The Middle East Problem

[safeorigin]

Definitely... spending more only makes matters worse. The idea that Obama's "inaction" is causing problems is the fundamental lie being fed the American public by Republican Presidentiables seeking an edge. Obama has definitely been taking too much of the wrong kind of action... though, to be fair... it's hard to tell what the right kind is.

Think the US and EU would be willing to drop another trillion or two dollars on a perpetual police action in Syria?

well, they have to because they're keynesians

[ClaNker]

Also, Obama didn't create the Afghan problem. Or the Iraqi problem. Nor did he set in place the extended police actions there, which were already going poorly before his term. He didn't create the Arab Spring.

The most you can accuse him of doing is supporting the wrong rebels. Only after John McCain told the world that those rebels were worth supporting.

Yah republicans, seen that floating around for a long time. Not his fault, it's the republicans.

[safeorigin]

republicans don't have a monopoly of neocons though... Neocons Are Back—But Not in the GOP | The American Conservative

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republicans don't have a monopoly of neocons though... http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/neocons-are-back-but-not-in-the-gop/

[niky]

well, they have to because they're keynesians

:hysterical: Congratulations... I actually laughed out loud!

Yah republicans, seen that floating around for a long time. Not his fault, it's the republicans.

Did I say Obama did nothing wrong? I'm simply putting things in perspective. And if you want to know what's really going on and who's really pushing America back into the fray, I suggest you read safeorigin's link... very interesting that it's a conservative publication... taking a very sobering look at some of the worst dregs ever to be associated with the conservative party.

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Those neocons are real stand-up bastards. They had the American public hoodwinked into supporting the Iraq war, and many people to this day still refuse to believe that the excuses given for the invasion don't hold up to the facts.

Invading Afghanistan, THAT, I believe, was necessary. It weakened Al Quaeda by taking away its physical base of operations and source of materiel... but invading Iraq did nothing but give insurgents and terrorists a new playground to grow and fester in.

TL;DR - We're in this mess partly because the neocons and their military contractor buddies love wars and wartime spending. Keynesian economics, hurrah!

The rest of it is Arab Spring. And that's something no Western government had control over...

[safeorigin]

honestly, the timing could have never been so impeccable! just when countries are falling into recession and depression left and right!

[ClaNker]

:hysterical: Congratulations... I actually laughed out loud!



Did I say Obama did nothing wrong? I'm simply putting things in perspective. And if you want to know what's really going on and who's really pushing America back into the fray, I suggest you read safeorigin's link... very interesting that it's a conservative publication... taking a very sobering look at some of the worst dregs ever to be associated with the conservative party.

-----

Those neocons are real stand-up bastards. They had the American public hoodwinked into supporting the Iraq war, and many people to this day still refuse to believe that the excuses given for the invasion don't hold up to the facts.

Invading Afghanistan, THAT, I believe, was necessary. It weakened Al Quaeda by taking away its physical base of operations and source of materiel... but invading Iraq did nothing but give insurgents and terrorists a new playground to grow and fester in.

TL;DR - We're in this mess partly because the neocons and their military contractor buddies love wars and wartime spending. Keynesian economics, hurrah!

The rest of it is Arab Spring. And that's something no Western government had control over...

The republicans are complaining because Obama is spending money on all the wrong strategy then he admitted he doesn't have a strategy at all hence he's not doing anything to address the problem of ISIS.

No need, I'm fully updated with what's going on between both parties and to say It's all republicans is just plain wrong. The idiot have spent over a billion in his "fight" with ISIS only to admit that he doesn't have any strategy at all.

Iraq have been stable until the idiot pulled out the forces, he essentially destabilized the entire region. Egypt thanks to El-Sisi is stable now but man that idiot in WH love Muslim Brotherhood, then follows Libya, & Yemen. Now he wants Asad.

Iraq war was approved by congress, you can't point your finger on Republicans alone on that one.

[safeorigin]

haha, iraq never was stable to begin with after they've invaded the country. there's a reason why black water had such a lucrative business there

[safeorigin]

hahaha, who would have thought The Onion nailed what's going to happen back in 2003. This War Will Destabilize The Entire Mideast Region And Set Off A Global Shockwave Of Anti-Americanism vs. No It Won’t - The Onion - America's Finest News Source

George W. Bush may think that a war against Iraq is the solution to our problems, but the reality is, it will only serve to create far more.

This war will not put an end to anti-Americanism; it will fan the flames of hatred even higher. It will not end the threat of weapons of mass destruction; it will make possible their further proliferation. And it will not lay the groundwork for the flourishing of democracy throughout the Mideast; it will harden the resolve of Arab states to drive out all Western (i.e. U.S.) influence.

If you thought Osama bin Laden was bad, just wait until the countless children who become orphaned by U.S. bombs in the coming weeks are all grown up. Do you think they will forget what country dropped the bombs that killed their parents? In 10 or 15 years, we will look back fondly on the days when there were only a few thousand Middle Easterners dedicated to destroying the U.S. and willing to die for the fundamentalist cause. From this war, a million bin Ladens will bloom.

And what exactly is our endgame here? Do we really believe that we can install Gen. Tommy Franks as the ruler of Iraq? Is our arrogance and hubris so great that we actually believe that a U.S. provisional military regime will be welcomed with open arms by the Iraqi people? Democracy cannot possibly thrive under coercion. To take over a country and impose one's own system of government without regard for the people of that country is the very antithesis of democracy. And it is doomed to fail.

A war against Iraq is not only morally wrong, it will be an unmitigated disaster.

the response is priceless

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hahaha, who would have thought The Onion nailed what's going to happen back in 2003. http://www.theonion.com/multiblogpost/this-war-will-destabilize-the-entire-mideast-regio-11534

George W. Bush may think that a war against Iraq is the solution to our problems, but the reality is, it will only serve to create far more.

This war will not put an end to anti-Americanism; it will fan the flames of hatred even higher. It will not end the threat of weapons of mass destruction; it will make possible their further proliferation. And it will not lay the groundwork for the flourishing of democracy throughout the Mideast; it will harden the resolve of Arab states to drive out all Western (i.e. U.S.) influence.

If you thought Osama bin Laden was bad, just wait until the countless children who become orphaned by U.S. bombs in the coming weeks are all grown up. Do you think they will forget what country dropped the bombs that killed their parents? In 10 or 15 years, we will look back fondly on the days when there were only a few thousand Middle Easterners dedicated to destroying the U.S. and willing to die for the fundamentalist cause. From this war, a million bin Ladens will bloom.

And what exactly is our endgame here? Do we really believe that we can install Gen. Tommy Franks as the ruler of Iraq? Is our arrogance and hubris so great that we actually believe that a U.S. provisional military regime will be welcomed with open arms by the Iraqi people? Democracy cannot possibly thrive under coercion. To take over a country and impose one's own system of government without regard for the people of that country is the very antithesis of democracy. And it is doomed to fail.

A war against Iraq is not only morally wrong, it will be an unmitigated disaster.

the response is priceless

[badkuk]

afaik there's a fair number of civilians living in ISIS-held territories, be it by choice, or "no choice". Do we expect a similar backlash should the US, Russia, etc. get involved the same way it did in Iraq?

Or will the people be more "understanding", given the atrocities that ISIS is committing?

[anonemus]

Tribal mentality is not compatible with the concept of nation state and democracy.

You're talking of Pinas? 😁