Military Hardware Thread [Split]

**StraightSix** · October 6th, 2005 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by bad driver

hey, cancelled na ba talaga ang f22 raptor? sayang

Almost ... but not yet. It was almost killed by Congress. The USAF is currently testing/evaluating the plane and training pilots at Nellis AFB. The first delivery should be late this year or early 2006, jocks in Langley AFB will be the first to get their hands on the new toy.

**ghosthunter** · October 6th, 2005 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by niky

Kaya nga sayang Rutan didn't go through with his "Mudfighter" concept. Rutan has a knack for creating very cheap and very sturdy and very WEIRD aircraft which fly VERY well.

The Mudfighter concept was very interesting. A low power jet-turbine set at the end of the fuselage, with the intake on only one side and a 20mm cannon on the other side. This is so that misfires and vented gases from the cannon would not foul the engine. Since it's all composite, it could very easily be reinforced with a couple more layers for resistance to small arms fire, and since the engine is small and electronics are minimal, it shouldn't be hard for even our airforce to maintain. And all at $1million. For the cost of a secondhand F5, we could get a bunch of these.

Since Rutan's mudfighter is not available, why not develop a Rutan longEZ based ground attack aircraft locally? We do have that much local technology & know how. We can use the existing supply of bombs and modified large caliber guns for weapons.

I think its possible to get the basic plane flying for less than the price of a Philippine senator's bullet proof Ford Expedition (or San Juan Mayor J.V. Ejercito's Porsche Cayenne).

FrankDrebin · October 6th, 2005 06:55 PM

How about communication facilities? Radar towers?

**StraightSix** · October 6th, 2005 09:11 PM

Originally Posted by FrankDrebin

How about communication facilities? Radar towers?

Since focusing on COIN, wala na sa priority ang air defense although with good reason ... afaik, there are functioning/active radar stations in Wallace AS, La Union, one more in Gozar AS, Lubang Island, and 2 mobile units in fixed emplacements in Palawan and Zamboanga City. Those 4 stations do not and cannot cover the whole Philippine area. Those familiar with Baguio City might have noticed the 2 big dishes on Mt. Cabuyao, ex-USAF yon, and used to cover the eastern approaches to the country. But an ex-USAF guy I know disputes this, saying that's what's been cooling Baguio eversince (electric fans)

To show everybody where the real priority is ... the only PAF unit that is up to date is the 250th Wing. It has the most modern and up-to-date aircrafts. The last acquisition made by the PAF, of totally new aircraft were Bell 412's and went to this unit. The 250th Wing is the Presidential Airlift Wing, and is used to fly politicians around. That's your tax money at work.

**zeagle** · October 6th, 2005 11:29 PM

Originally Posted by jaeger

I think this is already moot. the talahib was an issue during the Vietnam war when the 5.56 round was easily deflected when it hits tall grass.

To address this NATO issued the SS109 round (Belgian round by Fabrique Nationale, sometime in the early '80s) for the M-16 : heavier ball mass; cartridge had higher grain count, lower muzzle velocity to improve long-range performance but with increased rifling for more stable bullet flight.

For the M-16 to take in the new round, the receiver was the same but the barrel was changed to increase the rifling. If my memory serves me right, I think it was one twist every 9-inches instead of 1-twist every 12-inches. After all these changes, the new M-16 was re-badged M-16A2 and the SS109 round is still used til today, I think.

Diba Armscor made Strike-3 ammunition for the M-16, (yung 3-balls in tandem in 1 cartridge) tapos yung spread pattern is pretty tight. Na-try ko na to sa Camp Bagong Diwa early this year. Favorite ko pa rin 12-guage shotgun, kasi parang kanyon hawak mo. My bro.-in-law has a Valmet na naka choke for horizontal scatter. . . awesome.

Good point dude! Sa labas they use the new round but here in Pinas, we still use the old ammo. I think 1 in 7 inches yung twist for the new round. We can not use the SS109 sa local M16s here at sasabog yata yung barrel or something. Yung friend ko kasi naka Elisco and bought SS109 rounds. He was warned by a gunsmith not to use it in the Elisco.

**rhops** · October 7th, 2005 08:24 AM

Originally Posted by StraightSix

Almost ... but not yet. It was almost killed by Congress. The USAF is currently testing/evaluating the plane and training pilots at Nellis AFB. The first delivery should be late this year or early 2006, jocks in Langley AFB will be the first to get their hands on the new toy.

I think the F22 is the next generation air superiority fighter replacing the F15s. Kasi yung JSF F35 is a strike fighter replacing the F/A 18 hornet, A 10, F 16C. So parang complimentary yung dalawa so i guess raptor production would continue.

**StraightSix** · October 7th, 2005 08:58 AM

Originally Posted by rhops

I think the F22 is the next generation air superiority fighter replacing the F15s. Kasi yung JSF F35 is a strike fighter replacing the F/A 18 hornet, A 10, F 16C. So parang complimentary yung dalawa so i guess raptor production would continue.

That's the idea ... ATF + JSF, to replace the current mix. I'd hate to see the Warthog go, though.

**yebo** · October 7th, 2005 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by zeagle

We can not use the SS109 sa local M16s here at sasabog yata yung barrel or something. Yung friend ko kasi naka Elisco and bought SS109 rounds. He was warned by a gunsmith not to use it in the Elisco.

true only for the m16s that were manufactured pre-1970s (the ones with triangular foregrips). i used US issue NATO rounds in my m16 (Colt 12 inch barrel, 1-9 twist) ok naman siya. the elisco m16s actually have thicker barrels than pre-1970 made US m16s. my friend has one (22 inch barrel) and has fired US issue NATO 5.56, no problems at all.

**zeagle** · October 7th, 2005 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by yebo

true only for the m16s that were manufactured pre-1970s (the ones with triangular foregrips). i used US issue NATO rounds in my m16 (Colt 12 inch barrel, 1-9 twist) ok naman siya. the elisco m16s actually have thicker barrels than pre-1970 made US m16s. my friend has one (22 inch barrel) and has fired US issue NATO 5.56, no problems at all.

Hey I'm learning here.

**niky** · October 7th, 2005 01:23 PM

As regards the Rutan LongEZ. It's too light to effectively carry ordnance. We'd probably have to buy a larger platform.

Plus, civilian aircraft don't have hardpoints for external bomb and rocket storage. They might put too much stress on the wings. With helicopters, this isn't much of a problem as the winglets don't have to support the aircraft. Rutan aircraft would make good, cheap recon and spotter planes, though.