A Simple Solution to a Worldwide Crisis

[uls]

haha

the Prius

eco friendly car.... ya right

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage – By Chris Demorro

The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate green car is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.

Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn't be writing this article. It gets much worse.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the dead zone around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist nightmare.

The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside, said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn't end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce nickel foam. From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven't even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer – the Prius arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust" the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles – the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

So, if you are really an environmentalist – ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available – a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage – buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.

[jpdm]

What gives developed countries the right to force developing economies to use "green" technologies [SIZE=3]when those 1st world countries aren't even using the same "green" tech themselves?[/SIZE] It is not that they cannot afford it.

Developing countries can ill-afford expensive "green" tech.

IMHO, you mentioned this. Thats why I mentioned Japan. Japan is a first world country. And they are using Prius. And they can afford it.

So, I disagree by posting that article in Japan regarding the increasing sales of Prius.

Go ahead and buy a P2M Toyota Prius if it floats your boat. Tell us how much the replacement battery pack costs after two years of use.

I would rather get the Toyota Vios 1.3L ... practical, frugal on the fuel and costs less than 50% of the price of the Prius which means you have money for gasoline for the next decade.

On the other hand, I agree on the second.

Its because with a price tag of 2 million pesos (Toyota Prius), you are correct, developing countries like the Philippines can ill afford it.

Regarding your last statement, Im really considering Vios instead of buying an Adventure diesel.

[dvldoc]

There is no big brother in the RP, nobody is looking at your little secret as you claim, From your other post on the HHO scam I'm not surprised at all.

I'm pretty sure they have the research facilities and chemist to provide a better product than you can with your secret

You got OWNED on this post my friend.

[ghosthunter]

IMHO, some questions..

What is correct for you?

What is the color of sound?

What is "proper economy" founded on agriculture?

Google it.

Someone else's so-called solution of building a 100% pinoy car as the goal and single solution for the Philippine economy?Who said this?

The one who said this knows...

What is economically feasible?

What is sustainable?

I believe alot of Pinoys are doing this because it will save them alot of money(electric bills).

I think you just answered your own question.

[uls]

haha

someone's flattering himself thinking that his "secret" is a big threat to "big bros."

nothing is gonna replace crude oil as the world's main source of energy in the foreseeable future

[ghosthunter]

Its because with a price tag of 2 million pesos (Toyota Prius), you are correct, developing countries like the Philippines can ill afford it.

Regarding your last statement, Im really considering Vios instead of buying an Adventure diesel.

Each vehicle has it's purpose. If you want to move people, the Vios is good enough. If you want to transport the family living room, you might need the Adventure.

One major advantage of the Vios is it can be converted to Auto-LPG. This would make the Vios a "green" car and save money for the owner by using a cheaper fuel to go the same distance.

The Adventure can also be considered "green" but you have to either run on either 100% bio-diesel or on a veggie oil mix. Unfortunately 100% bio-diesel is expensive and hard to find in the Philippines. Althernative is to make your own bio-diesel by used veggie cooking oil.

[jpdm]

IMHO, this is my reply...

What is the color of sound?

Hmmm....

Google it.

So "proper economy" was based from Googled articles.

The one who said this knows...

Compared to someone else's so-called solution of building a 100% pinoy car as the goal and single solution for the philippine economy.

I really dont know actually.

But If we look back, re: my idea about the Philippine economy, this was my comment.

Who has income, a fracton of the Philippine population. How do you jumpstart the income of millions of Pinoys? [SIZE=3]Give them jobs by making them productive and buying local produce.[/SIZE]

So I guess you know who talks about that "idea."

And definitely, with certitude, its not me.

I think you just answered your own question.

Great!

[ehnriko]

I am just fighting (or whatever you would term it) for what I think is correct.

(What you think is correct is relative to you... not to everyone.)


Yeah, pushing for a proper economy founded in agriculture is being a hypocrite.

(Agriculture, Bio-fuel takes a portion of land that can feed people. Bio-based lubricants has a longer term consumption rate compared to fuel - this is better than the former.)

Compared to someone else's so-called solution of building a 100% pinoy car as the goal and single solution for the philippine economy.

(Thats the impression you have.)


Excuse me, but who was the one maintaining the threads regarding the recent typhoon and events around it? I was also posting updated news alerts on the board so people online on the forum can be updated on something that might be important to them.

(OK, thats out of the question... my statements were generalized. On that point I commend your action.)

I find it amazing you guys would only focus on THIS thread (and one other) and not even bother with those other threads dealing with current events.

(We dont have - speaking for myself - the luxury of sitting 20 hours a day in front of a computer. - moreover, I am still not that savvy in activating alert buttons to keep me posted on the threads I need to monitor or something. dont take it personal, I think you have been doing a good job in most threads and topics.)


Someone have to pay the rent and keep body and soul together. Someone has to make the goods we all buy. Lucky are those who don't need to work for someone else to live in this world.


(I agree - and We are on the same boat)

Nope. I think going "green" has to be economically feasible. There is a difference.

(Everything specially alternative solutions need to be feasible)


Engineers must be able to support their statements with credible data, not guesswork. As engineers, we must know that the math must stand up to scrutiny of our co-engineers otherwise we are just doing nothing more than alchemy.


(I agree)

Being green must also be sustainable. What is the point of being "green and environmental" when it cannot be sustainable? If it isn't sustainable, it has to be stopped.


(I agree, what can be more sustainable than a hydrocarbon-enriched oxyhydrogen derived from - water and vise versa for fuel - than pure fossil fuel based alone)

Being green the right way by what method? Making a car that runs on water? Dingle has been singing that tune for the last few decades and he has proven only one thing, that he is a scam artist.

(I agree! Who is defending Dingle here by the way? I am not he is simply on his own. Although I believe in the back of my mind - it is possible. But I dont think Dingle is really running his car on water alone. Mr. Anderson and Meyer maybe... and Mr. Boyce.)

You think my thread on "Being GREEN" is a mockery on you and your group. It is not. It was supposed to create awareness that going green can start from the simplest of actions. It does not need to have a car using veggie oil as fuel or inventing the practical electric city car. Something As simple as turning off the lights when leaving the room is enough as a start.

I totally agree with you on this. As I mentioned, my statement is general, it is not intended or directed on you alone personally. I don't speak for my group, I speak for myself.

The topic posted is "A simple solution to a Worldwide Crisis".

Perhaps it is much easier to define the exchange by stating the following first:

1. What is the Worldwide Crisis?

2. How do we define a simple solution? What makes it simple?

3. Can we make a criteria or adopt one to classify a solution simple or not?

4. Can being simple mean Expensive? or Cheap?

5. Is being expensive being cheaper in the long run or not?

6. Does the solution protect the interest and welfare of humanity as a whole?

7. does sustainability offer economic feasiblility in the short term?, medium and longer term?

Just to make it clear....

I dont agree that we should use vegie oil as fuel - NO WAY! Except as a base fuel in a fuel reformer...

I dont agree that we should drink alchohol...(well, maybe only in some occasions) and I certainly wouldnt want my car be intoxicated with alchohol either... because alchohol is plant based and I really dont agree with the idea of making it as a consumable liquid like fuel 1. Except for engine or mechanical lubrication only.

[jpdm]

Each vehicle has it's purpose. If you want to move people, the Vios is good enough. If you want to transport the family living room, you might need the Adventure.

One major advantage of the Vios is it can be converted to Auto-LPG. This would make the Vios a "green" car and save money for the owner by using a cheaper fuel to go the same distance.

The Adventure can also be considered "green" but you have to either run on either 100% bio-diesel or on a veggie oil mix. Unfortunately 100% bio-diesel is expensive and hard to find in the Philippines. Althernative is to make your own bio-diesel by used veggie cooking oil.

I will consider your suggestions.

But, I guess if I will choose Vios, I will not make any conversions.

On the other hand, if i will buy an Adventure, I will just use biodiesel from reputable oil firms. perhaps, Petron, Seaoil or Flying V.

[marg]

I am so tempted to share my secret oil blend that makes my engine virtually resilient to wear even if I dont change my oil anymore. But I will just keep this secret.... Big brother wont be happy about it. :-)

Me I'm so tempted to bring out my Warp Drive Space Vehicle. But I will just keep this secret.... Mr. Spock wont be happy about it.