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  1. Join Date
    Oct 2004


  2. Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by medyas View Post
    Sir honismitoy, hybrid din ba avatar mo?


  3. Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by king_solomon View Post

    watch this guys. you will know if it's worth buying toyota prius or What?
    Hahaha! na-review na rin pala ni Jeremy yung Prius and somehow he said exactly what i was saying. hehehehe.

  4. Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by Horsepower View Post
    I don't know what's with the Ad hominem. Attack my arguments, not me. Ignorant? hahahaha, i may be but i am at least intelligent enough to know there are things i don't know. Since you called me ignorant, i take it that you are a super genius who knows everything?

    The replacement batteries are US$ 7000 each. If i am not mistaken, there's 12 of them. At that cost, they should have added something to supplement the battery. Let me do a little math, 7000x12= US$ 84,000. That sounds like a new car. That sounds stupid to me given the puny "benefits".

    Sure, Toyota would recycle these for you when you replace them. Wait, what's there to recycle? The electrolytes are out (they degenerate), the piles are out (they degenerate too!), what's left then? I reckon it must be the casing! So, where are they gonna dump the contents of the batteries then? to outer space? Of course not, that'll cost a lot. They lose a lot with every Prius sold already. Wait! how about dumping it to 3rd world countries such as the Philippines? what a bright idea!

    Also, replacement (non-Toyota) batteries appeared in the US Market showing sign that there's indeed a problem. If the battery of Prius, a relatively new model, is guaranteed to last long (there's even a claim it'll last the life of the car), it's quite funny for some companies to sell batteries and for some Prius owners to replace theirs this early.

    BTW, Do you know that if you don't use your Prius regularly, Toyota USA will void your car's warranty if you don't charge the hybrid battery system once/two weeks? I've read consumer complaints regarding this and i think it's silly for them to consider not charging as user negligence. Of course, i haven't talked to Toyota USA regarding this but you might wanna try.
    But diesels still have a long way to go.

    If you want to ask me about what diesel cars my dad owns, here's a list:
    Land Cruiser Prado, two Isuzu Crosswind and one Innova 2.5 diesel. So that's 3 pump-type and 1 common rail. I've also test driven (with my dad) a few common rail/more advanced diesel vehicles: two Hyundai units (Matrix CRDI and Tucson 4x4 CRDI), Kia Carens top-end model, a BMW 530d and 535d (these were neat) and an Audi A4 AVANT (although the 2.0 TDI engine is NOISY). If you need proof, then that's it.

    Feedback: All are neat (except the TDI engine from Volkswagen Auto Group) and have improved over the old diesels. But.......are these you're so called "THE WAY TO GO" fuel choice of the future. HELL NO!!!

    So diesels haven't fully-edged out in a few aspects over let's say.....gasoline/petrol engines atm. For VAG, the 2.0 TFSI engine is a way better choice than their current

    Maybe I should have restated it better then. Diesel (in stand-alone form) is NOT the way to go. Nor probably gasoline/petrol or hybrid (in its second-generation form).

    Do you want to know what is being predicted within the next decade? It is this:
    Whatever we learn from implementations of current engine & fuel technologies (diesel, gasoline/petrol, current hybrid,etc.), it will be taken to the next level.

    What you could have said (horsepower) was about DIESEL HYBRIDS. If I remember, BMW wants to release one after 2010. If it works, then it could be put to use in the 5 and 7-series for the next decade models. But remember, DIESEL is still not the way to go.

    Because if it was, then why is BMW still investing in Hydrogen with a target release for next decade? Why is MB testing its A-class FUEL CELL prototype in 13 different locations around the world? Why is Toyota enthusiastic on their next generation hybrid system (to debut in the next Prius come 2009)??? Why did Nissan release the Altima Hybrid in the states and have an X-trail Fuel cell prototype undergoing testing in Kanagawa, Japan???

    Heck, even Hyundai claims that they have a Santa Fe Fuel Cell vehicle (based on current model) and an Accent Hybrid testing in Korea and the US??

    In short: NOTHING IS ABSOLUTE!!!

    Definitely far from your so-called "WAY TO GO". If that were to happen, then diesel must first go through a deeper revamp. Like how Bosch fuel injector systems are still allergic to bio diesel after blends of 5% (also those of Denso). If I remember too, Honda stated in their manual that Honda Europe will void the warranty to anyone who uses biodiesel on their N22A1 diesel engine (yung 2.2). Heck, the Hyundai Sonata does well with its 2.4 and 3.3 gas/petrol engines. It does not need a diesel engine.

    Diesel is still far from outstanding (long way to go atm). What about hybrid then? least not the current one. The current Prius system still needs work (full electric mode is only up to 40 km/h according to niky). Not to mention that the kinda fugly too.

    Where the current Prius fails though is where the Lexus LS 600 Hybrid does better:

    Toyota shows that its UR series engines can beat any current diesel engine that the European maestros (ie. MB, BMW, etc.) can offer. There have been hundreds of raves and praises about the 1UR-FE and 1UR-FSE for use in the Lexus LS 460 SWB/LWB and these are from numerous car magazines, enthusiast sites, reviewers and other independent car groups (even Jeremy Clarkson raved it and said that no European maker can match Lexus & their engine offerings).

    Now, Toyota group has done it again with the 2UR-FXSE engine which delivers V-12 performance (seen in S 600, 760 Li, A8 L W12) yet having the fuel economy of a V8 (740 Li, S 430). Just absolutely brilliant (for a current hybrid). More worth having than a BMW 730 Ld and an S 320 CDI.

    But my point is, the long and short of it is that diesels, in spite of having its own respective strengths, still have numerous weaknesses (so as any other engine/fuel tech out today).

    Perhaps when Bluetec (from MB) and Bluemotion (from VAG) as well as the introduction of an electric motor (diesel hybrid), then it could be an ultimate.

    But until then, I won't ever fall for your "DIESEL IS THE WAY TO GO" hype.

    I'd rather have a gasoline/petrol car than a current diesel (TFSI>TDI; i-VTEC/Advanced VTEC> i-CTDI).........even if gasoline/petrol engines also have flaws of its own.
    Last edited by Blackraven; June 15th, 2007 at 09:22 PM.

  5. Join Date
    Mar 2006
    EV's and Hybrids are not... Theyre a waste of money and pretty bad in the environment. Diesels are the better alternative as of now. Hydrogen in the future.

  6. Join Date
    Mar 2005
    kaysa mag-away kayo sana gumawa na lang ng hybrid crdi instead na hybrid gasoline. yan ang super tipid!

    eh di everybody happy hehehe

  7. Join Date
    Aug 2004
    The problem is, hybrid drivetrains have their own weaknesses. And it's a very glaring one... price.

    It may not matter to the average Lexus owner, or the the average motoring journalist (Hell, I'll take an Accord V6 hybrid, please...), but in terms of the average car buyer, the question is the "trickle-down" effect.

    This occurs when advancements in auto-technology found on high-end cars or limited numbers of cars find their way down to the common consumer.

    Certain items have. Disc brakes, ABS, Airbags, EFI, CRDi, VVT/VTEC (not from high end cars, but from a handful of manufacturers doing it on sports engines, now almost everyone is in on the game), electric steering... etcetera.

    Certain items haven't, yet, but are coming... direct fuel injection for gasoline engines (Audi has it. Mitsubishi had it, but aren't doing it at the moment...), variable geometry turbines (it's mass-market already, but limited to a few manufacturers), automatic engine stop/start (BMW are finally putting this on non-hybrids), regenerative braking, etcetera.

    Hybrids point at future technologies that can be used in automobiles... but they are probably not the future. Not until you can prove the trickle-down effect will work to reach the least-common-denominator... the entry-level market.

    CRDi is just now knocking on that door... the cheapest CRDis are merely 100k more than their gasoline counterparts, while the cheapest hybrids still cost 800k to 1200k more (without tax breaks).

    And trickle-down doesn't always happen. Aluminum has been in extensive use since the dawn of the automobile age, and yet remains the sole preserve of luxury cars in use for chassis construction, simply because the process is so expensive. Aluminum engines are another matter, because the technology used to cast solid aluminum blocks isn't as expensive.

    Some hybrid technologies can be applied to "regular" cars to improve fuel efficiency.

    1. The "assist motor"... basically, a bigger starter motor that can move the car by itself when needed, but necessary because it spins the gasoline motor to over 1000 rpms during starts, saving the gas wasted on low rpm starts, and decreasing engine wear from cold starts. However, the batteries required to power it are still too expensive and bulky for common use.

    2. Electric steering, Electric Airconditioning... We're seeing Electronic Power Steering on very cheap models now. It saves a tiny bit of gas from the parasitic losses due to the power steering pump on hydraulic systems. Electric AC, if it becomes widespread, could save another 5-10%.

    3. Regenerative braking... this lessens alternator load, thus, saving fuel. But the extra cost and weight might make it too expensive for mass-market cars.


    The reasons that hybrids themselves, in their current form, might not be our future lie in other technologies they use.

    1. Low rolling resistance tires... Low rolling resistance equals low fuel usage. But, as many first-gen hybrid owners can tell you, they make for horrible braking distances and handling (I've got "energy saving" tires on my delivery pickup... scary mothers). It's so bad that the current Prius uses regular tires instead.

    2. Battery packs... it's not just the expense... it's the expense and the availability. Despite hybrids only being built to serve a limited market, suppliers are still facing a shortage of batteries to supply hybrid makers. And we come again to the aluminum problem. If the expense (and rarity) of the raw materials and the difficulty of making them remain high, they'll still remain an expensive item. While we've seen a lot of advances in the stability and charge capacity of modern batteries in the past decade... we haven't really seen prices go down dramatically simply because of those factors.

    3. Complexity... Let's put it this way. A vehicle using an ultra-efficient gasoline engine can be just as fuel-efficient as the Prius, without being as heavy. A vehicle using merely an electric engine can be even more fuel efficient, without being as heavy or as expensive. It's all down to the fact that a full hybrid is burdened with two powertrains and fuel sources. A flex-fuel vehicle is still burdened with two fuel sources (two separate tanks), but it uses just one powertrain.

    The Chevrolet Volt gets around this by having a gasoline engine to produce electricity only, thus it spins at optimum speeds at all times and doesn't waste gas. Except it does waste gas, simply because of charging inefficiencies. Which brings us to the last item:

    4. Charging inefficiencies... Simply put, you throw a lot of energy into the batteries, but not all of it gets stored. But the next generation of batteries seems to be on the horizon... (nanosafe) so this drawback might not exist for long. But quick charging batteries benefit full-on electric vehicles even more than hybrids. The primary reason for hybrids is that electric vehicles suffer from short range and long charging times. With quick-charging nano-safe, you eliminate the charging times, and make the range issue less of an issue, because you can stop at a charging station and top off very quickly compared to "old school" batteries.


    Simply put, that's it. Electric vehicles might be the future, and hybridization might help them generate their own electricity (a la Volt), but using two different engines to power the vehicle is simply a duplication, a waste of potential.

    Or we might still have internal combustion engines, simply because batteries will remain expensive in the future... but buttressed by key technologies developed in hybrids.

    But I could be wrong. The Petrol engine has been in development for over a hundred years. The diesel engine has been undergoing a renaissance in the past twenty. LPG technology is making giant leaps in this decade... going from the crude, dangerous carburated LPG systems of the 70's to sophisticated and smart EFI LPG systems of today. Who knows what the next decade will bring in battery technology?

    Ang pagbalik ng comeback...

  8. Join Date
    Mar 2006
    dami ko na nakita Prius here in the Philippines

  9. Join Date
    Oct 2002

    Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the ‘dead zone’ around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

    The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius’ battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist’s nightmare.

    “The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside,” said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

    All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn’t end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce ‘nickel foam.’ From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

    Wait, I haven’t even got to the best part yet.

    When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer - the Prius’s arch nemesis.

    Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust,” the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles - the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

    The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.
    Last edited by FLiPMaRC; August 23rd, 2007 at 11:03 PM.

  10. Join Date
    May 2006
    Well, as they say "You can't get something for nothing!"

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