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  1. Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    38,973
    #241

    Got this from the email this morning. I don't know who the author is, but I am posting it for whatever it's worth...

    a well-crafted analysis to debunk criticisms (mainly from many Pinoy fight fans who suddenly became boxing "experts' after Pac-Marquez 3's alleged "robbery")

    Much will be written in coming days about the just-concluded trilogy bout between Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez in which Pacquiao escaped with a split decision, prompting Marquez and his trainer Nacho Berestain to once again claim they’ve been robbed. Having just conducted an exhausting review of the first two fights (see PM1 Analysis and PM2 Analysis), I would agree that in the prior fights there was room for them to make such a case because, in large part, the punchstats in those fights favored Marquez. He led Pacquiao in overall punches and power punches in both fights. I actually had Pacquaio winning PM1 by 1 point, and losing PM2 by 1 point. So I’m not coming from a place of partisan blindness. But here’s the thing — I’ve been looking at the stats for the just concluded PM3, which no one has had a chance to digest yet, and comparing them to PM1 and PM2. These stats don’ t lie, and they favor Manny Pacquiao, decisively.
    Pacquiao’s punchstats reveal a clear victory
    Compubox punchstats are not everything–there are times when outcomes don’t track with them. But that’s rare, and the realizty is that in the absence of knockdowns, punchstats generally correlate over 97% with scoring, meaning 97% of the time the judges and compubox are in agreement in any round where there is no knockdown. In any given round, the fighter who lands more punches, (particularly when he also land more power punches in addition to overall punches) almost always win the round.
    One of the key reasons Marquez had a beef in the first two fights was that in each of those fights, Marquez’ punch output both in terms of overall punches landed and power punches landed exceeded Pacquiao’s making it clear that in those fights, the logic for Pacquiao victories had to be tied to the 4 knockdowns he achieved. Marquez could make a clear case that in terms of basic boxing stats, he outboxed Pacquiao. But not so in this fight. Marquez did not win the “battle of compubox” — Pacquiao was comfortably ahead in terms of overall punches landed and power punches landed, in the process reversing the trends of the first two fights:
    Compare:
    Pacquiao Overall Punches Landed in PM1/PM2/PM3: 148/157/176 (up 19 in the last fight)
    Marquez Overall Punches Landed in PM/PM2/PM3: 158/172/138 (down 34 in the last fight)
    Here it is in Punch differential
    Pacquiao Overal Punch Differential PM1/PM2/PM3: -10/-15/+38
    That’s pretty dramatic.
    Now consider Power Punches
    Pacquiao Power Punches Landed in PM1/PM2/PM3: 100/113/117 (up 4 in the last fight)
    Marquez Power Punches Landed in PM/PM2/PM3: 122/130/100 (down 30 in the last fight)
    Pacquiao Power Punch Differential: -22/-17/+17

    Folks, I would submit that these stats tell the tale. Previously Pacquiao had to rely on his knockdowns to offset his disadvantage in punchstats. Indeed, prior to the fight tonight HBO made a big point of pointing out that Maquez had won 57% of the rounds to date on the judges’ scorecards which is consistent with his punchstat advantage. Minus the knockdowns, he wins at least one of the fights, and possibly two. But here’s the catch: if Marquez wants to rely on punchstats to claim he won the first fight, then he must live by punchstats and acknowledge this time it was different — this time the stats are against him and he lost a close fight fair and square. Pacquiao outpunched Marquez in PM3 and did not have to rely on knockdowns to demonstrate his superiority. Marquez claim that he was robbed is meritless.
    UPDATE: See Round by Round Judges Cards and Round by Round Compubox Cards
    Berestain, Hall of Fame Trainer that he is, was a fool tonight…..
    Knowing what had happened in the first two fights when going to judge’s scorecards, and knowing (as he should have) that his fighter was lagging behind in punch differential and powershot differential after having led in those categories previously — how could he be telling his boxer coming down the stretch “You’re winning”, inviting him to coast all the way home? That was pure tomfoolery. Pacquiao is the champ and, as Emmanuel Steward put it, you have to take the crown from the champ. You must win decisively. For Berestain to tell Marquez he was winning was criminally negligent. If Marquez had approached the championship rounds with the kind of urgency they demanded, he might have won.
    Mayweather-Pacquiao may now finally happen
    At last, Manny Pacquiao looks human. ”Dinomita” Marquez is “Kryptonita” to Pacquiao. By looking less than overwhelming against an opponent that Mayweather had handled in superior fashion to Manny, it may be that Pacquiao has finally made the only move that could get him a date with Mayweather. Maybe Mayweather will now at last feel he can beat Pacquiao — that’s what has been holding him back. If he feels that, now is the time for the fight to be made. May 5, 2012 — my prediction is it will happen and the closeness of this fight is a direct contributing factor.
    Was this a satisfying victory for Pacquiao or his fans?
    No.
    Was it a victory?
    Yes.
    14.4K:out:

  2. Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    619
    #242
    Quote ko yung isang sports writer comparing this fight sa golden boy vs pretty boy

    Jay Caspian Kang on the reaction in Mexico to the Manny Pacquiao-Juan Manuel Marquez decision - Grantland
    Manny threw more punches, but they reminded me of the "more punches" Oscar De La Hoya threw in his bout against Floyd Mayweather. In that fight, the defensive, precision puncher clearly won on the cards. This, from what I had seen, was a similar victory.
    Sa compubox mas maraming suntok si goldenboy pero mas solid ang suntok ni prettyboy. Eh bakit nanalo si floydie dito. Ganun din kay paki vs dinamita. Mas solid suntok ni juanma.

  3. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    36,826
    #243
    ^bro CVT, compubox punch stats is an unofficial scoring. it's just for analyst to break down the fight better for post reporting...but that's all to it...

    it can't be used as a record who won. since boxing is scored round per round...based on the compubox precentage wise lamang si JMM ng 2% so, mas marami lang talaga sumuntok si Pac. kasi pwedeng lamang ka nga sa pucnhes thrown and landed pero nagawa lang ng isang boxer yun sa iilan rounds then yun kalaban mas konti pero consistent for 12 rounds..

    this was really too close too call and it should have been a draw...both boxers didn't do enough for them to win...

    pinaka fair talaga na decision dapat is draw...hinde ako convinced na nanalo si JMM dahil nag taper down siya akala niya laman na siya but at the same time I also don't believed PAC deserved the win...yes he became aggressive the last few rounds, but it was too late and it was just a sign of desperation dahil alam nila na lamang si JMM sa points..well, judges has psoken, wala na magagawa...

  4. Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    2,555
    #244
    After 36 rounds, Marquez still a mystery to Pacquiao | Inquirer Sports

    HOLLYWOOD—The guy carrying Juan Manuel Marquez’s paycheck for his third fight against Manny Pacquiao had some papers for the Mexican to sign.

    “Get that away from me,” Marquez said. “You can have the money, just give me the win.”

    Ricardo Jimenez, a Top Rank publicist, replayed the scene for Filipino journalists on Sunday just before they embarked on the road trip from Las Vegas and gave them a behind-the-scenes look at the Mexican’s camp after Saturday’s fight.

    Jimenez painted a picture of a frustrated Marquez, whose retirement plans may not be the only one standing in the way of a fourth fight between the two warriors who have fought 36 rounds without clearly establishing who is the better fighter.

    A mystery called Marquez

    Marquez has offered Pacquiao a wily opponent with terrific counterpunching skills and, more importantly, a puzzle the volume-punching pound-for-pound king can’t seem to unravel.

    “After 36 rounds, (Pacquiao) still can’t figure (Marquez) out,” Jimenez said. “He never will.”

    Pacquiao won a majority decision at the MGM Grand Garden Arena. The decision opened up a possibility for a fourth fight, despite pronouncements by Marquez that he was retiring.

    Fourth fight may not happen

    Top Rank chief Bob Arum doesn’t think Marquez is retiring, but even given such an optimistic scenario, the fourth fight may not happen. While Pacquiao is amenable to another fight, Marquez is no longer as keen.

    “What for?” Marquez told Jimenez. “There’s no way I can beat him.”

    Perfect fight

    Jimenez said Marquez felt he fought a perfect fight after weeks of hard preparation and still did not get the nod of the judges.

    “If I can’t beat him the way I fought tonight, there’s no way I can beat him,” Marquez said.

    The 38-year-old, three-division champion earlier joked with journalists that even if he had knocked Pacquiao down, the judges would only “help him up and give him the win, anyway.”

    Marquez, using uppercuts and right hooks that cleanly found their target, had the huge Garden Arena crowd roaring every time he connected.

    Biggest mistake

    CompuBox punch statistics seemed to back up Pacquiao, churning out numbers that showed he was the busier fighter that night.

    Noted analyst Emanuel Steward said Marquez’s mistake was to fall back to his counterpunching ways in a championship fight in front of judges noted to favor aggressive fighters.

    “Marquez did not fight like he wanted to take the championship,” Steward said. “That was a big mistake.”




    im thinking.. both player did not solve each mystery.
    Marquez did not win.. so he did not solve Pacquaio
    Pacquiao did not KO Marquez and only win by margin.. so did not solve Marquez

  5. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    36,826
    #245
    Quote Originally Posted by jansky View Post
    Pacquiao vs Marquez VI

    VI = 6
    hehehe baka IV sir peace tayo


    anyway i find this interesting




    is it allow to drink aside from water?

    is this intentional or accident ung pag apak sa paa (round 6,7, 8 ,12)





    Image credited to Philboxing forumer
    nangyayari talaga yun pag apak sa paa dahil magkaiba sila ng dominant hand...pag parehong kaliwete or kanan, doon ka magduda na sinasadya...positioning ng paa yun eh look at photos most of the time na nakatapak si JMM sa foot ni PAc eh he was lunging..diba sa boxing ang steps if you're moving forward/backward, left/right ang unang igagalaw mo na paa eh kung ano yun malapit sa side na pupuntahan mo...so if you're moving forward and you're right handed mauuna mo i-step yun left foot mo...that's what happened there.

  6. Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    619
    #246
    Ang hirap ata planuhin yun aapakan yung paa sa boxing. Sa basketball pwede.

    Nung elementary nga ako, sa fall in line nagkakaapakan ng paa at hindi sinasadya yun,

  7. Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    348
    #247
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow View Post
    nangyayari talaga yun pag apak sa paa dahil magkaiba sila ng dominant hand...pag parehong kaliwete or kanan, doon ka magduda na sinasadya...positioning ng paa yun eh look at photos most of the time na nakatapak si JMM sa foot ni PAc eh he was lunging..diba sa boxing ang steps if you're moving forward/backward, left/right ang unang igagalaw mo na paa eh kung ano yun malapit sa side na pupuntahan mo...so if you're moving forward and you're right handed mauuna mo i-step yun left foot mo...that's what happened there.
    tanong lang bro.

    if it is bound to happen dahil nga sa styles nila, bakit si JMM lang palagi ang naka apak sa paa ni MP? at ni minsan hindi naapakan ni MP ang paa ni JMM?

    intentional or not? i dont know.

    hahaha

    edit: youtube video

  8. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Posts
    36,826
    #248
    Quote Originally Posted by usong725 View Post
    tanong lang bro.

    if it is bound to happen dahil nga sa styles nila, bakit si JMM lang palagi ang naka apak sa paa ni MP? at ni minsan hindi naapakan ni MP ang paa ni JMM?

    intentional or not? i dont know.

    hahaha

    edit: youtube video
    kung sinasadya yan dapat nagreklamo na si Pacman or yun corner niya...mahirap apakan yun paa ng kalaban dahil kung hahabulin mo yun paa niya mawawala ka sa balance...yun natapakan based sa photos JMM was trying to go for a liver shot so kailangan talaga mag step forward yun left foot niya to get the angle...

    si JMM kasi look at his stance basic na basic while si Pacman magalawa not the typical na stance kaya nga sinasabi yun mga suntok niya ang daming angles nanggagaling you can't do that kung ang stance mo eh parang kay JMM...

    believe me mahirap habulin yun paa ng kalaban para tapakan dahil mawawala ka sa balance.

  9. Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    348
    #249
    Quote Originally Posted by shadow View Post
    kung sinasadya yan dapat nagreklamo na si Pacman or yun corner niya...mahirap apakan yun paa ng kalaban dahil kung hahabulin mo yun paa niya mawawala ka sa balance...yun natapakan based sa photos JMM was trying to go for a liver shot so kailangan talaga mag step forward yun left foot niya to get the angle...

    believe me mahirap habulin yun paa ng kalaban para tapakan dahil mawawala ka sa balance.
    may nabasa ako. old school trick yan. tinuturo talaga sa mga boxers yan. kahit sa isang boxing anime (Knock Out [Hajime no Ippo]???) na pinapalabas sa GMA7, sinabi din dun. at inexplain ng trainer ng boxer. ahihi.

  10. Join Date
    May 2006
    Posts
    6,931
    #250
    Quote Originally Posted by jansky View Post
    After 36 rounds, Marquez still a mystery to Pacquiao | Inquirer Sports

    HOLLYWOOD—The guy carrying Juan Manuel Marquez’s paycheck for his third fight against Manny Pacquiao had some papers for the Mexican to sign.

    “Get that away from me,” Marquez said. “You can have the money, just give me the win.”

    Ricardo Jimenez, a Top Rank publicist, replayed the scene for Filipino journalists on Sunday just before they embarked on the road trip from Las Vegas and gave them a behind-the-scenes look at the Mexican’s camp after Saturday’s fight.

    Jimenez painted a picture of a frustrated Marquez, whose retirement plans may not be the only one standing in the way of a fourth fight between the two warriors who have fought 36 rounds without clearly establishing who is the better fighter.

    A mystery called Marquez

    Marquez has offered Pacquiao a wily opponent with terrific counterpunching skills and, more importantly, a puzzle the volume-punching pound-for-pound king can’t seem to unravel.

    “After 36 rounds, (Pacquiao) still can’t figure (Marquez) out,” Jimenez said. “He never will.”

    Pacquiao won a majority decision at the MGM Grand Garden Arena. The decision opened up a possibility for a fourth fight, despite pronouncements by Marquez that he was retiring.

    Fourth fight may not happen

    Top Rank chief Bob Arum doesn’t think Marquez is retiring, but even given such an optimistic scenario, the fourth fight may not happen. While Pacquiao is amenable to another fight, Marquez is no longer as keen.

    “What for?” Marquez told Jimenez. “There’s no way I can beat him.”

    Perfect fight

    Jimenez said Marquez felt he fought a perfect fight after weeks of hard preparation and still did not get the nod of the judges.

    “If I can’t beat him the way I fought tonight, there’s no way I can beat him,” Marquez said.

    The 38-year-old, three-division champion earlier joked with journalists that even if he had knocked Pacquiao down, the judges would only “help him up and give him the win, anyway.”

    Marquez, using uppercuts and right hooks that cleanly found their target, had the huge Garden Arena crowd roaring every time he connected.

    Biggest mistake

    CompuBox punch statistics seemed to back up Pacquiao, churning out numbers that showed he was the busier fighter that night.

    Noted analyst Emanuel Steward said Marquez’s mistake was to fall back to his counterpunching ways in a championship fight in front of judges noted to favor aggressive fighters.

    “Marquez did not fight like he wanted to take the championship,” Steward said. “That was a big mistake.”




    im thinking.. both player did not solve each mystery.
    Marquez did not win.. so he did not solve Pacquaio
    Pacquiao did not KO Marquez and only win by margin.. so did not solve Marquez
    There is....KNOCK HIM OUT!!

Manny Pacquiao vs Juan Manuel Marquez 3 24/7 part 1( The official 24/7)