A Simple Solution to a Worldwide Crisis

[jpdm]

What gives developed countries the right to force developing economies to use "green" technologies [SIZE=3]when those 1st world countries aren't even using the same "green" tech themselves?[/SIZE] It is not that they cannot afford it.

Developing countries can ill-afford expensive "green" tech.

IMHO, you mentioned this. Thats why I mentioned Japan. Japan is a first world country. And they are using Prius. And they can afford it.

So, I disagree by posting that article in Japan regarding the increasing sales of Prius.

Go ahead and buy a P2M Toyota Prius if it floats your boat. Tell us how much the replacement battery pack costs after two years of use.

I would rather get the Toyota Vios 1.3L ... practical, frugal on the fuel and costs less than 50% of the price of the Prius which means you have money for gasoline for the next decade.

On the other hand, I agree on the second.

Its because with a price tag of 2 million pesos (Toyota Prius), you are correct, developing countries like the Philippines can ill afford it.

Regarding your last statement, Im really considering Vios instead of buying an Adventure diesel.

[ghosthunter]

Its because with a price tag of 2 million pesos (Toyota Prius), you are correct, developing countries like the Philippines can ill afford it.

Regarding your last statement, Im really considering Vios instead of buying an Adventure diesel.

Each vehicle has it's purpose. If you want to move people, the Vios is good enough. If you want to transport the family living room, you might need the Adventure.

One major advantage of the Vios is it can be converted to Auto-LPG. This would make the Vios a "green" car and save money for the owner by using a cheaper fuel to go the same distance.

The Adventure can also be considered "green" but you have to either run on either 100% bio-diesel or on a veggie oil mix. Unfortunately 100% bio-diesel is expensive and hard to find in the Philippines. Althernative is to make your own bio-diesel by used veggie cooking oil.

[jpdm]

Each vehicle has it's purpose. If you want to move people, the Vios is good enough. If you want to transport the family living room, you might need the Adventure.

One major advantage of the Vios is it can be converted to Auto-LPG. This would make the Vios a "green" car and save money for the owner by using a cheaper fuel to go the same distance.

The Adventure can also be considered "green" but you have to either run on either 100% bio-diesel or on a veggie oil mix. Unfortunately 100% bio-diesel is expensive and hard to find in the Philippines. Althernative is to make your own bio-diesel by used veggie cooking oil.

I will consider your suggestions.

But, I guess if I will choose Vios, I will not make any conversions.

On the other hand, if i will buy an Adventure, I will just use biodiesel from reputable oil firms. perhaps, Petron, Seaoil or Flying V.

[donbuggy]

...Im really considering Vios instead of buying an Adventure diesel.

Noooo! Say it ain't so! With all due respect sir, why not buy a handcrafted vehicle from a local fabricator?

[uls]

hahaha

amazing

the guy who is the NUMBER 1 CHEERLEADER for Pinoy motor vehicle builders/fabricators wants to buy a Toyota (second choice Mistubishi)

[jpdm]

Noooo! Say it ain't so! With all due respect sir, why not buy a handcrafted vehicle from a local fabricator?

We just bought a nice AUV and an OTJ made by a well-known Cavite fabricator.

Vios and Adventure are locally assembled vehicles.

[uls]

but the earnings are remitted to Toyota and Mitsu headquarters in Japan

[jpdm]

There are many things you can do in your daily life that can have an effect on your immediate surroundings, and on places as far away as Antarctica. Here is a list of things that you can do to make a difference. Reduce your own adding on to this problem!


Buy a Fuel Efficient Car, Carpool When You Can, Inflate Your Tires, Change Your Air Filter. Reduce Garbage, Use Recycled Paper, Buy Minimally Packaged Goods, Unplug Un-used Electronics. Plant a Tree, Use Compact Fluorescent Bulbs, Fill the Dishwasher, Adjust Your Thermostat, Check Your Water-heater, Change the AC Filter, Take Shorter Showers.



Install a Low-Flow Showerhead, Buy Products Locally, Buy Energy Certificates, Insulate Your Water Heater, Replace Old Appliances, Weatherize Your Home, Use a Push Mower, Put on a Sweater, Insulate Your Home, Air Dry Your Clothes, Switch to a Tankless Water Heater. Switch to Double Pane Windows. Buy Organic Food, Bring Cloth Bags to the Market.
[SIZE=2] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=2]from:

[/SIZE][SIZE=2][SIZE=3]Water Everywhere[/SIZE]

by Dahli Aspillera
Editorial
Malaya
September 30, 2009
[/SIZE] [SIZE=3]
[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]Dahli_a*yahoo.com[/SIZE]

Simple solutions to a world-wide crisis...

[ehnriko]

JP, I agree with ULS about the profits are brought to Japan if you buy a new JJ (Japanese Junk).

It would be more sensible to keep you old car and recondition it so it will be a lot - better than brand new.

I say this for the following practicalities:

1. Old cars (not brand new in this respect) will not depreciate as fast as a speeding bullet.

2. Oldies don't need a stupid comprehensive insurance coverage that does not cover Acts of God. If your old car drowns in the flood, compared to a new one, both cars are basically the same in value... good as junks.

3. Restoring or reconditioning or pimping an old car gives you a Huge increase in value added factor on an old car.... Much Much more than a NEW Car with so much blings. No matter what pimping you do on a new car, it will not become anymore expensive or valuable as another brand new car without the blinging.

4. AN old car with renewed bushings and suspension works...will outlast a Brand new car 15 times! Bring an old car in CRUVEN for a complete polyurethane bushings and rubbers replacements for the underpart will cost you about P30,000. You can even have your shocks converted for an adjustable ride feel system.

5. In essence... an old car - can already be considered a Pinoy car if it doesn't make the CASA's and After-Market Sales Departments of the manufacturer any centavo richer by the day.

If you are able to enjoy the whole service life of your car without paying the troll so to speak... and instead, able to keep it maintained by adopting an alternative maintenance program - serviced by Pinoys - with parts or alternative systems from Pinoys... locally. Then, your car becomes converted to a Pinoy Car in essence.

How does this equate as a simple solution to a Global Crisis?...

One of the reasons why there is such a crisis is due to the unbalanced distribution of wealth... which can be blamed to no other but the masses themselves.

Ika nga ni Rizal... ang Sakit ng Lipunan ay... Walang mang aapi kung walang magpapa api.

Nagpapa api ang masa sa pamamagitan ng pag suporta sa consumerismo. Ito and paraan ng mga capitalista upang mapanatili ang masa sa ilalim ng kanilang kapangyarihan.

No need to elaborate on this... just keep your awareness heightened all the time as to who are we going to patronize.

I say, you dont need to get rid of your old JJ in order to become nationalistic.

IMH Observation.... Keeping an old car empowers an individual. Making it run perfectly well using local resources will truly empower him more.

Buying a Brand New Foreign Made Car is the is actually an Enslaving situation... I dont know if you are aware of this?... I have been an owner of Brand New Cars in the past and I think - it was the most stupid decision ever made.

Spending you Millions on brand new cars is like throwing away your guns and ammo.

I regret selling my old old cars that can outperform brand new cars in Comfort, ride and safety as well as economy.

My 1971 VW 411 AT has a ride similar to My 1980 Renault 2.0 M/T... both have enough power and makes between 7 to 10 km per liter (rough estimates/ I dont normally measure my FC's those days). The ride and comfort I had with those cars is much better than my 1971 MB 250CE A/T. which has a ride feel similar to my 1963 Jaguar XJS.

Anyway, those cars were made for nothing but that... definitely nothing to do with power to weight ratio efficiencies.

Nowadays, cars are valued for their efficiency and for their greenability. The greener they are... the more pricey they get. But why believe that only the Big companies are capable of making cars green?

The CASA will not make a new car any greener than it already is... The fact that it makes no smoke is not a sign of beeing green. The worse gas that have caused the severe weather we are having is invisible.

If for any reason why you are getting rid of your old JJ is because you just want to drive a fresher looking car... Believe me... You will enjoy it more if you just pimp it using locally sourced technology and products. Bring it ATOY Body Kits or the like, put in RiCeY seats and interior... Swap your Mags with Light weight mags to get more Fuel Economy. Buy Westlake tyres - Dunlop Quality for half the price... (China made - better than buying Japanese made in this respect).

Repaint or Washover paint it with a lighter toned color to help in cooling the interior and it also makes your car less contributory to greenhouse affect.

If you notice - Solar Water Heaters have dark painted surfaces under the heat exchanger coils or tubings... this is to retain heat. Darker Cars absorb heat much more than lighter colored ones. Which makes your AC work lesser for that matter.

[A121]

OT: New cars are designed to absorb impact in helping to protect the occupants and the driver. (for the vios, of course)

[marg]

But driving a 70's made car nowadays is a lot safer since all the other cars around it will absorb all the impact, and the older car will remain more intact.

Your mouth is moving without your brain knowing about it. You obviously don't know what you are talking about.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRbwTutw-Hk&feature=fvw"]YouTube - 1970's VW Beetle and 1970's Gen. 1 Golf[/ame]
70's VW Beetle and 70's Gen. 1 GOLF Crash Test

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHp1GAFQzto"]YouTube - 2009 CHEVY MALIBU vs. Vintage MALIBU[/ame]
New CHEVY MALIBU vs. Old CHEVY MALIBU, the guy in the new car was expected to walk away from the accident while the one in the old car would have died.

[Benji_DCP]

The crash test videos are very informative, considering it was sponsored by Insurance companies. You can clearly conclude that older cars comprehensive/collision insurance premiums would be very costly in the US due to the high risk involve.

[ghosthunter]

The crash test videos are very informative, considering it was sponsored by Insurance companies. You can clearly conclude that older cars comprehensive/collision insurance premiums would be very costly in the US due to the high risk involve.

Er... wrong. The one done by Fifth Gear UK was for a TV program. No insurance companies included.

[ehnriko]

Your mouth is moving without your brain knowing about it. You obviously don't know what you are talking about.

ARE YOU SURE?

YouTube - 1970's VW Beetle and 1970's Gen. 1 Golf
70's VW Beetle and 70's Gen. 1 GOLF Crash Test

YouTube - 2009 CHEVY MALIBU vs. Vintage MALIBU
New CHEVY MALIBU vs. Old CHEVY MALIBU, the guy in the new car was expected to walk away from the accident while the one in the old car would have died.

Now who's using youtube videos?

The above videos are meant to serve some companies well.

Firstly, Old Chevy's have bolt on front end chassis. Have you ever seen an old car under full ground up restoration?

I was referring to old cars with full chassis like a MOPAR 69 Dodge Dart... or a 76 Crown. There were old cars with detachable front ends... - they are definitely not the ones I am refering to.

I walked away alive and in tact (thank God, I was wearing seat belts) after hitting a concrete post with a 76 Toyota Crown 2.5 Li. 6 cyl. A/T version at 80 kph. The whole front end was smashed up to the water pump section. But the rest of the body was in tact.

I couldn't have survived If I was driving my 97 Sentra Series 3 AT..

I would like to see a 69 DODGE DART head on with a 2009 Toyota Vios.

Reality... If you drive a 69 Dart nowadays in Philippines - the chances of having a head on with a new model Chevy Malibu is nill. But head on with smaller toyota or Mitsu or Honda JJ is higher.

I havent tried searching yet... but I'm sure you'll try looking for a video to counter this.

[architect]

Hi Niky,

I have noticed, too, the trend towards inner city redevelopment, especially in unsuccessful high-rise tenement neighborhoods. While the compact areas generally lend themselves to car-less activities, such efforts also tend to displace the previous low-income residents. In addition, being in the inner city, previous residents already tend to commute because of the convenient established mass transportation infrastructure. Thus, the net gain in carbon footprint would not be as significant.

As for our situation here in the Philippines, the creeping suburban development is as much, like most anything, a bastardized imitation of the American approach, as it is out of necessity. But you are right in that a lot of subdivisions can and are somewhat self-contained in that you can procure most daily needs right within the confines of the developments. And once the population of a new development is sustainable, tertiary transportation (i.e. tricycles) will also become available. Interestingly, this set-up can be found both in upscale communities and middle to lower-middle classes subdivisions. Fact is, it is also applicable in squatter colonies.

Currently, in the upscale communities, you can see residents drive around in electric golf-carts to go to the nearby golf/country club or to the neighborhood commercial center. If we are to look at recent historical trends, electric golf carts/utility vehicles are likely to come down in price as China continues to find ways to make them cheap and affordable, as it does with just about any popular consumer product. (Earlier this year, the Chinese government adopted a plan aimed at making the country one of the leading producers of hybrid and all-electric vehicles within three years, and a world leader in electric cars and buses after that.) So it is likely we will see such electric vehicles in less luxurious neighborhoods in the near future.

So whether the effort is Chinese or American, the objective is obviously making electric vehicles affordable both in terms of acquisition costs and usage. Obviously there is a difference in the approaches with the Chinese aiming to leapfrog existing technology while the Americans/Japanese are doing it incrementally.

There are also other more radical suggestions – such as the linkable electrics you mentioned. However these require substantial infrastructure and hence are more difficult to implement since they will require government involvement. After all, any green solution cannot be pure dogma and is invariably tied to the existing environment (such as the aforementioned suburban sprawl) and economic structure (such as the oil industry which can potentially be severely affected).

For a poor third world (fourth?) country like ours, obviously for any proposed solution to be viable, especially in the short-term, the change has to be incremental in terms of the status quo. One possible opportunity is the one you mentioned – the so-called tertiary routes, some of which are currently served by tricycles. It is in fact an approach that I have been researching on for the past couple years. So I guess our mindsets are not too far off from each other.

Hmm. Perhaps we should really get on with that long-overdue EB with you so that we can pick your brains?

[ghosthunter]

Not because China have produced it affordably that the Filipino consumers will buy it.

Example is the electric scooter. China has been making this for over a decade and it is pretty affordable, looks like any other scooter and only requires the battery pack to be plugged into a household outlet to recharge. Yet when importers try selling these locally, very few people bought them. Gas powered scooters were still the choice for the Filipino rider.

This is the same mentality why the Filipino car buyer would prefer Japanese over Korean cars.

[niky]

Not because China have produced it affordably that the Filipino consumers will buy it.

Example is the electric scooter. China has been making this for over a decade and it is pretty affordable, looks like any other scooter and only requires the battery pack to be plugged into a household outlet to recharge. Yet when importers try selling these locally, very few people bought them. Gas powered scooters were still the choice for the Filipino rider.

This is the same mentality why the Filipino car buyer would prefer Japanese over Korean cars.

The lack of convenience of an electric scooter versus a gasoline scooter is a very poor trade-off for the emissions and fuel savings benefits... but yeah... the biggest hurdle is the perceived (and actual) lack of quality control versus vehicles from other countries. Heck... most Chinese-made gasoline scooters are dreck compared even to locally-made ones.

Hi Niky,

I have noticed, too, the trend towards inner city redevelopment, especially in unsuccessful high-rise tenement neighborhoods. While the compact areas generally lend themselves to car-less activities, such efforts also tend to displace the previous low-income residents. In addition, being in the inner city, previous residents already tend to commute because of the convenient established mass transportation infrastructure. Thus, the net gain in carbon footprint would not be as significant.

Actually, since you're moving commuters out closer to the factories where blue-collar jobs are, and drivers in closer to the commercial areas where white-collar jobs are, it should have some gain, however small.

As for our situation here in the Philippines, the creeping suburban development is as much, like most anything, a bastardized imitation of the American approach, as it is out of necessity. But you are right in that a lot of subdivisions can and are somewhat self-contained in that you can procure most daily needs right within the confines of the developments. And once the population of a new development is sustainable, tertiary transportation (i.e. tricycles) will also become available. Interestingly, this set-up can be found both in upscale communities and middle to lower-middle classes subdivisions. Fact is, it is also applicable in squatter colonies.

The Sari-Sari store. It makes us greener than the West!

Currently, in the upscale communities, you can see residents drive around in electric golf-carts to go to the nearby golf/country club or to the neighborhood commercial center. If we are to look at recent historical trends, electric golf carts/utility vehicles are likely to come down in price as China continues to find ways to make them cheap and affordable, as it does with just about any popular consumer product. (Earlier this year, the Chinese government adopted a plan aimed at making the country one of the leading producers of hybrid and all-electric vehicles within three years, and a world leader in electric cars and buses after that.) So it is likely we will see such electric vehicles in less luxurious neighborhoods in the near future.

So whether the effort is Chinese or American, the objective is obviously making electric vehicles affordable both in terms of acquisition costs and usage. Obviously there is a difference in the approaches with the Chinese aiming to leapfrog existing technology while the Americans/Japanese are doing it incrementally.

The big problem is the stigma of "China Made", as GH points out. Despite being number five in the world and being an acknowledged forerunner in the diesel race, Hyundai still carries the "Korean Made" stigma. And this despite the fact that some of the best electronics also come out of Korea (I'm typing this on a Samsung monitor... absolutely lovely unit).

Until the last Chery Tiggo or QQ3 leaves the road, to be replaced by more modern and (hopefully) more durable future Chinese models, public acceptance of Chinese cars will not happen. It may take another five to ten years to get the grudging acceptance the Koreans get, now.

There are also other more radical suggestions – such as the linkable electrics you mentioned. However these require substantial infrastructure and hence are more difficult to implement since they will require government involvement. After all, any green solution cannot be pure dogma and is invariably tied to the existing environment (such as the aforementioned suburban sprawl) and economic structure (such as the oil industry which can potentially be severely affected).

Maybe, maybe not... gasoline distribution is already problematic in the provinces... a lot of provincial stations (and even metro stations) go under after a while. The volume isn't there. This means that there is either room for an alternative (LPG or electric) to grow... or that the market is too poor to support any type of motorized transport.

I guess my anti-hybrid stance is simply because it's treated like dogma in the US... where other countries are going for a more general conservational stance... not using a single magic bullet, but by diversifying fuel use and buying more efficient vehicles overall.

Add to our further Americanization is the fact that larger vehicles with larger engines are becoming more popular as our middle class grows richer and US and European crash regulations and market needs demand heavier cars... a trend that needs to be reversed, and soon.

For a poor third world (fourth?) country like ours, obviously for any proposed solution to be viable, especially in the short-term, the change has to be incremental in terms of the status quo. One possible opportunity is the one you mentioned – the so-called tertiary routes, some of which are currently served by tricycles. It is in fact an approach that I have been researching on for the past couple years. So I guess our mindsets are not too far off from each other.

Hmm. Perhaps we should really get on with that long-overdue EB with you so that we can pick your brains?

I'm willing. It's just that after the typhoon, time and money are tight. PM me your CP again (I lost my previous phone) and we can talk some time. I miss being involved. ;)

[architect]

I fully agree China-made cars are currently perceived as inferior in quality and performance to Japanese and even Korean cars and rightfully so. But if we take as case studies other products manufactured by China, there is a very strong argument it is just matter of time before they become acceptable, even to Filipino consumers.

Historically, the Chinese will first try to learn the manufacturing process, either legally as a licensed subcontractor, or illegally via producing exact imitations. Once they perfect the process, they will try localize the product for the domestic market, exhibiting some sort of original but minimal design efforts. But once they perfect that phase, they will develop completely new designs and try to establish their own brand image in the global market.

Several factors come into consideration insofar as global (or specific) market acceptance is concerned. Where there is a well-entrenched quality standard, especially for high-ticket items such as automobiles, a China-made version with a perceived lower quality will have a more difficult time unless it successfully minimizes entry barrier to render the initial investment relative insignificant. Of course, if it proves its quality over time, then it will definitely be able to compete - but the emphasis here is over time.

Others simply purchase an established brand (Lenovo's purchase of the IBM Thinkpad line) to expedite market acceptance. While others invest in substantial multi-media marketing, such as Acer, to make its brand well-known.

Others persist in illegal ways - like the plug and play Honda-compatible motorcycles, simply because they can get away with it. Despite various negative feedback, the sheer disparity in prices, as well as the availability of affordable financing have enabled China-made motorcycles to penetrate the local market. Of course, the compatibility with a well-known model does not hurt.

This is the same marketing model Chery used in making its Chevy Spark-plug compatible QQ a best seller in China. Other China car companies have followed since, with some achieving the same kind of success.

However, with the EVs, it is entirely a different matter. Firstly, there is no one dominant model that is well-known globally. The Chinese don't know who to imitate. Secondly, the limitations of EVS insofar as speed and distance is concerned have, by and large, deterred the Chinese consumers from buying in.

Parallel to this is that fact that the local market has matured and is now showing a preference for traditional mid-sized sedans. This is also the reason why China companies are now dumping their low-end models in third world countries like ours.

But as you have noted, the local acceptance has not been that lukewarm. This can be attributed to the fact that a baseline has been well-defined (and for years) by Japanese (and American) models and by which the Chinese cars fail miserably in comparison, negating whatever price advantages they offer.

However with EVs, there is no such established baseline to date. China-made EVs will fail to attract the mainstream market, not so much because of comparison (with what?) but because of their current limitations. And given the current situation, I doubt very much if any hybrid or EV, for that matter, will in the near future become a dominant brand that can serve as a baseline.

Thus, if within the planned three year time frame, entry barriers are minimized for both acquisition and usage and performance is improved, then China-made EVs might just become viable options.