Tsikot.ph PHUV Prototype

[dprox]

Guys,

Question: If, and it is a BIG if, we have access to foreign funding for the project, do we consider it, given the project's nature is somewhat nationalistic or patriotic? Would like to hear your opinions. Thanks.

Hi Architect & fellow disenyadores!

I like the "BIG" part.
In the real world, it is impossible to find funding agencies without vested interests.

I am VEHEMENTLY AGAINST receiving money from governments, businesses, political and private interest groups -- lalung-lalo na if they are foreign. When you hear foreign funding, read "strings attached". When you hear foreign aid, read "chains". Siguradong talo tayo diyan in the long run.

BUT, since our design group really needs the subsidy, dapat sa mga Pinoy din manggagaling ang datong -- whether local or foreign -- pero in the form of altruistic RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT GRANTS, ie, in the interest of advancing Filipino motoring culture and possibly preserving and creating jobs locally. Iyon naman talaga ang interest natin, di ba? It can be coursed through an existing science / education foundation that is sympathetic to our goals. This will give our work the correct cultural / scientific projection, without removing the prospect of mass production later by local Filipino fabricators.

But prior to that, our design forum group needs to be packaged cleanly and neatly -- with a clear vision and statement of mission. We will also need to get good credentials and endorsements from private individuals, selected civic organizations, and motoring NGOs that are nationalistic or at least neutral -- so we can solicit grants without being suspected of being con artists. That means our our scope of work should include :

• studying and disseminating info on Filipino motoring history and culture
• conducting ongoing surveys of Filipino automotive tastes and requirements
• monitoring the local auto industry in relation to global trends
• monitoring the state of automotive technologies
• monitoring the state of production methods
• designing computer models, 3D models and prototypes of Filipino vehicles (based on the above)
• presenting concept cars to bona fide Filipino Fabricators and the general public.
• providing quality control for engaged Fabricators.

This would be like the mission statement of a nonprofit Filipino auto design studio which is what we want to establish, am I right?

We do not really need to set up a big factory. A modest R&D studio workshop with online global research and communication capability will do. And just like many successful endeavors, we can begin operations even in a modest garage.

I hope these thoughts add shape and firmness to our evolving group.
If you agree with these suggestions, perhaps a lawyer can more aptly provide a juridical description for us. Is there a lawyer in the bus?

Wha' say?

DPROX
www.disenyopilipino.ph

PS: Dis is serious! My hair is already standing on end for fear that some other group might beat us to the gun! Nakakapraning. Like what OyiL said, we have to move fast to provide a juridical shelter for our group members.
May the Force be with you!

[dprox]

i dont know if there's a book or website where we can find out how a car is developed.

There's a lot to learn online about auto design training, practices and specializations. I suggest our Disenyeros print out and clip hard copies in a binder for reference. These are like the foundations of our project.

Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automobile_design

UK Design Council
http://www.design-council.org.uk/en/...motive-design/

Design for industry: a practical framework of form development in automotive design based on design thinking
http://nordcode.tkk.fi/oslopapers/Sh...nal_Abidin.pdf

This article shows the aspects of the Automotive Design Process (Course Outline, Birmingham U)
http://www.aut.ac.ir/uob&aut/English...%20Process.htm

This is about an automotive design teaching module for high school students - mahal nga lang:
http://www.hearlihy.com/store/detail...&ID=223&bhcp=1

I'm not saying that we should parrot these to the letter, but rather adopt what is doable and appropriate to our local circumstances. These should answer many of the queries about the process of auto design.

DPROX
www.disenyopilipino.ph

[jamesvhong]

BSME - Barangay Small Meduim Enterprise or Business. I beleieve project ni gloria yan para madaming mag venture into small business, you can check DTI for how to's, for business tax breaks and funsding if needed.

I'm currently in the process of filling single proprietor for my start up business para pag lumaki ng kaunti yung income (bellow 3M) tax exempt pati sa employee nde ako magiging covered ng minimum wage law.

below 3M..is this a general requirement or applicabe to the PhUV manufacturers to keep the big boys out?

sorry, i dont know anything about business start-ups...what is BSME?

Helios - Were talking business entity po not college degree hehehe!

[OyiL]

*architect,

what do you think of this BSME? is this compatible with the PhUV program? can we apply tax breaks on top of each one?

[architect]

*architect,

what do you think of this BSME? is this compatible with the PhUV program? can we apply tax breaks on top of each one?

Oh, I think he is referring to BMBEs - Barangay Micro Business Enterprises. IIf so, I think that act was passed back in 2002. It provides income tax exemptions among others and encourages financial institutions to provide loans to such entities since the loans will be considered as part of their compliance of the Agri-Agra Law.

If I am not mistaken, a BMBE Development Fund of P300M from PAGCOR was set-up. Not sure if any funds are still available.

At any rate, that act, if still implemented, can actually apply to some aspects of what we are planning. Will elaborate in due time when the group has been formed.

[gearspeed]

Sana ang pangalan nung sasakyan ay Electron Systeco.
Tapos ang mga iba pang model SS50,SRV,Suprema atbp.

[OyiL]

DPROX, architect, atbp.

A good read DPROX,

UK Design Council
http://www.design-council.org.uk/en/...motive-design/

The article in the link above can be applied to the design stage of this project. some tailoring should be done to suit the project, though.

Design process: typical stages

1. Establishment of vehicle specification
   Carried out by multi-disciplinary team to establish parameters and decision points. This group will remain responsible for ensuring that discipline activities are completed to schedule.
   [if we build a PhUV, some of the specs are mandatory. defined na]
2. Informal discussion of first concept sketches (based on focus groups, theme boards and mood boards)
   Initial selection of two-dimensional (2D) design themes to be progressed.
3. Informal selection of concept sketches (internal to design team) go to management review.
4. Management review of concept sketches
   For marketing research normally 3-4 concepts are provided. Three-dimensional (3D) CAD models are produced at this stage.
5. 2D market research
   Concepts shown to members of the public for their comments.
6. Presentation of reworked concepts addressing the market research input
   Public attitudes are used to inform the revision of concepts.
7. Approval for detailed engineering
   Full-size clay models produced, normally of more than one concept. These are normally milled out of clay by a 5-axis milling machine from CAD data and hand-finished. CAD models are updated and released to engineering throughout the process for detailed analysis and progression towards manufacturing.
8. Three-dimensional market research – theme selection
   Full-size exterior and interior concept models are shown to members of the public for their comments. One concept is selected, informed by public opinion.
9. Final approval of 3D theme model
   Management team gives final approval to one theme model and this is then fully resolved as a three-dimensional clay model.
10. Final feasibility development of chosen theme
    The full-size clay model is scanned and a new 3D digital model produced. A full-size hard data control model is machined using this CAD data as a permanent reference for the intended appearance and craftsmanship. Other engineering disciplines are then responsible for the feasibility of the final design in terms of operation, manufacture and meeting legislative requirements while maintaining the design intent as demonstrated on the Data Control Model.
11. Final approval of 100% feasibility

guys, what's your opinion?

[architect]

Re name -

from Pinoy/Tsikot - PiKot

from Tsikot/Pinoy - TsiNoy

of course j/k

[niky]

You know a good model to review for this type of project? The Ford Transit. That's one vehicle that's modular to the extreme, can accept both front wheel drive and rear wheel drive drivetrains. It's competitive, cheap and reliable.

This is a very interesting idea. Do you guys plan to make a mock-up? And what's the final construction going to be? glass, plastic or steel?

We have local companies that can produce good steel bodies (sort of old fashioned in design due to the expense of producing good dies, but still decent), while there's companies offering glass on a steel frame for an AUV/Jeep style vehicle.

And what drivetrains in particular are you thinking about? Isuzu or others?

[OyiL]

Re name -

from Pinoy/Tsikot - PiKot

from Tsikot/Pinoy - TsiNoy

of course j/k

eto maganda.......KARGADOR, ASTG, SIGA.......

[OyiL]

Hey! ASTG sounds good. Automotive S.... Tsikot Group. cant think of what the S should stand for. hehe

specialist?

[OyiL]

for the philippine military:

[dprox]

What a coincidence.
I just arrived from an auto shop in Binan.
As usual, ogle nila si Chokaran ko. So I ask them for their first impressions and went fishing for what name these men-in-the-street would give it.
Guess what? "ASTIG" daw.
Another said "DRAGON", to which I replied "OK yan kung sa chinese ang benta".
Three years back, when my prototype was still on scratch paper, I was doing exactly the same thing, collecting possible names. So I told them "Chokaran" na siya (an indication of my age group).
See? Building your own car is like having a kid. You name him (or her), you feed, break-in, toughen, dress up, give medicine, dress wounds, and give the creature a bath regularly.
Funny
:laughbounce:
So, be careful. Once you have a name, you better be sure it is born. Abortion is not a good thing.
Wish ko lang: that the members of the group are able to realize their dreams and experience what it is like to drive your very OWN car.
Me? Even if no prototype is perfect, I'm glad to be a proud daddy.
So here's my first posting. The first photo is the scale model, second photo is the real thing taken 2005, when I ran QC to Legaspi in 9h 30mins (with a quick seaside breakfast in Gumaca).
DPROX
www.disenyopilipino.ph

[ehnriko]

DPROX, architect, atbp.

A good read DPROX,

UK Design Council
http://www.design-council.org.uk/en/...motive-design/

The article in the link above can be applied to the design stage of this project. some tailoring should be done to suit the project, though.

Design process: typical stages

1. Establishment of vehicle specification
   Carried out by multi-disciplinary team to establish parameters and decision points. This group will remain responsible for ensuring that discipline activities are completed to schedule.
   [if we build a PhUV, some of the specs are mandatory. defined na]
2. Informal discussion of first concept sketches (based on focus groups, theme boards and mood boards)
   Initial selection of two-dimensional (2D) design themes to be progressed.
3. Informal selection of concept sketches (internal to design team) go to management review.
4. Management review of concept sketches
   For marketing research normally 3-4 concepts are provided. Three-dimensional (3D) CAD models are produced at this stage.
5. 2D market research
   Concepts shown to members of the public for their comments.
6. Presentation of reworked concepts addressing the market research input
   Public attitudes are used to inform the revision of concepts.
7. Approval for detailed engineering
   Full-size clay models produced, normally of more than one concept. These are normally milled out of clay by a 5-axis milling machine from CAD data and hand-finished. CAD models are updated and released to engineering throughout the process for detailed analysis and progression towards manufacturing.
8. Three-dimensional market research – theme selection
   Full-size exterior and interior concept models are shown to members of the public for their comments. One concept is selected, informed by public opinion.
9. Final approval of 3D theme model
   Management team gives final approval to one theme model and this is then fully resolved as a three-dimensional clay model.
10. Final feasibility development of chosen theme
    The full-size clay model is scanned and a new 3D digital model produced. A full-size hard data control model is machined using this CAD data as a permanent reference for the intended appearance and craftsmanship. Other engineering disciplines are then responsible for the feasibility of the final design in terms of operation, manufacture and meeting legislative requirements while maintaining the design intent as demonstrated on the Data Control Model.
11. Final approval of 100% feasibility

guys, what's your opinion?

Lio;

This is exactly my point - di ba Common Sense lang. HOw can th PVMAP - (is that right) launch a new product - ni wala pang pinakikitang conceptual drawings for the public.

Buick entered just a Concept Drawing last 2 years ago in the Detroit MOtor show. It was a drawing showing only the half part of the car. Why wouldthey exhibit just a drawing in the show? BasicaLLY - TO SEE HOW THE PUBLIC WOULD REACT. Napaka secretive naman ng mga Pinoy Car Asemblers - eh ano ba ang tinatago nila? ..... hmmmmm - palagay ko - dapat na nga lang siguro nilang itago. ( )


I can bet - mukhang AUV pa rin lalabas yung concept nila - because I have the impression an limitado ang imagination ng mga in house designers nila... kasi - limitado din ang exposure sa mundo... kundi man - masyadong preoccupied lang ang mga brains with local politics and local tabloid type media.

Anyway - Lio - I made a little enhancement dun sa concept sketch mo of a PHUV.

Hope you like this one.

I hope I did justice to your drawing. By the way - there are tutorials in Car Design News... try it. This will further improve your rendering skills. When this project of yours pushes through - we will be needing more talents in rendering. In a Design studio - The Chief Designer needs at least 5 to 10 Cad Designers/ Engineers who are also good in renderings and translating concepts as they evolve during coffe breaks. I always keep a paper and pen with me everytime my Boss and I go out during coffee breaks... you never know when you find and see inspirations.

[ehnriko]

for the philippine military:

Lio, keep on drawing! - this drawing reminds me of my old skethces when I was in High school... it looked similar also to a MAtchbox toy I had before. I don't know if the military will allow wider front windows... just Keep it coming!

[dprox]

Wow, OyiL, ayan, buti ka pa meron ka nang renderer
Ang galing pa! :clap1:
Ehnriko, are you using any special graphics program?
Marunong ka ba mag-3D Studio Max?
I've seen how AutoCad 2006 and later versions already have a rendering button.
If I had the time, I would have wanted to learn Autodesk Viz, which is a dedicated visualization and rendering program.
But 3D Studio Max takes the cake, kasi it's really geared towards animation.
Sana magka-members tayo na expert dun.
This does not mean minamaliit natin ang hand drawing.
Any which way you cut it,
Mano-man is still greater than machine.
DPROX
www.disenyopilipino.ph

[OyiL]

Lio;
Napaka secretive naman ng mga Pinoy Car Asemblers - eh ano ba ang tinatago nila? ..... hmmmmm - palagay ko - dapat na nga lang siguro nilang itago. ( )


I can bet - mukhang AUV pa rin lalabas yung concept nila - because I have the impression an limitado ang imagination ng mga in house designers nila... kasi - limitado din ang exposure sa mundo... kundi man - masyadong preoccupied lang ang mga brains with local politics and local tabloid type media.

That's a probability. But what if, they are keeping it out of the major player's radars para when they officially launch it, may headstart na sila against the big boys.

Anyway - Lio - I made a little enhancement dun sa concept sketch mo of a PHUV.

Hope you like this one.

I hope I did justice to your drawing.

now the light reflections are more realistic. i like the new dubz. good work.

By the way - there are tutorials in Car Design News... try it. This will further improve your rendering skills. When this project of yours pushes through - we will be needing more talents in rendering. In a Design studio - The Chief Designer needs at least 5 to 10 Cad Designers/ Engineers who are also good in renderings and translating concepts as they evolve during coffe breaks. I always keep a paper and pen with me everytime my Boss and I go out during coffee breaks... you never know when you find and see inspirations.

Yes. I have read thos pero that was then, mas marami na yatang tutorials now. but i was thinking...if i can make a 3D model of my concepts, then let the software do the photo-realistic rendering, di ko na kailangang maging magaling mag render. yun nga lang, matagal bago matapos yung concept. bilisan ko na lang paggawa ng 3D model kaya. And you are right about having pencil and paper all the time. sometimes i see something that i think can be applied to my concepts..then i forget about it. wala na...i need an electronic idea recorder or a high-end digital camera. gastos a.

[imontherhythm]

wow...

Good luck sa project ninyo.

. saludo kami sa inyo.

[ehnriko]

Wow, OyiL, ayan, buti ka pa meron ka nang renderer
Ang galing pa! :clap1:
Ehnriko, are you using any special graphics program?
Marunong ka ba mag-3D Studio Max?
I've seen how AutoCad 2006 and later versions already have a rendering button.
If I had the time, I would have wanted to learn Autodesk Viz, which is a dedicated visualization and rendering program.
But 3D Studio Max takes the cake, kasi it's really geared towards animation.
Sana magka-members tayo na expert dun.
This does not mean minamaliit natin ang hand drawing.
Any which way you cut it,
Mano-man is still greater than machine.
DPROX
www.disenyopilipino.ph

I am an idiot when it comes to remembering names of the softwares I am using... actually - tamad na nga ako gumawa ng mga manual work - even with a tablet. but, I was already used with MS paint and a mouse. KAso - my assistant wanted me to try Photoshop... while he renders our Cad model in Studiomax. I enjoyed using it. I still think I am an amateur when it comes to rendering... kasi - parang mas maganda pa rin yung nasa loob ng utak ka na version. Dprox - The Cruiseaider concept nga pala is based on the standard Owner type Chassis.

Lio, don't over estimate the big guys in the Philippines... If you see the pattern in our Car Culture History... - masyadong mahaba ang progress curve. THe world is now making recycled plastic cars or recycled aluminum cars. Nasa Sheet Bending or Sheet Metal Stamping Technology pa rin tayo. SO if they are keeping something under their sleeves - trust me... if they cant make a really Beautiful Design - they will just get an existing model designed outside. ANyway, the point is - lets keep our energy with our group. and like a dynamo - let it generate to be a strong force in the very near future.

[OyiL]

Lio, don't over estimate the big guys in the Philippines... If you see the pattern in our Car Culture History... - masyadong mahaba ang progress curve. THe world is now making recycled plastic cars or recycled aluminum cars. Nasa Sheet Bending or Sheet Metal Stamping Technology pa rin tayo. SO if they are keeping something under their sleeves - trust me... if they cant make a really Beautiful Design - they will just get an existing model designed outside. ANyway, the point is - lets keep our energy with our group. and like a dynamo - let it generate to be a strong force in the very near future.

I agree. In one of the articles that dprox recommended, ganyan talaga gawa nila. yung major change 3 years average. pero if you notice they have small changes every year. para th car owners will be enticed to buy a new one. gayahin kaya natin yung idea na yun.