Yet Another Radiator Cap Pressure

[mongobread]

Hi to all,

I know this has been discussed before, and I've already done a lot of back reads of the threads and research in the internet.

But I want to know and want to get answers specific to the details below for more clarity:

Engine: 4g15 carb
Status of Radiator: Old/Newly overhaul/re-patched 2 times because of leak
Radiator Cap: Circuit, Silicone Type (daw) is 0.9
I bought another Cap which is federal mogul 1.1
Thermostat housing: Corroded yung kinakabitan ng hose and I see white powder sa connection nya sa engine.
Coolant: I used 2 liters of premix halvoline long life coolant, pinkish stuff before the overhaul. Now I'm running mineral water not distilled dahil yun lang avail after overhaul. I plan to use coolant 50/50 Peak brand mix w/ distilled but I'm opting to get brand new radiator at dun ko na lang gamitin.
Hoses: Looks old and I don't know the age since I got the car November 2013.
Water Pump: Looks old and I don't know the age.
Water Status: Inside the radiator I see glittery particles na parang metal shavings. It doesn't have oil in it so I know my head gasket's not blown. My mechanic confirms it.
Engine: Parang masyado mainit kahit 1/4 lang temperature. Firewall is hard to touch pag afternoon tirik araw, even the sides of the front strut mounts.
Radiator Fan: Rekta Fan
Thermostat: None
Thermoswitch: disabled or sira na ata kaya hindi na naka-connect
Temp Sending Unit: Replaced / Bnew

I have full service manual of the engine and here's the book says:

Radiator Cap
Main Valve opening pressure = 81.4-108 kPa (11.8 - 15.6 psi, 0.83-.1 kg/cm*)
Vacuum valve opening pressure = -6.86 kPa (-1.00 psi, -0.07 kg/cm*) or less

Now here's what I need clarity:
I read that increasing the pressure increases the boiling point but make sure there's no weak points in the cooling system.

I used 0.9 after the overhaul but I read na 1.1 increases boiling point.

Now based sa specs ng book I'm allowed to use 1.1, but based sa nabasa nyong status ng cooling system do you think I should stick to 0.9?

Thanks in advance.

[saksidriver]

Kung ano yung stock yun ang gamitin mo. Kung hindi ka naman nagpalit ng thermostat. radiator cap naka depende yan sa thermostat. Stock thermostat = stock radiator cap. Kung wala ka thermostat, lagay ka.


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[mongobread]

Kung ano yung stock yun ang gamitin mo. Kung hindi ka naman nagpalit ng thermostat. radiator cap naka depende yan sa thermostat. Stock thermostat = stock radiator cap. Kung wala ka thermostat, lagay ka.


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Poorly maintained ang kotse when I got it. It has 0.9 cap in it, the service manual says I can go 0.83 to 1.1 as stated here:

Main Valve opening pressure = 81.4-108 kPa (11.8 - 15.6 psi, 0.83-.1 kg/cm*)

I do plan to get thermostat sir and thermoswitch.

And here's the book says:
Thermostat
Valve opening temperature = 88 +/- 1.5 degrees celcius (190.4 +/- 2.7 degrees farenheit)
Full-opening temperature = 100 deg c (211 deg F)
Valve lift, fully open = 8 mm (0.31 in) or more
Identification mark = 88 (Stamped on flange)

What I want to get clarification is that should I go 1.1 cap to improve boiling point to fight against init ng pinas? Or I should go 0.9 dahil may edad na yung radiator at panay leak kaya re-patch pa rin after overhaul (under warranty kaya free patch)

What I have posted is stock cap is 0.83 - 1.1 caps is acceptable.

[dr. d]

Poorly maintained ang kotse when I got it. It has 0.9 cap in it, the service manual says I can go 0.83 to 1.1 as stated here:

Main Valve opening pressure = 81.4-108 kPa (11.8 - 15.6 psi, 0.83-.1 kg/cm*)

I do plan to get thermostat sir and thermoswitch.

And here's the book says:
Thermostat
Valve opening temperature = 88 +/- 1.5 degrees celcius (190.4 +/- 2.7 degrees farenheit)
Full-opening temperature = 100 deg c (211 deg F)
Valve lift, fully open = 8 mm (0.31 in) or more
Identification mark = 88 (Stamped on flange)

What I want to get clarification is that should I go 1.1 cap to improve boiling point to fight against init ng pinas? Or I should go 0.9 dahil may edad na yung radiator at panay leak kaya re-patch pa rin after overhaul (under warranty kaya free patch)

What I have posted is stock cap is 0.83 - 1.1 caps is acceptable.

I don't think your choice of cap is the cause of overheating. Look for another cause.
In some cars, water pump failure is manifested by a leak and not primary overheat.

[mongobread]

I don't think your choice of cap is the cause of overheating. Look for another cause.
In some cars, water pump failure is manifested by a leak and not primary overheat.

Sir hindi po cause of overheat question ko:

I read that increasing the pressure increases the boiling point but make sure there's no weak points in the cooling system.

Now based sa specs ng book I'm allowed to use 1.1, but based sa nabasa ninyong status ng cooling system do you think I should stick to 0.9?

Simply put, can my current overhauled, 2 timed repatched radiator, & old hoses with no thermostat in the engine plus the rekta fan setup can handle the increase pressure of 1.1 cap? (Note: I'm slowly trying to bring back stock setups to my 4g15 carb project. What I'm asking is the current setup)

[12vdc]

Your boiling point will remain the same, only difference is the cap will open at higher temps causing more pressure on the walls of cooling system. Since you mentioned the radiator is old and had history of leaks, that means the rad core couldn't withstand normal pressure range of your cooling system. It's your radiator that needs replacement-core is thinning due to corrosion. Cap opens(positive pressure) only when your'e on overheating condition. Since you are not overheating, then cap is not a factor.

Sabi ng radiator mo.. palitan mo na ako please. lol

I'd replace the leaky radiator, replace hoses, install back thermostat, and wire back thermoswitch to fan. From there if it still feels hot then i'd look somewhere else like correct coolant or waterpump (those glitters are telltale of worn pump or fragments from radiator core).

[jaypee10]

hindi issue ang radiator cap sa overheating maliban lang kung sira na talaga siya at tumnatagas na dun mismo sa cap ung tubig ng radiator mo.

1. buksan mo ung radiator cap at silipin mo kung nag si circulate ang tubig .kung hindi nag sicirculate.baka may thermotat pa siya,
subukan mo muna tanggalin ung thermostat.saka mo paandarin ulit para malaman mo kung umiikot ba ng maganda ang tubig sa makina mo papunta sa radiator..kung hindi na umiikot ng mabilis malamang water pump may problema.

[jick.cejoco]

Your cooling system should be sufficient in controlling the heat levels if the other systems are working right. Other possible causes of overheat include too lean of air/fuel mixture, intake vacuum leak, too advanced ignition timing, improperly bled cooling system, pump cavitation due to loss of pressure in the cooling system, too high octane fuel and rust/scale build up in the water jackets


Posted through phlpost.gov.ph

[niky]

Using a higher pressure radiator cap does indeed raise the boiling point of the water... which helps keep the coolant from boiling over... which helps prevent coolant loss in hot traffic.

Running pure water, will decrease the temp at which the coolant will boil, but not to the point where you should have problems.

Running with the radiator fan in "rekta" mode and without a thermostat, you're wasting a lot of gas... the car will be taking a whole lot longer to get to operating temperatures... which is bad for economy.

-

The metal shavings suggests that you might have a water pump problem, which is causing the high temperatures. Should also replace the hoses. Old hoses can expand, which decreases the pressure of the cooling system... which can lead to premature boiling of the coolant.

Given you've got shavings in t

[mongobread]

Using a higher pressure radiator cap does indeed raise the boiling point of the water... which helps keep the coolant from boiling over... which helps prevent coolant loss in hot traffic.

Running pure water, will decrease the temp at which the coolant will boil, but not to the point where you should have problems.

Running with the radiator fan in "rekta" mode and without a thermostat, you're wasting a lot of gas... the car will be taking a whole lot longer to get to operating temperatures... which is bad for economy.

-

The metal shavings suggests that you might have a water pump problem, which is causing the high temperatures. Should also replace the hoses. Old hoses can expand, which decreases the pressure of the cooling system... which can lead to premature boiling of the coolant.

Given you've got shavings in t

Sir bitin ata yung message mo.

Again sir, I've done my homework kaya nga po sabi ko unti unti ko restore yung cooling system. I already know what you have said and thanks for re-confirming.

My only question is that based sa mga nabasang details ng cooling system ko, should I be using 0.9 cap or 1.1 cap? I just want to confirm if I can use 1.1 kahit overhauled at matanda/weak na yun radiator at lumolubo yung radiator hoses ko.

But I think you've kinda answered my question when you mentioned hoses expand that leads to premature boiling. I think 1.1 cap gives more pressure sa system na pwedeng ikaputok ng hoses as I've read na use high pressure cap if there's no weak points in the system. Tama po ba?

Currently I'm back to 0.9 cap federal mogul brand..

My question is purely educational purpose po. For the record I'm self-learning car mechanics, DIY guy as a hobby and used 4g15 carb engine to learn. I'm slowly returning everything sa stock factors po.

[niky]

Yeah... having internet issues.

I was going to say... check your water pump... metal shavings probably mean your water pump is on its way out.

The solution to your cap dilemma should be: replace the hoses. They're the most probably failure point in your system.

[mongobread]

Yeah... having internet issues.

I was going to say... check your water pump... metal shavings probably mean your water pump is on its way out.

The solution to your cap dilemma should be: replace the hoses. They're the most probably failure point in your system.

Yes sir I will be replacing hoses. You've kinda answered me indirectly that I can use 1.1 cap if I've established no weak points in the cooling system.

These metal shavings are like powdery na. pag na salok mo sa tubig at tried to rub it against fingers na-didissolve. Still these are metal shavings right? Or aluminum corrosion lang? Either way, since hindi ko alam history ng water pump. I'm going to change it.

[EVO-V]

Yes sir I will be replacing hoses. You've kinda answered me indirectly that I can use 1.1 cap if I've established no weak points in the cooling system.

These metal shavings are like powdery na. pag na salok mo sa tubig at tried to rub it against fingers na-didissolve. Still these are metal shavings right? Or aluminum corrosion lang? Either way, since hindi ko alam history ng water pump. I'm going to change it.

At 1 ATM (1 bar) water's boiling point is 100C.

At 1.1 bar its at 102C, at 1.2 bar is 106C.

If your engine is overheating, that radiator cap really does little but pressurize your system making it more prone to leaks at the joints.

The reason why you want to defer boiling is because a phase change from liquid to gas makes water 40,000 time less conductive and it pressurizes the whole loop.

Then your cylinder heads glowing red hot and start warping.

If you really want to raise your boiling point without pressurizing, increase your coolant-water ratio. However, it doesn't mean just because you're not boling the water component from your coolant, that your engine isn't running hot.

Or go with a waterless coolant, 196C boiling point, and since there is no vaporization there is no pressure build up. You can practially do away with a pressure cap.

[dr. d]

Or go with a waterless coolant, 196C boiling point, and since there is no vaporization there is no pressure build up. You can practially do away with a pressure cap.[/QUOTE]

how much?
is it available to us mortals?
and is it not dangerous to the standard engine? temperatures can go beyond that of the usual water-based cooling system..?

[jick.cejoco]

you'd still need a pressure cap. it not only raises the boiling point, it also concentrates the heat to the pressurized coolant to dissipate more heat in the radiator. it also makes the water pump more efficient by reducing or eliminating pump cavitation- a result when a liquid is whipped repetitiously and rapidly creating foam.

[mongobread]

Hi to all,

I know this has been discussed before, and I've already done a lot of back reads of the threads and research in the internet.

But I want to know and want to get answers specific to the details below for more clarity:

Engine: 4g15 carb
Status of Radiator: Old/Newly overhaul/re-patched 2 times because of leak
Radiator Cap: Circuit, Silicone Type (daw) is 0.9
I bought another Cap which is federal mogul 1.1
Thermostat housing: Corroded yung kinakabitan ng hose and I see white powder sa connection nya sa engine.
Coolant: I used 2 liters of premix halvoline long life coolant, pinkish stuff before the overhaul. Now I'm running mineral water not distilled dahil yun lang avail after overhaul. I plan to use coolant 50/50 Peak brand mix w/ distilled but I'm opting to get brand new radiator at dun ko na lang gamitin.
Hoses: Looks old and I don't know the age since I got the car November 2013.
Water Pump: Looks old and I don't know the age.
Water Status: Inside the radiator I see glittery particles na parang metal shavings. It doesn't have oil in it so I know my head gasket's not blown. My mechanic confirms it.
Engine: Parang masyado mainit kahit 1/4 lang temperature. Firewall is hard to touch pag afternoon tirik araw, even the sides of the front strut mounts.
Radiator Fan: Rekta Fan
Thermostat: None
Thermoswitch: disabled or sira na ata kaya hindi na naka-connect
Temp Sending Unit: Replaced / Bnew

I have full service manual of the engine and here's the book says:

Radiator Cap
Main Valve opening pressure = 81.4-108 kPa (11.8 - 15.6 psi, 0.83-.1 kg/cm*)
Vacuum valve opening pressure = -6.86 kPa (-1.00 psi, -0.07 kg/cm*) or less

Now here's what I need clarity:
I read that increasing the pressure increases the boiling point but make sure there's no weak points in the cooling system.

I used 0.9 after the overhaul but I read na 1.1 increases boiling point.

Now based sa specs ng book I'm allowed to use 1.1, but based sa nabasa nyong status ng cooling system do you think I should stick to 0.9?

Thanks in advance.

Sirs, ang tanong ko lang po ay okay lang ba gumamit ako ng 1.1 cap kasi nakasulat naman sa manual na 0.83 - 1.1 pwede sa akin.

(See details below)

Radiator Cap
Main Valve opening pressure = 81.4-108 kPa (11.8 - 15.6 psi, 0.83-1.1 kg/cm*)
Vacuum valve opening pressure = -6.86 kPa (-1.00 psi, -0.07 kg/cm*) or less

Kumokontra kasi yung radiator shop na 0.9 lang daw dapat at mechanic ko.

Gusto ko lang ma-enlightened na kung mahina na nga ba ang hose, newley overhauled ang radiator ay wag akong mag 1.1 tulad ng sinasabi nila or it doesn't matter because I'm allowed to use 0.83 to 1.1 cap naman.

And as sir niky said:

The solution to your cap dilemma should be: replace the hoses. They're the most probably failure point in your system.

So high pressure cap may not be a good idea nga ba till I isolate weakpoints sa cooling system ko.

Again, please read the details based sa status ng cooling system ko.

[EVO-V]

you'd still need a pressure cap. it not only raises the boiling point, it also concentrates the heat to the pressurized coolant to dissipate more heat in the radiator. it also makes the water pump more efficient by reducing or eliminating pump cavitation- a result when a liquid is whipped repetitiously and rapidly creating foam.

Nope you won't. If by the time you even reach the boiling point using a waterless coolant, your engine would have long shut itself off.

And since you really don't have air, assuming your cooling system is properly primed, there would be no cavitation issues for the pump to deal with.

[EVO-V]

Sirs, ang tanong ko lang po ay okay lang ba gumamit ako ng 1.1 cap kasi nakasulat naman sa manual na 0.83 - 1.1 pwede sa akin.

(See details below)



Kumokontra kasi yung radiator shop na 0.9 lang daw dapat at mechanic ko.

Gusto ko lang ma-enlightened na kung mahina na nga ba ang hose, newley overhauled ang radiator ay wag akong mag 1.1 tulad ng sinasabi nila or it doesn't matter because I'm allowed to use 0.83 to 1.1 cap naman.

And as sir niky said:



So high pressure cap may not be a good idea nga ba till I isolate weakpoints sa cooling system ko.

Again, please read the details based sa status ng cooling system ko.

At 1.1 bars the boiling point of water is 102C. If by any chance your radiator finds itself having a hard time keeping you below 96C, the high pressure cap is the least of your concerns. Don't strain your system any further.

And seriously, radiator "overhauling" is really a bandaid for light vehicles. There are a host of cheap radiators you can get nowadays. Get a new one. Don't skimp. An engine overhaul is just one overheating incident away from ruining your month.

[mongobread]

At 1.1 bars the boiling point of water is 102C. If by any chance your radiator finds itself having a hard time keeping you below 96C, the high pressure cap is the least of your concerns. Don't strain your system any further.

And seriously, radiator "overhauling" is really a bandaid for light vehicles. There are a host of cheap radiators you can get nowadays. Get a new one. Don't skimp. An engine overhaul is just one overheating incident away from ruining your month.

Yes sir, I do plan to get a new radiator. For the meantime lang ito till I'm done w/ the tirik scenario of the engine (Ignition Coil overheat issue) but that's another topic.

My cooling system is fairly fine naman kahit bago ako mag pa-patch/overhaul. Hindi naman nataas sa middle ang temperature ko.

I just want to know lang naman if putting 1.1 cap on my radiator is really bad because everyone seems to be telling me to go back to 0.9 cap kahit na ang allowable spec sa akin ay 0.83 to 1.1 cap.

Ang debate ko kasi sa kanila ay mas matagal umangat naman ang temp needle ko kaya I thought increasing the boiling point helps.

I just want justification and clarity for knowledge sake if I use 1.1 cap is really bad for me na.

[mongobread]

And to add, they scold me not to put thermostat which I debate with that why not and why I should? Hindi naman makasagot sa ano pa silbi ng radiator if the water/coolant is being circulated all the time.

Kaya nga daw nakarekta na yun radiator fan ko, eh kako bugbog naman and I don't think kaya nyang palamigin talaga ang radiator lalo't stop and go sa bumper to bumper scenario.

For the record I do plan to restore everything, from thermostat to thermoswitch and new radiator.