Power Steering Morning Stiffness

[k_leos]

I have a power steering problem the service centers at banawe and even Honda casa itself can't solve.

It is stiff only the first 5 minutes in the morning.. then ok na the rest of day.

What could usually be the cause? The steering pump still sound good they (even Honda) say. I got a pressure hose replacement (hose going from power steering pump to rack and pinion) when I got it serviced 2 years ago. But there has been no morning stiffness.. it only started this year January 2. Honda told me to use original which has bigger diameter instead of the replacement because mahirap mag pump daw kung maliit diameter.. but why didn't the problem come out the past 2 years. Sayang naman if I changed to a 13,000 Honda hose and the problem still there.

Has anyone encountered this? ano possible cause? I read in internet if the rack and pinion is going bad.. it has this symptom.. I got my rack and pinion changed 2 years ago using replacement too. Original costs 50,000.

Any theories? Any experiences?

[jick.cejoco]

I have a power steering problem the service centers at banawe and even Honda casa itself can't solve.

It is stiff only the first 5 minutes in the morning.. then ok na the rest of day.

What could usually be the cause? The steering pump still sound good they (even Honda) say. I got a pressure hose replacement (hose going from power steering pump to rack and pinion) when I got it serviced 2 years ago. But there has been no morning stiffness.. it only started this year January 2. Honda told me to use original which has bigger diameter instead of the replacement because mahirap mag pump daw kung maliit diameter.. but why didn't the problem come out the past 2 years. Sayang naman if I changed to a 13,000 Honda hose and the problem still there.

Has anyone encountered this? ano possible cause? I read in internet if the rack and pinion is going bad.. it has this symptom.. I got my rack and pinion changed 2 years ago using replacement too. Original costs 50,000.

Any theories? Any experiences?

You and your technician will find the answer easy if you perform a steering pressure test at a cold start and wait until engine warmup while the pressure gauge is still hooked up. There could be a problem with the pressure relief valve at the base of the pressure hose at the P/S pump

[Lew_Alcindor]

Something could be blocking the flow of the fluid. Then when the fluid heats up a bit, the blockage softens and allows more flow. Just a guess.

[k_leos]

You and your technician will find the answer easy if you perform a steering pressure test at a cold start and wait until engine warmup while the pressure gauge is still hooked up. There could be a problem with the pressure relief valve at the base of the pressure hose at the P/S pump

I went to a service center kanina.. they didn't have any pressure gauge.. are you supposed to insert this in between the power steering pump and pressure hose?

[k_leos]

Pinalit na kanina yun steering pump pressure hose... pero ito huge problem...

The steering fluid is blackish. I told the technician to drain it. He couldn't open the rack and pinion assembly tubes. So he tried to open the end of the pressure hose and let it drain there.. then he told me to turn on the engine.. he lets it drain while adding new fluid to the reservoir... this process emptied the steering fluid in the rack and pinion.

When I tried to turn the wheel.. the rack and pinion made a big noise. Later. After he screwed the end of the pressure hose and closed the reservoir. I couldn't turn the wheel. He kept turning it hard with big noise. He even jacked the car up to turn the wheel. After 10 minutes.. the wheel turns na soft na.. but meron pa great noise even until now.

The technician said the noise is because of air in the rack and pinion. Totoo ba yun? kasi when he tried to drain the pressure hose with the steering pump running.. it's sucking in the steering fluid from the rack and pinion.. masira ba ang rack and pinion when you turn it without fluid??

[jaypee10]

ung sa honda ko naman dati ayaw pumasok ng kambyo sa umaga .kailangan pang painitin ng mga 5 mins baga ka maka pag pasok ng kambyo..yan ba mga problema ng honda

[yapoy86]

Pinalit na kanina yun steering pump pressure hose... pero ito huge problem...

The steering fluid is blackish. I told the technician to drain it. He couldn't open the rack and pinion assembly tubes. So he tried to open the end of the pressure hose and let it drain there.. then he told me to turn on the engine.. he lets it drain while adding new fluid to the reservoir... this process emptied the steering fluid in the rack and pinion.

When I tried to turn the wheel.. the rack and pinion made a big noise. Later. After he screwed the end of the pressure hose and closed the reservoir. I couldn't turn the wheel. He kept turning it hard with big noise. He even jacked the car up to turn the wheel. After 10 minutes.. the wheel turns na soft na.. but meron pa great noise even until now.

The technician said the noise is because of air in the rack and pinion. Totoo ba yun? kasi when he tried to drain the pressure hose with the steering pump running.. it's sucking in the steering fluid from the rack and pinion.. masira ba ang rack and pinion when you turn it without fluid??

kung blackish na yung power steering fluid malamang may problem yung steering pump.. baka mahina na ang pressure at lumalakas lang pang nag expand na yung power steering fluid. usually pag unang andar ng power steering may vibrating noise ka lang na madidinig habang napupuno yung buong system ng fluid lalo na pag bago yung high pressure hose na dapat mawala din.

hindi naman masisira yan rack and pinion kahit walang fluid.. ang masisira dyan yung pump pag walang fluid

[yebo]

that happened to my sorento. flushing lang ng steering fluid kasi dark color na (same as in your case). wala na sa tamang viscosity yung fluid kaya matigas sa first few minutes. after napalitan ng fluid ok na ulit siya.

[papi smith]

Yan talaga ang solution sa morning stiffness, you need to change the fluid.

[k_leos]

Paano mag flush ng steering fluid...

yun service center na operating since 2011.. hindi sila marunong mag flush... the most veteran of the technician tried removing the end of the pressure hose... pero black pa rin liquid after na attempted flush...

dapat ba dalhin sa Honda casa for example para ma flush using machine?

[Sleepcare]

Yung ginagawa lang ng backyard mechanic namin is drain, fill, turn steering then repeat hanggang maging clear na yung fluid.

[yebo]

may drain plug sa rack and pinion tube. drain dun, fill, start engine and slowly turn steering left and right several times, and shut off engine. repeat drain-fill-turn until fluid in reservoir is clean.

pag hindi ma-open yun drain plug disconnect return line to steering pump, run engine then continuous filling sa reservoir. make sure steering wheel is at almost center so that the draining of fluid from the return line is slow. pag naka full turn ang steering mabilis ang flow.

[k_leos]

Now one day later.. the rack and pinion still makes noises...

before the mechanic replaced the pressure hose yesterday.. wala naman noises..

tanong.. how long pag empty ang rack and pinion and you turn the wheel before it can get damaged..

and when there are noises.. what exactly makes noises inside the rack and pinion.. san part inside? sa rotary valve? i'm studying all the details in the rack and pinion

[jick.cejoco]

Now one day later.. the rack and pinion still makes noises...

before the mechanic replaced the pressure hose yesterday.. wala naman noises..

tanong.. how long pag empty ang rack and pinion and you turn the wheel before it can get damaged..

and when there are noises.. what exactly makes noises inside the rack and pinion.. san part inside? sa rotary valve? i'm studying all the details in the rack and pinion

The rack and pinion gear don't usually make noise other than the bottoming at full left or full right. Perhaps you are referring to the pump growl.
The cavitation or foaming of the fluid does or, if the internal cam ring where the sliding vanes slide from has already created wear ridges.

[k_leos]

The rack and pinion gear don't usually make noise other than the bottoming at full left or full right. Perhaps you are referring to the pump growl.
The cavitation or foaming of the fluid does or, if the internal cam ring where the sliding vanes slide from has already created wear ridges.

Kung sira na rack and pinion.. ano part inside making noises?

[k_leos]

To mga experts sa power steering or kahit not so experts..

ask ko lang.. a mechanico who was not used to flushing power steering system attempted to flush it by opening partially the pressure switch valve at the pressure hose and then adding new brake fluid to the reservoir.. then after 5 minutes. He closed the valve. Then when we tried to turn the wheel.. hindi na ma turn yun wheel...

any theory why it happened? My theory was so much air was introduced to the rack and pinion that it can no longer work.. but tama ba itong theory.. I mean.. kahit kunting steering hindi possible.. can air in rack and pinion totally make it non-functional or diba dapat makaroon rin ng power assist kahit kunti?

If hindi ito reason.. ano iba reason? Bakit hindi ma turn yun wheel after the incorrect flush attempt? I learnt from you na dapat sa return hose i-drain but since he has no experience.. hindi nagawa ito.

After trying to turn the wheel for 20 minutes.. then nag soft ulit but with huge sound that disappeared after 2 days.

I brought it to Honda now to have them flush it since black pa rin yun brake fluid.

I just want to know why draining partially at pressure switch valve at pressure hose of steering pump system and adding new fluid to the reservoir can totally make the wheel so stiff that there is absolutely no power assist. Can air in rack and pinion totally disable the power assist? Or what reason if hindi ito reason?

Salamat!

[yebo]

yes air in any hydraulic system can cause binding or even complete loss of assist since the air needs to be compressed first before any pressure is developed in the system. once the system is purged of air the system returns to normal.

in your case when the fluid was bled off from the return hose the mechanic probably turned the steering wheel too much or too fast such that the filling up of new fluid into the reservoir was not fast enough causing air to be sucked into the system by the ps pump. the fluid can be drained from the return hose but care must be taken to make sure the reservoir does not run out of fluid by only turning the steering wheel slowly and to return to center before the level in the reservoir is depleted.

[k_leos]

yes air in any hydraulic system can cause binding or even complete loss of assist since the air needs to be compressed first before any pressure is developed in the system. once the system is purged of air the system returns to normal.

in your case when the fluid was bled off from the return hose the mechanic probably turned the steering wheel too much or too fast such that the filling up of new fluid into the reservoir was not fast enough causing air to be sucked into the system by the ps pump. the fluid can be drained from the return hose but care must be taken to make sure the reservoir does not run out of fluid by only turning the steering wheel slowly and to return to center before the level in the reservoir is depleted.

No, the mechanic tried to bled off the fluid from the pressure hose.. not the return hose.. pero he was perplexed why the liquid coming from the pressure hose was clean even though the liquid in the rack and pinion was black na.. obviously it was because he was putting new fluid in the reservoir while it is running and tried to bled it off the pressure hose.. of course lalabas yun clean na pinasok nya.. pero the black fluid in the rack and pinion was still there.. not resolved. He told me he just didn't know how to replace old fluid in power steering system with new fluid. When he replaced new hose or pump.. he just top of with new fluid to existing black fluid. It was finally replaced na kanina by Honda. This gives me lessons some service center and mechanic don't know how to replace steering fluid with new ones.. and don't know how to bleed.. in my case.. he introduced air to my system.

[yebo]

^^ hahaha! sa pressure hose! at nagtaka pa siya bakit malinis yung lumalabas ha. engeng pala mekaniko e. anyway now you know never to go back to that repair shop.

[k_leos]

^^ hahaha! sa pressure hose! at nagtaka pa siya bakit malinis yung lumalabas ha. engeng pala mekaniko e. anyway now you know never to go back to that repair shop.

his reasoning is that the old fluid stuck in the rack and pinion can go from return hose to the reservoir.. then from reservoir to the pressure hose.. what's wrong talaga if pressure hose ang gawing drain? He also moved the wheel lock to lock.. pero afterwards hindi na magalaw steering wheel kasi napuno ata ng air.

pero tanong.. before ko pina replace steering fluid sa Honda.. nakita nila meron leak na sa rack and pinion.. and new rack and pinion costs 46k.. I changed my original (which also leaked) to replacement part two years ago and tinapun na original bec the old service center said useless na daw..

What I want to know.. sa bleeding procedure or draining ng steering fluid especially the pressure hose ang drain.. can it damage or initiate rack and pinion leak however remote the possibility? kasi I''m thinking if the service center na hind marunong pina leak pa nila rack and pinion ko...