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  1. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    1,744
    #811
    Quote Originally Posted by power eagle
    ...beside, toyata is not known for diesel engines, consider NISSAN ISUZU OR MITSUBISHI those are tested brands in diesel.!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by bitoks2004
    In terms of technology, yes it is superior. But in terms of durability and reliability, it has a lot to be proven compared to Isuzu's 4ja1 and the legendary 4D56 of mitsu. Besides, Toyota is not known for their diesel engines.
    So what's your point? Let some other poor shmuck be the guinea pig while you wait for two or three years before embracing new diesel technology, especially if it was developed by Toyota?

    I know a car is a huge investment and we want something that we shell out hard earned money for to work flawlessly for several years. However, I think that companies like Toyota or even Kia and Hyundai should be supported for pushing for the development of new diesel technologies, especially those that result in cleaner emissions and greater fuel efficiency.

    The Toyota D4D problem sucks, and the roundabout way that Toyota Phils is dealing with it leaves much to be desires, but that's why there's such a thing as a product warranty and consumer advocacy, to make these car companies accountable for the vehicles they sell us.

  2. Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    45
    #812
    Quote Originally Posted by mikey177
    So what's your point? Let some other poor shmuck be the guinea pig while you wait for two or three years before embracing new diesel technology, especially if it was developed by Toyota?

    I know a car is a huge investment and we want something that we shell out hard earned money for to work flawlessly for several years. However, I think that companies like Toyota or even Kia and Hyundai should be supported for pushing for the development of new diesel technologies, especially those that result in cleaner emissions and greater fuel efficiency.

    The Toyota D4D problem sucks, and the roundabout way that Toyota Phils is dealing with it leaves much to be desires, but that's why there's such a thing as a product warranty and consumer advocacy, to make these car companies accountable for the vehicles they sell us.
    Just want to point it out that you can't make a blanket conclusion that an engine is superior based on technology alone as what altec has been saying and that's why I quoted his statement.

    And I'm not trying to bash Toyota, in fact one of my vehicles is a Toyota.

    Sorry for the misunderstanding and Peace.

    BD might be the answer for the D4D Engine Woes but still it won't erase the fact that the spring in their fuel pump is not up to par with our dirty fuel or it will be up to par with other CRDI systems. For me, it will just be a band-aid solution. Better if Toyota will correct this problem and replace it with a better spring or better CRDI system which is more compatible to our fuel.

    Just my 2 cents.

  3. Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,251
    #813
    bitok, where in my statement did I make a blanket conclusion??!!

    I have actual experience with all the engines you mentioned. From the 1C, 2C, 2L, 3L, of Toyota, plus the CRDi systems. Take note, my experience doesn't cover just one vehicle of each engine type. Let's talk plural, not singular. Mitsubishi? 4d56, 4d56T, 4d56TDIC, dumaan na rin ako diyan. Plural din. Nissan? Same. Isuzu? You mentioned 4ja1. I have under my supervision 10 units using 4ja1 engine. All those engines have their own pluses and minuses. Same with crdi engines. Toyota knows their old diesel engines pale compared to others. But they went out and was the 1st to really commercialize the crdi engine here. The others who tried were isuzu's 4jx1 which failed miserably, Mercedes Benz Vito Van which never did take off, and now you have the kia sorrento crdi, hyundai matrix crdi, and recently, the starex crdi (sister engine with the sorrento). No argument on the fuel pump issues, heck its been argued and discussed extensively. But if you are able to do some adjustments to work out the kinks in the pump of toyota's crdi, and UNLESS SOMEONE TELLS ME AND JAEGER from anyone who used BD in their D4D na nasira pa rin ang fuel pump nila (up to now, NO ONE), we will still say that BD MAY be the solution to the fuel pump problem. If the fuel pump problem is eliminated or minimized, then comparing its engine specs, no contest! 105hp versus 80+ hp for the isuzu 4ja1, toyota 2C, mitsu 4d56 (all 2.5 Liter category), torque, etc, all talo. Yes, we still don't know how durable this engine is, kasi nga bago pa, so until someone tells us that it is not durable (aside from the fuel pump and the proposed additive to correct the problem), you can't say it can't be as durable!

    And by the way, the 4d56? It's an overhyped, underpowered smoke belching engine that is not that durable as claimed. In the L200? adequate. In the Pajero series? No way. In the L300? Shorter life because of its engine position. Durable compared to what? Now that's another story. Kasi baka blanket statement na naman ang pagbasa nito.
    Last edited by altec; April 1st, 2006 at 12:34 PM.

  4. Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    499
    #814
    IMHO, kung ang problema ay ang DENSO supply pump, kahit anong ilagay natin na cleaning additive, power booster or cleanest diesel sa Toyota d4d engine, sigurado papalya ang engine or bigla na lang mamamatay. kinakapos ang supply ng diesel sa engine that's why kailangan i-rev mo pa ang engine, as stated by some tsikoteers. this problem is similar to what happened with my suzuki fb delivery van. the engine suddenly dies down. we thought it was the ignition coil. still the problem persisted. then we checked the fuel supply pump. sira na pala. in the case of toyota d4d, di pa dapat magkaroon ng problema since bago pa ang engine

  5. Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    45
    #815
    Quote Originally Posted by altec
    aside from the fuel pump problem, d4d diesel is superior to the other diesels inside all the other auv. To compensate for this problem, go biodiesel, go d4d.
    Sorry for the OT but here is altec's statement.

    And I'll say it again:
    Yes, its more technologically superior but yet it's still unproven compared to the other diesels in other AUVs. And I didn't say that all the other diesels in the other AUVs are superior either since I know they also have their share of problems and their technology is from an earlier generation. But the other diesels have proven their worth over time (durability and reliability).

    Anyway, that's only my opinion and Altec's opinion is as good as mine. So no need to flame. Sorry, Peace.

  6. Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    118
    #816
    altec:

    got my innova d4d last january. 3600 odo. i just started using bioactiv * 2%. so far ok naman ung performance. post ko observation ko using BD later. 200 kms pa lang kasi.


    thanks to all..

  7. Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    203
    #817
    bmw uses crdi engine 4 all diesel variants as well as mercedes!
    even volkswagen golf GT pinangakakarera nga e un nga lang nag eemit ng blak smoke kaya nya makipagsabayan sa gas engine even turbos!
    the latest diesel engine i saw on tv w/c will be use at Le mans race was a V8 CRDI engine. the first ever diesel engine that will be use for racing by AUDI

  8. Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    83
    #818
    well its nice to know that someone in this group is trying to solve the d4d puzzle. so keep on going bros. saludo ako.

  9. Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Posts
    1,251
    #819
    bitok, you just contradicted yourself. I questioned what you said that I made a blanket conclusion that d4d is superior to other diesels inside other auv, and you even highlighted that part of the sentence, but you deliberately did not highlight the 1st part of the sentence, which is ASIDE FROM THE FUEL PUMP PROBLEM. LET ME SAY IT AGAIN ALSO, my conclusion that D4D is superior is based on the specs of this engine versus the other direct and nondirect injection engine in its class, EXCEPT for the ACKNOWLEDGED FUEL PUMP PROBLEM. So don't think that people will accept your opinion by quoting and emphasizing based on PART of someone's statement, which you did and questioning in effect what that person said, specifically my statement. So where is that blanket conclusion? I think you were misled to think my statement said that d4d is superior, period. It is not, mainly because of the problems mentioned.

    You said you own a toyota, what model may I ask? Because I think it's not a D4D, and assuming that you don't, therefore, what you mentioned about the spring in the D4d is based on someone else's experience, and your comments about the 4d56 is based on your experience with the adventure. The reason why mitsubishi maintained the 4d56 line up is that's the engine model they have for the 2.5L line. That's why after the 4d56, they replaced it with the 4m40, a 2.8L. The length of time the engine design was put in commercial use does not automatically mean that it is superior in terms of reliability and durability as the reason why it was used for such a period of time. I have a master list of the whole mitsu diesel engine line from their 4 cylinder models up to engines used in their trucks. I also have the same master list for isuzu, toyota, nissan, and hino, excluding their crdi lines. Diesels are expected to last much longer, anything less than 200K in between overhauls show a weakness. And that is where Toyota's indirect diesel engines are- they struggle to go beyond 200K before needing overhaul, heck, the 2C engine struggles to go beyond 150K before overhaul. 4d56? Yes, they have proven to be better than toyota's, but not necessarily when compared to isuzu, hino, and even nissan. You may say that your actual experience with 4d56 is quite good, and that means you have treated your engine very well and have been rewarded with good service, but there are also several other not good experiences with 4d56, because the 4d56 needs more maintenance than other diesels, because the 4d56 is an indirect injection engine, and still uses a timing belt, unlike isuzu that uses a timing gear and direct injection. Then again, that's in hindsight, considering the 4d56 has been in existence for more than a decade, nearing two.

    Again, following that line of thought, I don't argue with you that the d4d has yet to prove itself superior in terms of reliability and durability, and the fuel pump problem is not a good start. As what Jaeger pointed out in the websites he provided that seems to be in other countries there are crdi systems from other makers that are having problems due to lubricity issues. And this is the point we are trying to make, and I believe that's also partially what Mikey177 meant in his reply to you. It really sucks if the owners have to experience problems and having to go about our own way of finding the solution when it should be the manufacturers doing double time to correct it. It would be better for manufacturers like toyota to emphasize the lubricity concerns that other crdi makers reported and work from there.

    I want to emphasize here is that with MY innova, I did experience that choking problem, step by step, to the letter. But it disappeared coincidentally after a few loads with biodiesel. Call it by accident if you wish, but so far so good. I would rather think that the use of biodiesel has arrested the spring's malfunction, thus giving me trouble free use of my innova. Now, will I stop using bd in my innova just to see if the choking problem will recur and finally prove my theory? It's like saying will you stop taking your heart medicine to really check if your heart really has a problem? Sure, toyota can charge it under warranty, but I'd rather continue using BD in my D4D unless someone can prove to me otherwise. I've not had the choking problem recur after over 10,000 kms with BD. And note unlike Larshell and others who had their ECU reset or their pump replaced to stop the choking, mine just went away.
    Last edited by altec; April 2nd, 2006 at 11:40 PM.

  10. Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,244
    #820
    Yesterday i went to Toyota balintawak to check leaks at my shocks and they evaluate the damange cover naman daw ng warranty. They will have to order parts daw ill have to wait for the shocks. My ODO is 11k plus.

    Earlier in this thread someone is asking if the problem w/ D4d is gone.
    There is this one owner of Fortuner G 2.5 D4d on its 1k pms has this problem and claiming that he want unit replacement, syempre hindi pwede yon. He just order the parts and he will be back in the next two weeks.

Toyota D4D engine woes