Kidney Dialysis Side Effects

**uls** · October 28th, 2006 10:30 PM

In a free market economy, sellers of products and/or services will always price their products and/or services as high as the market can bear.

And when it comes to treatment (products/services) for life-threatening illness, no matter how high the cost, there will always be people who will produce the money to pay for the treatment.

If someone is willing to pay P50,000 per pill, then the market price will be P50,000 per pill.

That's the way it is. U wanna live, come up with the money.

Kinda like nature's natural selection process.... survival of the fittest. In the case of human beings, natural selection is economic, not biologic.

People who can't afford treatment just die. People who can afford live a little longer.

cruel world no?

**Monseratto** · October 28th, 2006 11:22 PM

Cancer and renal failure are painful and sad for anyone . Talagang you'll see your love ones suffer. You'll feel what helpless means just watching them slowly go away from you. My Uncle would go into a depressed episodes and mapapaisip kang what's the use of going for treatment when it only prolongs ones suffering...

**Monseratto** · October 28th, 2006 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by cumbersome

There are many ways to take care of our kidneys, like drinking like plenty of water, moderating the intake of sodium and proteins, exercise, etc., but some causes of CRF, like glumerulonephritis, happens even if we lead a healthy lifestyle. Unfortunately.

Pati cancer, walang pinipilian...

**BoyFerrari** · October 29th, 2006 03:08 AM

There is hope in the future. Scientists are now finding ways on how to grow new kidneys using stem cells.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3216

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medi...p?newsid=49002

Maybe in the next 50 to 100 years, humans will find a solution to this.

**oldblue** · October 29th, 2006 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by smooth

just my 2 cents:

the thing with dialysis centers is that aside from the cost of the dialysis machine itself and the dialysate, anlaki ng capex at opex niyan. first you need the necessary permits from the DOH and several government institutions. ang strict ng requirements for a dialysis clinic (floor area, facilities in the center, etc) which ultimately translates to money. then you're going to need certain MOA's with certain hospitals (para kung may emergency at kelangan i-transfer ang pasyente kaagad). then you're going to need a patient transport of some sort (either your own ambulance/patient transport or a retainer with a third party company). and then there's the overhead. electricity, water, (probably) rent, taxes, etc. add the need for back-up power (cost of generator). and then personnel. kelangan mo ng licensed nephrologist (a sub-specialist). and a whole slew of medical personnel (md's, nurses, orderlies, non-medical personnel, etc). you might be surprised how much the capex and opex of a "tiny" dialysis center.

re: asian hospital. all i can say is, its asian hospital. its like comparing buying coffee from a turo turo or karinderia and manila pen. of course mas mahal ang kape sa manila pen. you can't expect to pay karinderia price for a coffee in manila pen. i sometimes find it hard to believe that people would go to a certain institution (eg. asian hosp, manila pen) expecting so much but willing to pay for so little. you're not going to walk in to, say, people's palace and expect to pay burger machine price. there are always government hospitals. go to a charity hospital if money is an issue.

i wonder. whenever people complain about the cost of healthcare in hospitals, can we tell the ancillary personnel (eg. orderlies, janitors, security guards, accountants, etc) na "fellow employees, because less than 1/4 ang nakabayad sa mga pasyenteng na-admit ngayong buwan na ito, 1/4 lang din ang se-swelduhin ninyo?" pwede kaya yun?

that's why everytime nadadaan ako sa Medical City sa ortigas at nakikita ko dami ng tao, jeep, tsikot, bus na pumapara dun, I can only whisper to myself, "there's another way people: 1k-2k a month and exercise discipline for the rest of your life." buying a bottle of vitamin c is even more expensive than this.

before ako naging active sa gym, I thought patapon na katawan ko after being hospitalized three times, 2 for alcohol abuse and not drinking enough water, and another for not drinking water regularly na naman.

there's hope. lalo na kung bata pa. isang duktor lang nagpagaling sa'kin sa medical city, and not from the medicines na nirereseta nya sa'kin. sabi niya: "the body can self-heal. dont dwell too much on what the internet and what the book say"

i promised myself never to go back to a hospital again except kung emergency lang coz I know healthcare is truly expensive.

**the josh** · October 29th, 2006 07:28 AM

D2 sa NZ, libre ang PD or hemodialysis and we don't re-use, disposable lahat. We have pre-dialysis case managers that monitors possible candidates for ESRD (end stage renal disease) and they are presented options whether to do home PD, home hemo or in-center hemo. Patients usually undergo psychological evaluations if they are fit and capable to do it at home. If they pass,they undergo training and eventually given their own machines at home as well as all necessary supplies. Minsan pag hindi adequate yung bahay nila for the treatment ay inililipat pa sila ng bahay na pwede

, and sometimes yung relative ang tine-train. I remember nung nasa Pinas ako (Ospital ng Maynila) ay every session pagkatapos I nililinis ko ang dialyzer (artificial kidney) at bloodlines manually! Pagdating ko d2 ay disposable lahat:cool01: ! Woohoo!Nakakainis lang at nakaka-frustrate ay hindi alam ng mga pasyente nmin kung gaano sila kaswerte, libre na nga lahat, iinom n lang ng gamot at paglinis sa katawan ay hindi pa magawa

! At the moment I am case managing 30 patients here at Auckland Hospital In-center Hemodialysis Unit.

**jipi** · October 29th, 2006 11:34 AM

having a dialysis will really drain someone`s savings....... Kidney transplant is a very good option specially the one caused by hypertensions, but sad to say kidney failure caused by diabetes and other disaeses like autoimmune disease like lupus are not.

kidney transplant is a very good options not because it will be cheaper on the long run but it removes the complications of multiple dialysis. like changes in mental states, iron deposits in the body, infection leading to sepsis caused by the i.v. sites and etc..

but having a transplant will make you shell out atleast 600T or more at private and 300T at gov`t hospital (donor not included) and after that you have to take around 30t to 45t a month worth of medicine. But the cost of medicine will be lessened as it goes. Cost may be lessened to 10T to 15T per month.

Problem is not all transplant are succesfull, due to tissue rejection. But there very high success rate if you belong to the good candidate.

For the cost of the dialysis, its really expensive but if you are spending 6t per hemodialysis, there are other very good center that are cheaper like 2.5t - 3T per session, just inquire on it.

I know in malacanang there is a free hemodialysis there. but i don`t know if its just the machine that is free. But to be included you have to be a certified indigent patient screened by DSWD. Based on what ive heard the line there is long.

take care of your kidneys....

**orly_andico** · October 29th, 2006 03:59 PM

Originally Posted by smooth

re: asian hospital. all i can say is, its asian hospital. its like comparing buying coffee from a turo turo or karinderia and manila pen. of course mas mahal ang kape sa manila pen. you can't expect to pay karinderia price for a coffee in manila pen. i sometimes find it hard to believe that people would go to a certain institution (eg. asian hosp, manila pen) expecting so much but willing to pay for so little. you're not going to walk in to, say, people's palace and expect to pay burger machine price. there are always government hospitals. go to a charity hospital if money is an issue.

*smooth,

i was saying that the cost of an entire course of gamma globulin for Kawasaki syndrome is around 20,000 pesos in the US and UK. so saying "mas mahal sa manila pen" doesn't cut it -- it's like saying manila pen costs more than the ritz or the waldorf-astoria.

profiteers lang talaga kasi mas mahal pa by a factor of 4 yung gamot nila kesa is 1st-world countries.

regarding dialysis, the cost of a single HD session in the US has been normalized at $183 per session (this is how much Medicare pays to the dialysis clinics). And the dialysis clinics have a profit of about $13 per session. (I got this information from a NIH study), so the cost is $170 to the clinic. that's all-inclusive and we must remember that

(a) labor costs for health care personnel in the US is astronomical
(b) opex is also astronomical due to very high malpractice insurance rates

$170 = 8600 pesos.

this is why i find it difficult to accept that some clinics here charge 10k per session. ang laki naman ng profiteering nila even compared to US clinics!

yung 2.5k - 3k mas na-a-accept ko pa yun. but i believe anything over 5k is ghoulish profiteering on the desperation of people.

regarding the 50-peso potassium citrate guy: that's sad. arguably it would be better to spend say 2000 pesos on 40 potassium citrate capsules rather than use it to subsidize one person's dialysis session.

**orly_andico** · October 29th, 2006 04:05 PM

i guess the saddest thing about the 50-peso potassium citrate guy is that it shows all too plainly (and uncomfortably) that money determines who lives and who dies. And in this case, not much money at that.

i mean dialysis is just potassium citrate writ large. in the end, it's all about money.

**uls** · October 29th, 2006 06:23 PM

yep mr. orly... money determines who lives and who dies.

and yep... it's all about money.

in a New York Times article http://www.nytimes.com/2006/02/15/bu...&ex=1297659600

"inherent value of life-sustaining therapies"

"if society wants the benefits, it must be ready to spend for treatments...."