Pope: Stephen Hawking is wrong

**Monseratto** · October 29th, 2010 03:38 PM

http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2010/1...-world/?hpt=T2

Pope praises science, but insists God created world

Stephen Hawking is wrong, Pope Benedict XVI said Thursday - God did create the universe.

The pope didn't actually mention the world-famous scientist, who argues in a book published last month that the laws of physics show there is no need for a supreme being to have brought the world into existence.

In fact, Benedict specifically praised - and blessed - science and scientists in an address to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences.

But he also made clear that part of the role of science is to reveal God in the universe.

"Scientists do not create the world; they learn about it and attempt to imitate it," he said.

"The scientist's experience as a human being is therefore that of perceiving a constant, a law ... that he has not created but that he has instead observed," the pope said.

That perception, in turn, "leads us to admit the existence of an all-powerful Reason, which is other than that of man, and which sustains the world," he said.

Hawking says in his book, "The Grand Design," that, given the existence of gravity, "the universe can and will create itself from nothing."

"Spontaneous creation is the reason why there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," he writes in the introduction.

"It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper [fuse] and set the universe going," he writes.

Benedict was enthusiastic about science in his speech Thursday, even as he set the Catholic Church's marker firmly in place on the existence of God.

"The developments of science have been both uplifting, as when the complexity of nature and its phenomena were discovered, exceeding our expectations, and humbling, as when some of the theories we thought might have explained those phenomena once and for all proved only partial," he said.

And he said the conference he was attending was "proof of the church's esteem for ongoing scientific research and of her gratitude for scientific endeavor, which she both encourages and benefits from."

**safeorigin** · October 29th, 2010 04:31 PM

yes... and the sun orbits the earth...

**uls** · October 29th, 2010 05:06 PM

Pale Blue Dot

wiki:

The Pale Blue Dot is a photograph of planet Earth taken in 1990 by Voyager 1 from a record distance, showing it against the vastness of space. By request of Carl Sagan, NASA commanded the Voyager 1 spacecraft, having completed its primary mission and now leaving the Solar System, to turn its camera around and to take a photograph of Earth across a great expanse of space.

Carl Sagan:

Consider again that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar", every "supreme leader", every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there - on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam.

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe:, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

Pope dude, i found no answers in religion

**ess** · October 29th, 2010 05:09 PM

And the world is flat!

**jansky** · October 29th, 2010 05:53 PM

here something to read on

i just grab it from NET

A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the
students, "Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The
atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks
one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a
moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over
here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would
you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you
could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't,
does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though
he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you
answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water
from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.
"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student falters. "From God"

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil
in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created
everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according
to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Again, the student has no answer. "Is there sickness? Immorality?
Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this
world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his
question. "Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly the
lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is
mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you
believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use
to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen
Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your
Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or
God for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable
protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to
that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science
has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of
His own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The
room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. "You
can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat,
unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't
have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero,
which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no
such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the
lowest -458 degrees."

"Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or
transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or
transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat.
You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of
heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units
because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just
the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom,
sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it
isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the
absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright
light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have
nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use
to define the word."

"In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make
darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This
will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to
start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can
you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student
explains. "You argue that there is life and then there's death; a
good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as
something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even
explain a thought."

"It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less
fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is
to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive
thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved
from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man,
yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes
where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you
not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a
preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the
commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student,
let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who
has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into
laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt
the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one
appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of
empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have
no brain, with all due respect, sir."

"So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your
lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his
face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess
you'll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with
life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as
evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see
it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man.
It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world.
These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it
does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is
just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe
the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of
what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart.
It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness
that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

**oliver1013** · October 29th, 2010 05:56 PM

**jimnyeatworld** · October 30th, 2010 01:36 AM

the story of Jesus Christ is about a universal being taking our form in order to tell us that we are important. this universal being had to swallow its pride, become one of us and even be killed by one of us.

that alone explains how important we humans are in this vast universe we are in.

ang labo naman yan mga scientists/astrologists na yan eh. everyday they look at their radio telescopes and see a planet/heavenly object get punched by another heavenly object. the impact alone if happened to us is doomsday scenario.

but the question is: how come it doesn't happen to us? they (the scientists) even admitted that we can only watch 1% of the near earth heavenly objects pero hindi ba sila nagtataka kumbakit up to now eh walang major event like the ones they're watching like movies everyday.

THAT's BEC WE ARE PROTECTED! and who is protecting us? GOD!

now i for one know Hawking's theory about the Black Hole and how it vacuums/holds the universe together.

kumbaga the center of the universe is the black hole. initially, I was disturbed by the theory/idea bec. black holes or black to be specific are always associated with evil, as white is to good.

so am i to believe that what really holds us all together is evil, black, or the universal counterpart of our universal being/creator?

raincheck. kasi hanggang ngaun i'm still shaken by that concept.

-----

but here's one thing i realized. I read somewhere that when Satan is talking to you. HE WILL NOT LIE. He will tell you the most logically/convincing thought almost as if his words are TRUTH.

and that is science my friends. we tend to cling on to science bec. it sounds logical. but Logic ain't the truth. neither is a presence of a system is a truth.

chaos is truth. hence, the chaos theory. and i tend to believe that. just analyze our lives, not all things went according to plan, but in the end, we somehow in some way got what we wanted.

**Dark Man** · October 30th, 2010 03:14 AM

Originally Posted by jansky

here something to read on

i just grab it from NET

A science professor begins his school year with a lecture to the
students, "Let me explain the problem science has with religion." The
atheist professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks
one of his new students to stand.

"You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes sir," the student says.

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Aha! The Bible!" He considers for a
moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over
here and you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help him? Would
you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"But why not say that? You'd help a sick and maimed person if you
could. Most of us would if we could. But God doesn't."

The student does not answer, so the professor continues. "He doesn't,
does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer, even though
he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can you
answer that one?"

The student remains silent.

"No, you can't, can you?" the professor says. He takes a sip of water
from a glass on his desk to give the student time to relax.
"Let's start again, young fella. Is God good?"

"Er...yes," the student says.

"Is Satan good?"

The student doesn't hesitate on this one. "No."

"Then where does Satan come from?"

The student falters. "From God"

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he? Tell me, son. Is there evil
in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? And God did make everything, correct?"

"Yes."

"So who created evil?" The professor continued, "If God created
everything, then God created evil, since evil exists, and according
to the principle that our works define who we are, then God is evil."

Again, the student has no answer. "Is there sickness? Immorality?
Hatred? Ugliness? All these terrible things, do they exist in this
world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"So who created them?"

The student does not answer again, so the professor repeats his
question. "Who created them?" There is still no answer. Suddenly the
lecturer breaks away to pace in front of the classroom. The class is
mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues onto another student. "Do you
believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor, I do."

The old man stops pacing. "Science says you have five senses you use
to identify and observe the world around you. Have you ever seen
Jesus?"

"No sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir, I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your
Jesus? Have you ever had any sensory perception of Jesus Christ, or
God for that matter?"

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"Yet you still believe in him?"

"Yes."

"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable
protocol, science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to
that, son?"

"Nothing," the student replies. "I only have my faith."

"Yes, faith," the professor repeats. "And that is the problem science
has with God. There is no evidence, only faith."

The student stands quietly for a moment, before asking a question of
His own. "Professor, is there such thing as heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"And is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No sir, there isn't."

The professor turns to face the student, obviously interested. The
room suddenly becomes very quiet. The student begins to explain. "You
can have lots of heat, even more heat, super-heat, mega-heat,
unlimited heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat, but we don't
have anything called 'cold'. We can hit up to 458 degrees below zero,
which is no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no
such thing as cold; otherwise we would be able to go colder than the
lowest -458 degrees."

"Every body or object is susceptible to study when it has or
transmits energy, and heat is what makes a body or matter have or
transmit energy. Absolute zero (-458 F) is the total absence of heat.
You see, sir, cold is only a word we use to describe the absence of
heat. We cannot measure cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units
because heat is energy. Cold is not the opposite of heat, sir, just
the absence of it."

Silence across the room. A pen drops somewhere in the classroom,
sounding like a hammer.

"What about darkness, professor. Is there such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes," the professor replies without hesitation. "What is night if it
isn't darkness?"

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something; it is the
absence of something. You can have low light, normal light, bright
light, flashing light, but if you have no light constantly you have
nothing and it's called darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use
to define the word."

"In reality, darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make
darkness darker, wouldn't you?"

The professor begins to smile at the student in front of him. This
will be a good semester. "So what point are you making, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to
start with, and so your conclusion must also be flawed."

The professor's face cannot hide his surprise this time. "Flawed? Can
you explain how?"

"You are working on the premise of duality," the student
explains. "You argue that there is life and then there's death; a
good God and a bad God. You are viewing the concept of God as
something finite, something we can measure. Sir, science can't even
explain a thought."

"It uses electricity and magnetism, but has never seen, much less
fully understood either one. To view death as the opposite of life is
to be ignorant of the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive
thing. Death is not the opposite of life, just the absence of it."

"Now tell me, professor. Do you teach your students that they evolved
from a monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man,
yes, of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor begins to shake his head, still smiling, as he realizes
where the argument is going. A very good semester, indeed.

"Since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work and
cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you
not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a
preacher?"

The class is in uproar. The student remains silent until the
commotion has subsided.

"To continue the point you were making earlier to the other student,
let me give you an example of what I mean."

The student looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who
has ever seen the professor's brain?" The class breaks out into
laughter.

"Is there anyone here who has ever heard the professor's brain, felt
the professor's brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain? No one
appears to have done so. So, according to the established rules of
empirical, stable, demonstrable protocol, science says that you have
no brain, with all due respect, sir."

"So if science says you have no brain, how can we trust your
lectures, sir?"

Now the room is silent. The professor just stares at the student, his
face unreadable.

Finally, after what seems an eternity, the old man answers. "I guess
you'll have to take them on faith."

"Now, you accept that there is faith, and, in fact, faith exists with
life," the student continues. "Now, sir, is there such a thing as
evil?"

Now uncertain, the professor responds, "Of course, there is. We see
it everyday. It is in the daily example of man's inhumanity to man.
It is in the multitude of crime and violence everywhere in the world.
These manifestations are nothing else but evil."

To this the student replied, "Evil does not exist sir, or at least it
does not exist unto itself. Evil is simply the absence of God. It is
just like darkness and cold, a word that man has created to describe
the absence of God. God did not create evil. Evil is the result of
what happens when man does not have God's love present in his heart.
It's like the cold that comes when there is no heat or the darkness
that comes when there is no light."

The professor sat down.

This is a good story! Keep the Faith!

**jut703** · October 30th, 2010 03:48 AM

I generally subscribe to what others might call Intelligent Design. As smart as that paraplegic Hawking may be, his achievements regarding the origin of life can never be considered closed and final. Same applies with all those scientists working with the CERN Large Hadron Collider. They continuously seek to get closer and closer to t=0, and yet even at t = x to the -nth power seconds, they are still not at t = 0. It's like high-school limits. You may be able to see what the limit of f(x) is as x approaches a, but you can never assume that this limit is the same as f(a).

And the reality is, science hasn't, and I doubt ever will, reach t=0. They will get nearer and nearer to that, yes. But infinitely there will always be the question of where it all came from. In Hawking's new book he claims that gravity spun all things and created the Big Bang. Fine, but where did gravity come from? Can it have existed without an entity making it exist?

Moving on, regarding the concept of the very common question, "If there is God, then why did this and this happen?"

Yes, God allowed evil to exist. In Christianity it is taught that God's greatest desire is for everyone to be with Him in his Kingdom. He sends His Son so we may, by virtue of Jesus' life, death and resurrection, be guided towards God. He wants to form a loving relationship with each and everyone of us. And this is where evil comes in. How can we prove our love for God if everything goes well. It's like saying to your girlfriend, "I will love you no matter what happens" but the only things that happen are good things. You can only prove your love through choice. And it is those who choose against following God that propagate evil - which is basically turning away from God.

It's basically a matter of perspective. You, for example you view Ondoy as a punishment from God. And then you can go on blaming and lamenting that why didn't the druglords or the corrupt politicians die of cancer instead of your loved one. But such a mentality is Original Sin at work. Original Sin is the human condition of always wanting to be on top. Always being number one. This inadvertently implies that you would push everyone else down. Alternatively you can look at situations like these as opportunities to prove your love for God. Cliche as it may sound but these calamities, along with everything else we experience in life (good or bad) are all but opportunities. Tests of our faith, our strength. Opportunities we can learn from.

I am by no means a blind believer. I always seek to understand my faith. I believe that as a human I cannot explain everything, but at the same time I cannot simply accept religion completely without critical thinking. I know that especially for the Philippine Catholic belief, a lot of things are screwed up, but all it takes to get the core of things is to use your head a little.

**uls** · October 30th, 2010 11:38 AM

why is it people think everything that happens to them has something to do with God?

when good things happen, God is rewarding them daw

when bad things happen, God is testing them daw

THINGS HAPPEN

Ondoy happened

nobody is running the show

the world (or universe) isnt a movie being directed by some cosmic director following some cosmic script

it's not like a director says "there shall be an earthquake here, a volcanic eruption here, and a storm here... Action!"

there's no plan, there's no goal, there's no script

things happen

when you get over that whole "why is this happening to me? what have i done to deserve this? is God punishing me? is God testing me?" why does God allow human suffering and evil?" thing, you will be free

feeling self important naman ang tao na lahat ng nangyayari sa buhay nila ay plano ni "God"

again, Carl Sagan:

Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe:, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves.

we're not special

we are a cosmic accident

the Earth is just a planet that happens to be able to support life

not too near to a star (too hot), not too far from a star (too cold) that water can stay in liquid form

there are other planets like Earth