Dengue thread

[dr. d]

there were warnings already over ADE (antibody-dependent enhancement) but Sanofi played it down

ah!
i think that is what one of the researchers meant.
...something like, "the evidence is there, but do not expect it to come knocking at your door. one has to actively look for it."

[uls]

WHO | WHO advises Dengvaxia be used only in people previously infected with dengue



1st infection - minor symptoms
2nd infection and so on - severe dengue can happen. That's what the vaccine is supposed to prevent.

so during the large scale clinical trials Sanofi can't test every single one of the millions of kids and just used age 9 as the minimum assuming that by age 9 na-infect na (in dengue prevalent countries like PH)

syempre there will be those who haven't been infected yet but Sanofi took the risk nalang

maybe they thought the numbers would be small

a few deaths can be acceptable

[dr. d]

so during the large scale clinical trials Sanofi can't test every single one of the millions of kids and just used age 9 as the minimum assuming that by age 9 na-infect na (in dengue prevalent countries like PH)

syempre there will be those who haven't been infected yet but Sanofi took the risk nalang

maybe they thought the numbers would be small

a few deaths can be acceptable

in my opinion,
it was a short-cut dictated by cost and expediency.
unfortunately, it came back to bite them.

now we are getting an idea, why medical research is so very slow and very very expensive... but necessary!

[uls]

ah!
i think that is what one of the researchers meant.
...something like, "the evidence is there, but do not expect it to come knocking at your door. one has to actively look for it."

2017

[dr. d]

2017

uls,
putol!
puede mo bang i-paste yung entire message?

ah. ok na. i just googled it. unang-unang pa...

i think what they were saying was,
the study was not designed to prove or disprove ADE...
but my thoughts, as well as others', was that the evidence was there, and should have warranted a closer look...

[uls]

there's a separate thread for this

Dengue Vaccine by 2016

i posted this in 2017

[uls]

.... and since then madami namatay

[Yatta]

in my opinion,
it was a short-cut dictated by cost and expediency.
unfortunately, it came back to bite them.

now we are getting an idea, why medical research is so very slow and very very expensive... but necessary!

The previous admin did admit, it was a choice of either letting more people die (and be branded as noynoying again) when there was a vaccine available or approve the vaccine and save lives.

[dr. d]

The previous admin did admit, it was a choice of either letting more people die (and be branded as noynoying again) when there was a vaccine available or approve the vaccine and save lives.

while it can safely be predicted that the vaccine does work on a historical basis (translation: it saves much more than it kills),
"that knowledge is not comforting at all, when it is one's child on the hospital bed, suffering from the vaccine's ill-effects".

while it seems nice that "it saved a potential 500 thousand children", it just seems immoral, that it killed a few hundred children in its negative effect...

history is impersonal, and can judge accordingly.
but we humans are too personal to let it pass..

[Yatta]

while it can safely be predicted that the vaccine does work on a historical basis (translation: it saves much more than it kills),
"that knowledge is not comforting at all, when it is one's child on the hospital bed, suffering from the vaccine's ill-effects".

while it seems nice that "it saved a potential 500 thousand children", it just seems immoral, that it killed a few hundred children in its negative effect...

history is impersonal, and can judge accordingly.
but we humans are too personal to just let it go..

On the flip side, there will be those who would say it was immoral to have denied a cure/vaccine to that child who was also dying in another hospital bed.

Like you I'm also in the business of saving lives, sometimes we can't save them all.

[dr. d]

On the flip side, there will be those who would say it was immoral to have denied a cure/vaccine to that child who was also dying in another hospital bed.

Like you I'm also in the business of saving lives, sometimes we can't save them all.

you are correct.
i suppose, it would depend, on whether one is an odds-maker, or a physician.

OT.
there is this saying, phrased by another medical person,
"the doctor is the only professional who is not allowed to make a mistake. i can not think of anyone who can live like that."

[uls]

madami naman vaccine na effective na safe

ung mga childhood vaccines natin

kakaiba lang itong dengue

pero pilit gumawa ng vaccine kasi malaki ang potential na kita

kokontratahin mo lahat ng gobyerno ng dengue-prevalent countries for mass vaccination

$$$$$$$


--


itong large scale clinical trial ng sanofi binayaran pa ng gobyerno natin

dapat libre yan kasi clinical trial

ginawang mass vaccination program ang clinical trial

[dr. d]

according to DOH, tumaas ang incidence of vaccinate-able infectious disease, traced to the public's fear of the dengue vaccine, translating into fear and rejection of the other traditional vaccines.

[dr. d]

--


itong large scale clinical trial ng sanofi binayaran pa ng gobyerno natin

dapat libre yan kasi clinical trial

NA-TUMPAKAN MO!
yan ang dapat ginawa ng opisyales natin!

[kagalingan]

ang deparment of health and food drugs adminstration eh masahol pa sa customs yan.

ultimo nga sukang-puti walang kamalay-malay na acetic acid pala.

Yung mga bakuna nung sina-unang panahon ang intention eh makaligtas ng buhay.

Ngayon eh paano makakubra muna.

[dr. d]

ang deparment of health and food drugs adminstration eh masahol pa sa customs yan.

the assumption is, the people above (the bosses!) know what they're doing.
they-down-below, ...their job description may not inspire unto them, to have the necessary knowledge to scrutinize the "project".

don't blame the bean counters.
blame the decision-makers.

[uls]

according to DOH, tumaas ang incidence of vaccinate-able infectious disease, traced to the public's fear of the dengue vaccine, translating into fear and rejection of the other traditional vaccines.

coz the public isn't very knowledgeable

natakot tuloy sa lahat ng vaccine

[kagalingan]

dok,

for dengvaxia = noynoy & janet garin.

sa acetic acid = charade puno

[dr. d]

dok,

for dengvaxia = noynoy & janet garin.

our top leaders have advisers.
but if the advisers give bad advice...
who gets blamed?
who should get blamed?
medical science is not as black and white as we might wish it to be.
in a nebulous world, anything can happen.

but in the medical field, "first do no harm".
easy to type. easier to wish for.
hideously impossible to accomplish at times.

my colleague said,
"the evidence was there. all one had to do, was it pick it up and recognize it for what it was."

OT.
if denggoyvaxia delivered on its hype, what will this thread be containing?

there's also the dizzying swiftness of events.. sabi nga ng isang matagal na sa gubyerno..."considering the amount of moneys involved...napaka-bilis!"

[StockEngine]

Cavite ouch ..