The State and the church

**Gen. Miting** · October 30th, 2008 05:23 AM

as citizens, we should just dismiss the call as just a form of freedom of expression by our fellow countrymen. it just so happened that they are members of the Church. for some of us, if we ignore them or just dismiss them as a form of expression, it's like saying we are ignoring our catholic christian values over an admistration that is now perceived to be evil -> (full of corruption).

anyway, tingin ko wala naman na violate na separation of Church and State dito bec. the clergies/bishops are not holding public positions. ang masama ay ang nangyari sa Pampanga, a priest temporarily relinquished his priesthood to serve as governor. dyan tingin ko talaga may issue. regardless if the incumbent gov. is the noblest person ever to take such a position in that province, hindi talga maiwasan na may na-violate sa constitution.

**niky** · October 30th, 2008 01:08 PM

The problem with that is, it's not illegal to renounce your vows and run for a position in government.

The problem is, being a member of the clergy is not a guarantee of integrity... and sometimes, not even a guarantee of celibacy, or, where celibacy is not required... faithfulness to marital vows.

But some people, especially members of the congregation, assume that a member of the clergy is somehow "better". And that's a problem. They stop thinking critically about what that person says or does and automatically accept them at face value.

----

It's a very "safe" soundbite from the CBCP president... though... and I agree that we should try to overcome the complacency that has gripped the people in recent years... "masyadong manhid"... is the word that comes to mind.

**redorange** · October 30th, 2008 01:56 PM

Although the Philippine Constitution states a separation of church and state I don't see it present in government. I recall when I went to college in the Philippines and I would be required to go to immigration and the place had quotes from the bible all over the place. That should not be permitted if there is true separation between church and state. Remember not all Filipinos are Catholics or Christians for that matter.

**cumbersome** · October 30th, 2008 01:58 PM

We often hear 'separation of church and state' thrown around, but what does it really mean? Here is an interesting article about its origins:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/987191/posts

In a nutshell, separation of church and state prevents the establishment of a denomination as a government-sanctioned religion, and guarantees the religious freedom of individuals. Along these lines, I personally don't think that the bishops did anything illegal, but what they said was utterly irresponsible. They'll be more productive tending to needs of the Catholic flock rather than inciting unrest.

**Altis6453** · October 30th, 2008 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by cumbersome

We often hear 'separation of church and state' thrown around, but what does it really mean? Here is an interesting article about its origins:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/987191/posts

In a nutshell, separation of church and state prevents the establishment of a denomination as a government-sanctioned religion, and guarantees the religious freedom of individuals. Along these lines, I personally don't think that the bishops did anything illegal, but what they said was utterly irresponsible. They'll be more productive tending to needs of the Catholic flock rather than inciting unrest.

This is the correct interpretation of the constitutional provision on the separation of church and state.

Much has been said about the continued use of the pulpit by militant members of the Catholic Church to criticize government. Whatever the present administration's faults may be, the Church should step aside and devote more of its energy and resources to alleviate the plight of the poor.

Personally, when I hear "pastoral letters" being read during the sermon which tackles politics, I am very much disgusted. Thing is, I pay taxes (and resent every cent withheld from my salary) so I could rant and rave all I want about how government is being run. On the other hand, we have a religious order which is not paying taxes, and is on the receiving end of donations from government owned or controlled corporations (or maybe even gambling lords) and yet gets to rile people up under their supposed "moral guidance".

They can be spiritual leaders and spur people to undergo moral change, but they should never be at the forefront of political revolution or protest action.

If anyone has a direct line to the CBCP, this is what turns other Catholics off!

**gearhead** · October 30th, 2008 02:40 PM

If the church were concerned about the people getting poorer why don't they put all that wealth they amassed to good use? Just look at how rich the Vatican is.

And why are they opposed to birth control? Could it be so they have more souls to get donations from?

**niky** · October 30th, 2008 04:05 PM

Actually... yup. The Catholic Church has a long history of opposing birth control... to the point that the current Pope has even suggested that Catholics have more children...

But more to the point, to reverse its stand on all forms of artificial birth control would further hasten its loss of power and prestige. Something which is waning still, for other reasons, too. The outdated and chauvinistic resistance to the ordaining of female ministers and priests, for one... and the continuing loss of membership to other, more modern Christian denominations.

**cutedoc** · October 30th, 2008 04:40 PM

just a simple opinion, we've had the worst marcos, ramos, gma... i am sure the "angels" would be a lesser evil.

poverty is one of the main cause of the nation grieve... does the govt do something about it? yes they do in front of the camera, but beyond that they only serve to hoard money from the public...

**safeorigin** · October 30th, 2008 04:56 PM

OT: not all angels are good. lucifer was once an angel. he may bear the light but not all lights can guide people. you may not know that it's already a truck that hit you

**Monseratto** · October 30th, 2008 05:49 PM

Originally Posted by safeorigin

OT: not all angels are good. lucifer was once an angel. he may bear the light but not all lights can guide people. you may not know that it's already a truck that hit you

Nice one sir! In the US, most stand-up comedians interpret Catholic Priests = desperate child pedophiles. Many in the developed countries don't look at the Catholic Church that highly anymore.