suicide and the church

[boydapa]

Asus nagbago pala ng stand ang simbahan sa suicide---ksi for me kng nalaman ko na di binasbasan at nilibing sa catholic cemetery yun batang nagsuicide sa davao dahil sa kahirapan eh lalong mawawalan ako ng gana sa kanila. sila na nga dahilan kng bakit dumami yun anak ng pamilyang dahil ginagawa nilang idiot yun parents tungkol sa pagpaplano ng pamilya tapos ayan nagpakamatay na dahil sa kahirapan ngayon di pa nila babasbasan.

siguro nakahalata na sila pag yan di natin binasbasan baka maraming myembro natin ang tumaas ang kilay. nakiramdam ang mga loko.

naaalala ko yun palabas na Kingdom of Heaven yun unang scene ata dun yun nagsuicide yun asawa ni balian yun yon time during the crusades nasa daan nlng yun bangkay. mortal sin talaga ata nun time na yun, tapos dumaan yun isang convoy na may pari pa eh pinugutan pa ng ulo yun bangkay/ something like that!

eto yun article:

Sunday, November 11, 2007
Bishops urge faithful to be strong in fight vs poverty

THE suicide of a minor due to the widespread poverty has prompted members of the Catholic Bishops Conference of the Philippines (CBCP) to urge the faithful not to lose hope in the fight against poverty.

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"They said the reason why a person commits suicide is because the person lost hope. A Christian should never lose hope even if he is being surrounded by so many difficulties in life. A Christian has always something to look up to and that is God," says Bishop Leonardo Medroso, head of the Episcopal Commission on Canon Law of the Catholic Bishops' Conference of the Philippines (ECCL-CBCP).

Medroso issued the reminder to the faithful in view of the recent case of suicide of a 12-year-old girl in Davao City.

He said the Church views suicide as not a good deed that's why those who commit such act are called public sinners and they are not given funeral rites.

"The presumption would be that the one who committed the crime or the bad deed has to be punished accordingly, but that is just a presumption. When it comes to individual cases for example the case in Davao, the one concern, the bishop or the parish priest in that place, has to hear the reason why she committed suicide. So from the narration of some relatives perhaps, then we would make a decision whether to give a funeral rites or not," said Medroso.

But Lingayen-Dagupan Archbishop Oscar Cruz said the Catholic Church reversed its discipline on suicide victims due to the advancement of behavioral sciences.

"After years of the advancement of behavioral sciences the Church is convinced that those who commit suicide are not themselves and consequently the presumption is that they lack the necessary deliberation to commit a mortal offense against the giver of life and therefore there is now a relaxation of the law of funeral blessing and burial for those who commit suicide," Cruz, a Canon law expert, told reporters.

"If formerly they were denied of the funeral rites and even the burial in a Catholic cemetery, now those practices no longer hold true. I think all experts of psychology and psychiatry are one in saying that all those who killed themselves are not in their right mind," he added.

Mariannet Amper, 12 years old resident of Davao City, committed suicide last Nov. 2 by hanging herself after losing hope over her family's miserable condition. (Marie Neri/Sunnex)

Source: Pilipino Star

[uls]

PR problem yan sa catholic church.

Kung hindi nila bigyan ng catholic burial ang bata, the church would look totally insensitive.

That's why they have to bend their rules.

[Stoner]

I would say more about the matter, but I don't want to offend anybody.

Suffice to say that in the end, the Roman Catholic Church is still just a HUMAN organization. So I urge the faithful to have an open mind about morality issues plaguing our society today.

[wildthing]

boydapa...may technicality ka sa pag quote ng articles (as per TCash rule)...

[niky]

When I was young, that was the party line, still... commit suicide, go straight to hell.

I don't know when the Roman Catholic Church reversed itself... maybe during Vatican II?

You can't blame the child for what she has done... they probably should allow Christian rites for the girl.

[mazdamazda]

IMO - being beholden to receiving such "burial rites and blessings" and being buried in a "Catholic cemetery" isn't the end all of being a Christian or a Catholic for that matter.

That decision is still up to God. As stoner pointed out, the church is still a human organization and at times may have been wrong in some of its decisions.

[boydapa]

sori! hindi ksi ako marunong mag post ng article eh. the article was taken from PIlipino star!

ah may Gcash ako! magkano? ano ba yan Gcash na yan? may cash ka kapag may technical violation ka? pm ko nlng yun globe number ko kanino po ba? hehe

[dprox]

Oops. Another one: "Unable to buy medicine for lingering illness, poor farmer hangs self" (PhilStar 14 Nov, p12). Mukhang napapauso na.

OK, boydapa, here's what I gathered from Church sources.

In criminal law, there's a difference between murder and manslaughter.
In a murder, the killer has full knowledge and full consent. Otherwise, it's manslaughter.
Both are evil, but the second lacks intent and therefore is less culpable.

In suicide, the killer and the victim are one and the same person.

BUT as Archbishop Cruz said, a deeper understanding of suicide cases has resulted in a modified application of church laws, based on compassion for the killer/victim. Why? The science of Psychopathology has lately revealed that some suicides might not have full knowledge or full consent about their action, due to a pathological state. The Church does listen to science, so it's up for the local pastor to decide - based on evidence in each case - if the person can be given full burial rites. Here are other helpful pointers:

• Your eternal destination greatly depends on your final dispositions in the moment of death.
• The ultimate Judge is Jesus Christ.
• Ultimately, only God can know and judge the victim/victimizer's dispositions upon death.
• You are guilty only if you have full knowlege and full consent.
• To confirm total guilt, evidence should show it was premeditated and unrepented.
• Only God knows if you "do not know what you are doing".
• That's why the Church now adjusts its application of the principles, on a case-to-case basis.
• But the Church cannot change the principles themselves.

It is important for Church leaders to make sure that the general public understands the reason why a particular person is being given Church honors even after suicide, so that the public doesn't mistakenly conclude that the Church has reversed its teaching on suicide.

There is no strict "reversal" of Church teaching on suicide.
The moral principles remain the same: Thou shalt not kill.
Suicide per se is still evil.

[VtEC]

I would say more about the matter, but I don't want to offend anybody.

Suffice to say that in the end, the Roman Catholic Church is still just a HUMAN organization. So I urge the faithful to have an open mind about morality issues plaguing our society today.

not just the RC, but all religions.

sila na nga dahilan kng bakit dumami yun anak ng pamilyang dahil ginagawa nilang idiot yun parents tungkol sa pagpaplano ng pamilya tapos ayan nagpakamatay na dahil sa kahirapan ngayon di pa nila babasbasan.

imo, it's still up to the faithfuls yan.di naman kesyo sinabi ng church na magpadami e magpapadami na ang isang pamilya without minding their financial capabilities to feed a family.

[nismo26]

talking bout suicide

i've been to tri-noma tuesday afternoon
i'm in mc donald taking our snack
then someone jumped off from the third floor
and landed on the guy sitting below
the guy who jumped off was DOA in the hospital

Well guys, do u think it's a suicide?
i was there that time and the staff from tri-noma told me
that he's a employee there and fixing on the roof
two guys fall but only one is dead
as the report claim that he fell on the other guy sitting below
but there's no chair or anything to sit where he fell

[_Cathy_]

Pakitagalog

[VtEC]

talking bout suicide

i've been to tri-noma tuesday afternoon
i'm in mc donald taking our snack
then someone jumped off from the third floor
and landed on the guy sitting below
the guy who jumped off was DOA in the hospital

Well guys, do u think it's a suicide?
i was there that time and the staff from tri-noma told me
that he's a employee there and fixing on the roof
two guys fall but only one is dead
as the report claim that he fell on the other guy sitting below
but there's no chair or anything to sit where he fell

hmmmm, kailangan ang CSI team dyan

amp, murder yan bro, buhay pa sana yong isa kundi inupuan nong isa pa

[CVT]

hmmmm, kailangan ang CSI team dyan

amp, murder yan bro, buhay pa sana yong isa kundi inupuan nong isa pa

A case of being in the wrong place at the wrong time....

4505:vader:

[cutedoc]

nag suicide man siya she still has the right to get blessed by the priest, kung ang diyos nagpapatawad tao pa...

we are not god to put judgement on the poor girl, govt looks at the angle that the child was raped, what would that be for, to wash their hands of how bad our economy is and how poverty ruins the lives of many...

[Tovansa]

Simply to discourage people to commit suicide.

[pup2]

Sa NY nga it's a crime to commit suicide eh. Natawa ako when I had that class. Kung tumalon ka pala at nabuhay, may kaso ka pagkatapos!? haha . I surmised it started nung great depression -- sa dami ng nagpapatiwakal. I don't think it's been repealed though ... all the way til now.

[Flagg]

...naaalala ko yun palabas na Kingdom of Heaven yun unang scene ata dun yun nagsuicide yun asawa ni balian yun yon time during the crusades nasa daan nlng yun bangkay. mortal sin talaga ata nun time na yun, tapos dumaan yun isang convoy na may pari pa eh pinugutan pa ng ulo yun bangkay/ something like that! ...

OT lang: Kaya pinugutan ng ulo kasi it was the belief at that time in Europe na a suicide has a very likely chance of turning into a vampire, hence the pugot ulo.

[boydapa]

Flagg:

OT lang: Kaya pinugutan ng ulo kasi it was the belief at that time in Europe na a suicide has a very likely chance of turning into a vampire, hence the pugot ulo.
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wow! great ganun pala. matindi pala belief nila nun araw dyan. matagal ko na pinagiisipan kng bakit ganun patay na nga pinugutan pa double dead. hehe
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buti naniniwala na church kahit papaano sa science. dapat ksi ang thinking nila dyan ay "you have to save him from himself" at noon pa dapat nila alam yan.

[pup2]

They modify naman ... kaya nga may kagaya ng Vatican 2. It just takes them a while to make sure it's not only counter to other facets of the faith but that there's real AND lasting evidence.

[Flagg]

...wow! great ganun pala. matindi pala belief nila nun araw dyan. matagal ko na pinagiisipan kng bakit ganun patay na nga pinugutan pa double dead. hehe
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Last OT ko: Tsaka para mas mabilis manakaw ng pari yung necklace... hihihi...