ABS Question

[BigHead]

Good day mga chief, quick question lang.

Does the 2002 - 2003 Toyota Altis J model have ABS? or only the E - G model does?

Thank you all for your time

Cheers!

[bluerolla]

I have a 2004 Altis J and it doesn't have ABS. so I assume na wala din yung lower year models.

Buti pa yung bagong Vios. kahit J may ABS. may airbags pa.

[BigHead]

I have a 2004 Altis J and it doesn't have ABS. so I assume na wala din yung lower year models.

Buti pa yung bagong Vios. kahit J may ABS. may airbags pa.

Thanks for the input chief... I guess my hunch was right all along... but do you agree that it is still a decent maneuverable car (particularly on curves and when sudden braking and turning is required) in spite the lack of this specific feature?

Pahabol question lang.. sorry about that.

[Type 100]

Thanks for the input chief... I guess my hunch was right all along... but do you agree that it is still a decent maneuverable car (particularly on curves and when sudden braking and turning is required) in spite the lack of this specific feature?

Pahabol question lang.. sorry about that.

ABS just means you can stomp on the brakes AND steer at the same time, without lockup.

In an emergency that will be useful, but in reality most people don't even push their brakes close to the ABS-triggering threshold. Worse, most people don't know when their ABS is actually working - the giveaway is when there's a strong pulsing judder through your brake pedal, meaning the brakes are pumping open and closed many times a second. The uninitiated would tend to let go of the brake pedal if this happens - which is what you don't want to do.

Even more telling is ABS requires a minimum speed to work. It won't work below 25 km/h or so.

No ABS doesn't mean a car's bad. It's no super-brake; ABS can actually lengthen the distance it takes for your car to come to a full stop vs. no ABS. It's all in how you drive.

[BigHead]

ABS just means you can stomp on the brakes AND steer at the same time, without lockup.

In an emergency that will be useful, but in reality most people don't even push their brakes close to the ABS-triggering threshold. Worse, most people don't know when their ABS is actually working - the giveaway is when there's a strong pulsing judder through your brake pedal, meaning the brakes are pumping open and closed many times a second. The uninitiated would tend to let go of the brake pedal if this happens - which is what you don't want to do.

Even more telling is ABS requires a minimum speed to work. It won't work below 25 km/h or so.

No ABS doesn't mean a car's bad. It's no super-brake; ABS can actually lengthen the distance it takes for your car to come to a full stop vs. no ABS. It's all in how you drive.

Thank you very much chief Type 100 for your very insightful input.

Truth be told it really does ball down on how you drive so better to just drive safely than be sorry in the end.

Thanks again for your insight chief

Cheers!

[myas110]

I have a 2004 Altis J and it doesn't have ABS. so I assume na wala din yung lower year models.

Buti pa yung bagong Vios. kahit J may ABS. may airbags pa.

i think the current vios J does not have ABS, and it only has a driver side airbag

[userfriendly]

My personal view on ABS is its nice to have but not really needed. Its also another thing that may fail. If it does, expect to spend a lot.

Had a A32 Cefiro whose ABS module failed. It caused the brake pedals to become too soft. Brakes still works but the pedal sinks. Took the car to 3 trusted shops and they couldn't diagnose it correctly. Finally brought it to the dealer. They were only able to diagnose it by replacing each and every brake part with test parts until they nailed it. They wanted over 100,000 pesos for the part. A guy from Banawe was offering the same part for around 30,000 but my gut was telling me it was chop chop so I passed. I traded the car in for a new car.

My other car has a busted ABS sensor. Darned part is part of the wheel bearing assembly. To fix it I have to replace the whole assembly. I just let it be. I drive around with the ABS light on the dashboard.

In my 20 years of driving, I only recall about 1 time that the ABS turned on. It was when my car slipped on snow and ice. It did not save me from going up the sidewalk.

[Type 100]

My personal view on ABS is its nice to have but not really needed. Its also another thing that may fail. If it does, expect to spend a lot.

Had a A32 Cefiro whose ABS module failed. It caused the brake pedals to become too soft. Brakes still works but the pedal sinks. Took the car to 3 trusted shops and they couldn't diagnose it correctly. Finally brought it to the dealer. They were only able to diagnose it by replacing each and every brake part with test parts until they nailed it. They wanted over 100,000 pesos for the part. A guy from Banawe was offering the same part for around 30,000 but my gut was telling me it was chop chop so I passed. I traded the car in for a new car.

My other car has a busted ABS sensor. Darned part is part of the wheel bearing assembly. To fix it I have to replace the whole assembly. I just let it be. I drive around with the ABS light on the dashboard.

In my 20 years of driving, I only recall about 1 time that the ABS turned on. It was when my car slipped on snow and ice. It did not save me from going up the sidewalk.

Great insight, thanks. I didn't know replacing ABS wheel sensors would sink so much of our money! 100K can get you a brand-new engine or three.

I've never owned a car with ABS so I've learned how to drive without relying on it, even on racetracks. That said, maybe it's unrealistic for everyone to undergo training in cadence braking (aka "human ABS") or performance driving just to cope with a car without ABS...so it's a "nice to have" feature for non-enthusiast drivers.

[BigHead]

Great insight, thanks. I didn't know replacing ABS wheel sensors would sink so much of our money! 100K can get you a brand-new engine or three.

I've never owned a car with ABS so I've learned how to drive without relying on it, even on racetracks. That said, maybe it's unrealistic for everyone to undergo training in cadence braking (aka "human ABS") or performance driving just to cope with a car without ABS...so it's a "nice to have" feature for non-enthusiast drivers.

*userfriendly

Thank you very much as well for your informative feedback. I too never expected an ABS related problem could cost so much. Thinking about it now and looking back, our first car was a 97 Kia Pride CD5 which had no such features like ABS, Break Assist, AirBags, and not even power steering, and yet, we went on a lot of really out-of-town trips with no problem at all aside from the occasional bus overtaking us on the highways and shaking the car like it was going to break in half hehehe.

*type 100

So there is actually a training called cadence braking? for race car drivers I presume? do you race ba chief? on what vehicle class and which track?

And your right; I guess it would be more safer to learn to drive like you don't have one, than to drive like a lunatic thinking that having ABS alone will be more than enough to keep you from getting into an accident.


Thank you both again for your very thorough and insightful feedback.

Cheers!

[userfriendly]

Great insight, thanks. I didn't know replacing ABS wheel sensors would sink so much of our money! 100K can get you a brand-new engine or three.

I've never owned a car with ABS so I've learned how to drive without relying on it, even on racetracks. That said, maybe it's unrealistic for everyone to undergo training in cadence braking (aka "human ABS") or performance driving just to cope with a car without ABS...so it's a "nice to have" feature for non-enthusiast drivers.

Actually its the ABS module of my Cefiro that cost 100K. Its basically the abs control module. Its located in teh engine bay right under the brake master and hydrovac. It looks like a silver colored rectangular box with lots of small pipes.

The ABS sensors can normally be fixed by just cleaning the part. Its just too bad that with my Chevy, its an assembly and cant be cleaned.

[BigHead]

Actually its the ABS module of my Cefiro that cost 100K. Its basically the abs control module. Its located in teh engine bay right under the brake master and hydrovac. It looks like a silver colored rectangular box with lots of small pipes.

The ABS sensors can normally be fixed by just cleaning the part. Its just too bad that with my Chevy, its an assembly and cant be cleaned.

Actually; I used to drive a 97 Nissan Sentra that also had ABS, but I probably just failed to notice the ABS control module under the brake and hydrovac. Or the box was probably just too dirty for me to notice.

I really never thought that an important feature such as this, could also be such a pain in the wallet.

Better to just start driving at slower pace then than what I am accustomed to.

As they say, better safe than sorry

[desert fox]

Malaking tulong ang ABS sa isang sasakyan. my previous ride chevy Cavalier 2001 have it at ilang beses na akong naisave ng ABS nya sa aksidente...

Mali ang sapantaha na more distance kapag nagpreno ka with ABS against w/o ABS. kung totoo ito, provide us some link...

[desert fox]

Great insight, thanks. I didn't know replacing ABS wheel sensors would sink so much of our money! 100K can get you a brand-new engine or three.

[SIZE=5]I've never owned a car with ABS[/SIZE] so I've learned how to drive without relying on it, even on racetracks. That said, maybe it's unrealistic for everyone to undergo training in cadence braking (aka "human ABS") or performance driving just to cope with a car without ABS...so it's a "nice to have" feature for non-enthusiast drivers.

I beg to disagree sa sinabi mo na nice to have it feature lang ang ABS sa isang sasakyan...malaking tulong ito sa mga drivers bro.....isa na ako doon....at na-experience ko na ito in many times...

nagtataka lang ako, di mo pa pala na-experienced makapagmaneho ng kotseng me ABS, pero iba ang perception mo sa ABS.....

[desert fox]

For added info sa mga Drivers about ABS, malaking tulong ito sa atin.

Wag nyong isipin na added attraction lang ito sa isang sasakyan...

[Type 100]

*type 100

So there is actually a training called cadence braking? for race car drivers I presume? do you race ba chief? on what vehicle class and which track?

"Cadence braking" is simply pumping the brake pedal at the threshold of lockup (the point where the tire's grip is at its strongest) - at the point of lockup, you let go of the pedal and press again. This is essentially the basic principle behind ABS. The difference is ABS will do this much faster than any human can - it used to start out at 15x/second in the late 1980s; God knows how quickly the ABS cycles the braking system when activated these days.

Cadence braking is not really a racing thing. It's more of a car control skill, which anybody can learn given practice. On ABS-equipped cars though, the associated module and sensors do this for you.

I've driven quite a few trackdays in Subic and Batangas, all in a low-powered Jazz 1.3 with no ABS...you can refer to my thread in the "Me and My Tsikot" forum for photos and video. I don't want to appear haughty, but I've proven for myself and my friends that proper driving technique can trump better hardware. The stopwatch doesn't lie. I was putting in a 58.93-second lap around Subic when people in faster EK Civics posted lap times in excess of 1:00.

I beg to disagree sa sinabi mo na nice to have it feature lang ang ABS sa isang sasakyan...malaking tulong ito sa mga drivers bro.....isa na ako doon....at na-experience ko na ito in many times...

nagtataka lang ako, di mo pa pala na-experienced makapagmaneho ng kotseng me ABS, pero iba ang perception mo sa ABS.....

Flaw in your logic: Just because I don't OWN a car with ABS doesn't mean I haven't DRIVEN a car with ABS.

It's nice to have precisely because you can learn to cope without it. See my explanation above. ABS is no super-brake; the basic principle can be done by a human driver. The thing is, most drivers simply cannot/will not/do not want to learn how to brake properly without it, which is perfectly fine from a safety standpoint. They just require something to do rapid-fire cadence braking for them.

In the snow, ABS can actually make your life a little harder because you can't depend on the wheel lockup to build up a cushion of snow in front of your tire. That cushion of snow will help deceleration.

On the public road, ABS is important because unlike driving around a closed racetrack, you cannot control nor predict the environment you are driving in. There are simply too many variables, and any advantage can help. However, people have survived years of driving without it. Especially in the Philippines, ABS is a fairly recent feature - the US and Europe had it in the 1980s but we had to wait until 1994-95.

The bottom line is people can learn how to drive without depending on or ever triggering ABS - in an ideal world with ideal drivers, that would be the way to go. Barring that, if you account for everybody else on the road being a potentially foolish driver and drive accordingly and defensively, that's the next best thing.

My fear is, when ABS actually does get triggered, do people actually know what to do? If they let go of the brake pedal in fear of something getting broken they just negated the advantage ABS brought them. The use of ABS, like driving in general, requires very specific practice - the knowledge and confidence that the system is doing its thing even with the foreign sensation of pedal judder and noisy brakes.

[Type 100]

Malaking tulong ang ABS sa isang sasakyan. my previous ride chevy Cavalier 2001 have it at ilang beses na akong naisave ng ABS nya sa aksidente...

Mali ang sapantaha na more distance kapag nagpreno ka with ABS against w/o ABS. kung totoo ito, provide us some link...

Here's some great reading on the wonderful world of braking technique.
http://fastdriving.blogspot.com/2009...-it-right.html
http://www.drivingfast.net/car-control/braking.htm

It'd take a good driver with a great grasp of brake pedal feel, but yes, threshold braking - aka the very best braking you can achieve - can be done regardless if a car has ABS or not.

The main thing to avoid is wheel lockup. On an ABS-equipped car, this actually still happens. It's just that the ABS system will step in when it happens, and pulse the pedal pressure for the driver.

===
The magazine Autocar in the UK does a "0-100-0mph showdown" every year. Basically you start from a standstill, rocket to 100mph (160 km/h), then brake to a complete stop...in the least possible time.

To improve the max braking performance of the cars, they deliberately feather the brake pedal on ABS-equipped cars to avoid triggering it. The wisdom is that once ABS kicks in, you've already passed the threshold of the tires' grip and you've actually locked up your brakes (see above links). In effect, you've lost the advantage of keeping the maximum braking force that threshold braking brings.

It's a shame Autocar isn't being sold here these days - they used to have an ASEAN edition sold here and published in Singapore and Malaysia - but I've got the issues with the 2003 and 2004 0-100-0 showdowns.