplifiers over Focal Solid ANYDAY! The Audison LRx is very nice, but do note that SoundXperience (exclusive distributor of Audison/Hertz in Philippines) has closed shop in Mayon. So getting aftermarket support would be a pain.

As for my amplifiers, I'm running two Xtants 2-channel. These date back in 1995, discontinued in 1997, and the company is pretty much nonexistent now. Throw in the fact that these are pre-Mitek (Mitek acquired Xtant to be their hi-end lineup sometime in 2000, from then on Xtant produced crappy amplifiers) models with the same engineers as the PPI Art series and JL Slash amps, you know have a glimpse on how much I covet my babies I also have a DLS Ultimate A6 as my mono-amp and I'm currently in the market for an A4 for the midbass (going full-active na rin soon). Why DLS Ultimate amplifiers? Kasi mura sila secondhand (you can find A4s at 22k-30k) and they're still a goodie. That's one of the pros for being "old" in the market.

[The Truth]

Dropped by my installer (Mickey Pascual of Mickey's Autosounds) as part of my routine weekly tambay-at-the-shop when I chanced upon a Montero with a Focal FPP 5-channel amplifier. From the looks of it, feels very solid and after asking Mickey for his opinion, excellent naman daw feedback.

Focal manufacturers excellent speakers.. and now excellent amplifiers with their FPS lineup. How good is their Focal Power Symmetric? Probably Genesis Series III levels of quality and attention-to-detail. I'm not a fan of the design of the amplifiers though.
Audison/Hertz of Electtomedia is also a giant in the industry (Focal-JMLabs is still bigger though). Excellent amplifiers? Yes. Average speakers? If you check out their top-of-the-line Thesis lineup, that's very much false. You could go full-digital with Thesis component sets and Thesis amplifiers. Of course, with amplifiers costing 70k upwards much like McIntosh, you're buying exoticness.


Soundstream TRX is uncommon but it's a goodie naman. If you're the type who changes amplifiers every decade or so, best get a rock solid amplifier that you know won't give up on you. I'd get DLS Performance amplifiers over Focal Solid ANYDAY! The Audison LRx is very nice, but do note that SoundXperience (exclusive distributor of Audison/Hertz in Philippines) has closed shop in Mayon. So getting aftermarket support would be a pain.

the Focal solid amps are out of the picture now, aside from being outdated they were released around 2008 I think,
they are also about to be discontinued.

as for the Audison Srx 4 amplifier, their lower rating at 65w * 4ohms was their fall for me.
The Lrx 4.5 got my attention a little bit, (75w of reputable clean power is close to what I am looking for)
that is until I found out that the Focal Power Performance amp cost about the same as the Srx 4! -- Php23k

rated at 90w rms * 4 ohms the Focal FPP 4100 is the chosen one for my system,
pair it with high grade cables and it should be smooth sailing power from the get go!
The FPP 5 channel from the Montero you saw obviously supplies the same type of power as the FPP 4
excellent naman daw yung feed back Dba? so time for thinking is over, time for installing is now hehe

[The Truth]

Finally got the first few tracks to go through the just installed Focal FPP 4100 amp last night.. not a single hiccup

after a last minute mulling among the three amps which are identical in price.. conclusion wass speaker family comes first.
-Rockford's "top end" Power Series, T400 60w
-Audison's "entry level" SR Series, Sr4 65w
-& Focal's "middle of the pack" Performance line, FPP4 90w

I wonder if it sounds better with 3-way Polykevlars (165krx3) --> libre mangarap hehe
yung Utopia Be N.7 3way seps? kalokohan na yun, Php 200,000? kahit sa panaginip hindi realistic eh
It costs twice as much as my entire sound setup.

* jhnkvn -- I did consider the M475 that you recommended btw, but the info was that its more geared towards loudness rather than SQ.

[jhnkvn]

Actually, for an amplifier to be gear towards loudness, you should be looking at its power ratings. More power = louder as the Sands Davids M475 is simply 75W x 4, I doubt it's geared towards loudness.

As for the higher-levels of Focal's lineup, buying them first-hand is expensive. I learned that too but since I got a lemon midrange (very rare cases haha!), nasulit ko rin yun warranty agad versus buying them secondhand. The funny thing with my KRX3 set is that, if you listen to it, you wouldn't guess it's Focal. My highs are really tamed down for everyday driving

The wonders of the Beryllium tweeter, aside from its engineering, is that you simply hear the little details that makes it count. For example in a track in the EMMA CD, an excellent tweeter would bring out the details to the point where you should distinguish if the player was hitting the triangle in a downward strike or an upward strike.

From time to time, you'll see offers of secondhand Focals popping up if you know where to look. For Polyglass, seeing them in secondhand markets is the norm. But you sometimes see a Utopia N7 complete with the crossblock selling at 120k :naughty2: