Lumalaki ang hypocrisy?

[AeonBlaire]

Ok Ok, so since anyone can edit the content of wikipedia, then 50/50 pala na ito ay right/wrong, hindi pala reliable tsk tsk tsk... sige sige ipapa shutdown ko na ung website... jooooowwwk....

They are teaching against the "ways of the world", yet eventually they succumb to the "ways of the world". Sa mga sermon na napakinggan ko, isang beses palang ung tungkol sa priests na "naligaw ng landas". I think they should include the "worldly ways of operating the church" in their "curriculum". Hindi ung puro "outside the church" ang criticism.

Yes wala naman talagang masama sa pagiging mayaman, yet they always say the rich will have a hard time going to heaven. I guess they are sacrificing themselves to help people . They always say we should be accumulating spiritual wealth, not worldly wealth, yet they accumulated properties and money. They are using the "ways of the world" in order to help them promote the "ways of heaven".

I think the problem is, the image and reputation the church is trying to portray is very much misleading and confusing.

[Emgeesy]

Ok Ok, so since anyone can edit the content of wikipedia, then 50/50 pala na ito ay right/wrong, hindi pala reliable tsk tsk tsk... sige sige ipapa shutdown ko na ung website... jooooowwwk....

They are teaching against the "ways of the world", yet eventually they succumb to the "ways of the world". Sa mga sermon na napakinggan ko, isang beses palang ung tungkol sa priests na "naligaw ng landas". I think they should include the "worldly ways of operating the church" in their "curriculum". Hindi ung puro "outside the church" ang criticism.

Yes wala naman talagang masama sa pagiging mayaman, yet they always say the rich will have a hard time going to heaven. I guess they are sacrificing themselves to help people . They always say we should be accumulating spiritual wealth, not worldly wealth, yet they accumulated properties and money. They are using the "ways of the world" in order to help them promote the "ways of heaven".

I think the problem is, the image and reputation the church is trying to portray is very much misleading and confusing.

i think we now know what your motive is. but dont worry, we are a free country. we respect everyone's opinions. pede po ba malaman kung ano religion ninyo ngayon? do you believe in the bible?

sana po, sa mga magagaling pumuna ng iba, tignan po muna natin ang ating sarili. wag po natin gamitin itong forum na ito para manira ng ibang relihiyon. meron po ibang forums for this. yun lang po. maraming salamat.

i think the mods should now close this thread since the thread starter acknowledged that his source wasn't accurate.

[froshie1]

Ok Ok, so since anyone can edit the content of wikipedia, then 50/50 pala na ito ay right/wrong, hindi pala reliable tsk tsk tsk... sige sige ipapa shutdown ko na ung website... jooooowwwk....

They are teaching against the "ways of the world", yet eventually they succumb to the "ways of the world". Sa mga sermon na napakinggan ko, isang beses palang ung tungkol sa priests na "naligaw ng landas". I think they should include the "worldly ways of operating the church" in their "curriculum". Hindi ung puro "outside the church" ang criticism.

Yes wala naman talagang masama sa pagiging mayaman, yet they always say the rich will have a hard time going to heaven. I guess they are sacrificing themselves to help people . They always say we should be accumulating spiritual wealth, not worldly wealth, yet they accumulated properties and money. They are using the "ways of the world" in order to help them promote the "ways of heaven".

I think the problem is, the image and reputation the church is trying to portray is very much misleading and confusing.

Hindi ko alam kung sino ang pari na pinapakinggan mo or baka iyong napakinggan mo ay nakapag spark sa iyo ng "hypocrisy alert" and in turn galit ka na sa simbahan. Again, may mga paring walang kwenta but they are not the Church.

The purpose of being wealthy is to help other people. Kagaya ng sinabi ko alam mo bang si Mother Teresa ay multi millionaire? $17M!! beat that!! But again nakinabang ba sya hindi.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL yeah the rich will have a hard time going to heaven, you know why? There's a reason to that.. sino ba iyong rich man na tinutukoy na hindi nakapunta ng langit? Does that rich man (being described in the bible) fit the rich man that you, me or everybody knows here that helps the needy, the poorest of the poor? Oh hold on, may nabanggit nga iyong pari nyan pero hindi nya sinabing LAHAT NG MAYAMAN.. There's a difference between lahat sa ibang mayaman. tsk.. tsk.. tsk.. Wag na tayong pumunta doon sa priest, basahin mo na lang iyong bibliya does that rich man (being described there) fit the profile of your favorite millionaire that helps the poorest of the poor?

[jonski]

Total eh mahilig maki alam naman sa pulitika ang mga leader simbahan sa Pilipinas ay dapat singilin na din sila sa TAX para makatulong naman. Nakakapagtaka lang ay sa yaman ng simbahan sa Pilipinas ay nung nagrarally mga magsasaka para sa lupa ay sinabi ng simbahan na dapat bigay ng gobyerno mga lupa sa magsasaka pero nung sinabi ng gobyerno naman na dapat mag share din ang simbahan ng lupa dahil sa laki ng naka tiwangwang na lupa ng simbahan na hindi nagagamit ay ayaw nila ibigay sa mga nagrarally

kristyano ako at simba parin ako pero kung may halong pulitika na sermon ng pari ay umaalis na ako ng simbahan. mas madalas ako magsimba yung walang misa....yung tipong nag ppray ka lang talaga.

[oliver1013]

Usapang relihiyon Kahit sa inuman pag eto naging topic di matapos tapos, panay last round pero mamaya last round nanaman

Napansin ko lang sating mga pinoy..mahilig tayo manisi Yun simbahan ganyan, dapat ganito sila,puro sila ganyan, puro ganito...yun gobyerno ganyan dapat ganito..E tayo ba ano na nagawa natin? Isa ata sa rason kaya di tayo naasenso kasi hilig natin bumatikos ng iba at makialam...samantalang sarili natin wala din gnagawa

Umpisahan natin sa sarili natin..kung sa tingin mo kulang pagtulong ng simbahang katoliko sa mahirap, bat di ka tumulong sa mahirap sa abot kaya mo imbes na magreklamo

Btw di po ako katoliko..

[Emgeesy]

Total eh mahilig maki alam naman sa pulitika ang mga leader simbahan sa Pilipinas ay dapat singilin na din sila sa TAX para makatulong naman. Nakakapagtaka lang ay sa yaman ng simbahan sa Pilipinas ay nung nagrarally mga magsasaka para sa lupa ay sinabi ng simbahan na dapat bigay ng gobyerno mga lupa sa magsasaka pero nung sinabi ng gobyerno naman na dapat mag share din ang simbahan ng lupa dahil sa laki ng naka tiwangwang na lupa ng simbahan na hindi nagagamit ay ayaw nila ibigay sa mga nagrarally

kristyano ako at simba parin ako pero kung may halong pulitika na sermon ng pari ay umaalis na ako ng simbahan. mas madalas ako magsimba yung walang misa....yung tipong nag ppray ka lang talaga.

sir Jonsky, mawalang galang na po, fyi, the government is taxing the catholic church sa mga business investments nila na profit oriented. ang hindi lang sinisingil ng gobyerno natin ay ang abuloy na binbibigay ng mga followers nila. basta non-profit na gawain nila, they are exempted. the likes of gawad kalinga, couples for christ, singles for christ, habitat for humanity funding etc. lahat po iyan ay exempted from tax kasi po wala po kinikita ang simbahang katoliko. pati sa mga parochial schools nila and community health care centers ay exempted din po sa tax.

pero ang mga business ventures & investments nila na profit oriented ay hindi po exempted sa pagbabayad ng buwis. if you dont believe me, check the BIR website.

tungkol naman po sa pagbibigay ng lupa at pabahay, ang simbahang katoliko po ay tumutulong sa pag gawa at pag bibigay ng mga lupa para sa mahihirap. good example of these are 'gawad kalinga' and 'habitat for humanity'. para sa mga hindi pa po nakakaalam, a certain percent of the funds for the housing and land acquisitions cost are funded by the catholic church. wag po natin isisi sa simbahan ang hindi pagbigay ng lupa ng gobyerno. hindi po sila ang DAR. hindi po ganun kadali na ibigay nalanmang sa mahihirap ang mga ari-arian at mga lupa ng simbahang katoliko. kung ganun man ang mangyari..eh di wala na matitira sa mga followers nila, eh di mga simbahan katoliko eh naging housing projects nalang. tama ba ito? bakit hindi po natin tanungin at hingan ng tulong ang mga mayayaman na "private" businessman na sa kasalukuyan nakatira sa mga malalaking bahay?

kaya pakiusap ko lang po, wag po tayo masyado maghusga ng kapwa natin ng wala naman sapat na ebidensiya. mas marapat lang po na tayo ay matuwa at meron mga grupo o sekta na willing gumawa at tumulong para sa nakararami.

wag po natin ituro ang kapalpakan ng gobyerno natin sa simbahang katoliko o sa iba mang relihiyon o sekta.

gaya ng sabi...nasa diyos ang awa, nasa tao ang gawa.

[AeonBlaire]

I am a Catholic. I believe in the Bible, as a guide, not word for word.

Wala talagang kwenta mga open source, lahat pwedeng dumawdaw, tsk tsk tsk, lalo na wikipedia.org, hindi accurate... Linux kaya accurate? Sabagay, may QA naman siguro ang Linux, wikipedia.org kaya meron? jooowwwkk ....

Hmm ano nga kaya ang motive ko? Wala pa kasing sumasagot sa main question ko e. O sige, I'll rephrase and expand:
1. What is the process involved in making an archdiocese a business entity? Much a like a corporation?
2. Hanggang san kaya ang involvement nito in terms of financial management?

Sino ba naninira ng religion dito? Ako ba? If its me, I don't think so, because I don't care about it. Religion is created by humans, not God.

Yes we should start with ourselves, so criticism is pointless and all forums is fallible, nobody is perfect kasi e. Sino ba nagimbento ng criticism e wala ngang perpekto... JOOOWWKK...

Criticism exists not as a venue to blame others for one's own misgivings, but to provide a multipoint expression of ideas so that others can improve. In other words, di naman ako nagrereklamo, just telling a friendly criticism.

Oo nga naman pala the priest is not the Church, they are only representatives .

The purpose of being wealthy, is, to accumulate wealth, what else? We don't have to be rich to help others. We have our own "natural wealth", from the moment we were conceived.

Accumulating wealth is different from raising funds.

Wealth is wealth, and the Bible is against it.

Mother Teresa maybe a millionaire, pero malamang she has no involvement in financial matters. She has no attachment whatsoever to that money. All she cares about is helping the needy, so her being a millionaire is irrelevant.

AFAIK nothing a priest would say in a homily will spark an issue of hypocrisy, otherwise they would lose their credibility. But eventually some people, like me, will discover that the Church is run by humans, on Earth, after all, and its human leaders have no choice but to adapt to a human's idea of civilization, otherwise the Church will eventually be dissolved.

[Emgeesy]

I am a Catholic. I believe in the Bible, as a guide, not word for word.

ah ok po. we respect your belief and religion.

Wala talagang kwenta mga open source, lahat pwedeng dumawdaw, tsk tsk tsk, lalo na wikipedia.org, hindi accurate... Linux kaya accurate? Sabagay, may QA naman siguro ang Linux, wikipedia.org kaya meron? jooowwwkk ....

oo nga. pero minsan mas ok din ang penguin kesa sa bintana? di ba po? hehehe

Hmm ano nga kaya ang motive ko? Wala pa kasing sumasagot sa main question ko e. O sige, I'll rephrase and expand:
1. What is the process involved in making an archdiocese a business entity? Much a like a corporation?
2. Hanggang san kaya ang involvement nito in terms of financial management?

brod, hindi po business entity ang archdiocese ng maynila. paki basa nalang po yung pinost ko na kahaba haba quoted from their website. noong isang araw pa po nasagot tanong ninyo, hindi ninyo lang po binabasa mga post ng iba. paki basa nalang po for your perusal. salamat po. tungkola naman po sa ikalawang tanong ninyo, nadun din po yung sagot sa mga nilagay ko. pero para maliwanagan po kayo eh susubukan ko sagoting isa isa ang tanong ninyo. sana po ay mabigyan liwanag ang inyong katanongan.

1. as ive said, it is not a business entity. church and governement seperation of powers as per our constitution. the government will only tax the church if and when they are involved in profit oriented ventures. donations aren't covered by our tax law. the sec registration of a company will state if it is a corporation(business entity) or non-profit org etc.

2. brod, the church hire or sometimes thru pro bono--accountants, lawyers, liason officers etc to do the job when it comes to financial matters. the involvement of priests in business transaction depends on the complexity, scale, orientation, services, etc.

Sino ba naninira ng religion dito? Ako ba? If its me, I don't think so, because I don't care about it. Religion is created by humans, not God.

brod, please refer to your previous post. "They are teaching against the "ways of the world", yet eventually they succumb to the "ways of the world". Sa mga sermon na napakinggan ko, isang beses palang ung tungkol sa priests na "naligaw ng landas". I think they should include the "worldly ways of operating the church" in their "curriculum". Hindi ung puro "outside the church" ang criticism."

Yes we should start with ourselves, so criticism is pointless and all forums is fallible, nobody is perfect kasi e. Sino ba nagimbento ng criticism e wala ngang perpekto... JOOOWWKK...

criticism is pointless pero tira ka naman ng tira? ano ba talaga kuya?
sino nag imbento ng criticism? baka siguro yung mga taong insecure at jinujustify nila mga pagkukulang nila sa mundo at sa mata ng diyos. ...JOOOOWK

Criticism exists not as a venue to blame others for one's own misgivings, but to provide a multipoint expression of ideas so that others can improve. In other words, di naman ako nagrereklamo, just telling a friendly criticism.

ganun po ba? siguro mas maganda na kausapin ninyo nalang yung parish priest ninyo para naman maliwanagan. or if you cant stand the heat, then get out of the kitchen as they say.. JOOOWK!

Oo nga naman pala the priest is not the Church, they are only representatives .

tama po yan. TUMPAK! tao din mga yan. pero ang turo sa bibliya ay perpekto at totoo.

The purpose of being wealthy, is, to accumulate wealth, what else? We don't have to be rich to help others. We have our own "natural wealth", from the moment we were conceived.

brod, ano ba gusto mo, ubusin nalang ng simbahang katoliko ang pera nila sa pag tulong sa mahihirap? eh di matutuwa niyan ang gobyerno natin at sigurado bumilang ka 100 days..ubos lahat assets nila.

ang pag invest nila ng pera sa stocks and being part of some private business ventures ay pagpapalawig ng kanilang assets para naman matuunan ang mga salaping kinakailangan sa pag tulong, pagpapalago, pagpapalawak ng kanilang paniniwala. kailangan po nila pera to maintain their church, give salary to their employees, pay the utilities, pay for their transporation, communication..etc..etc. siguro naman po matalino kayo at naiintindihan ninyo ang gastusin ngayon.

Accumulating wealth is different from raising funds.

Wealth is wealth, and the Bible is against it.

Mother Teresa maybe a millionaire, pero malamang she has no involvement in financial matters. She has no attachment whatsoever to that money. All she cares about is helping the needy, so her being a millionaire is irrelevant.

health is wealth. knowing the word of god is wealth.madaming klaseng wealth po. ano po ba tinutukoy ninyo? i dont think being wealthy that came from legal means is against the bible. meron ba sinabi doon na bawal magpayaman ang pari? :D JJOOOWK!

AFAIK nothing a priest would say in a homily will spark an issue of hypocrisy, otherwise they would lose their credibility. But eventually some people, like me, will discover that the Church is run by humans, on Earth, after all, and its human leaders have no choice but to adapt to a human's idea of civilization, otherwise the Church will eventually be dissolved.

you have a point and i respect that. pero siguro sa tingin ko, mas maganda na tayo mismo ang mag mulat sa mga maling ginagawa ng ating simbahan sa ating mga anak, asawa atbp. tao lang sila and they are prone to errors din ikaw nga. eh kung linux may bug din..pari pa. :D

[AeonBlaire]

I read others' posts, but the ones that are not a direct answer, I don't, and those (the links) that came from the very entity that I question (the archdiocese).

Kung hindi business entity ang isang archdiocese, kanino naka-pangalan ung shares?

I don't care about the donations. If I would question it, it would be in another thread, although the investments probably came from donations.

If they hire professionals to represent and/or advise them in finance, eh di malamang overhead un.

Ung mga previous post ko, hindi yon paninira. They are facts.

Hindi ako tira ng tira. I base my replies on what I read, including others' posts.
Kung ang nagimbento nga ng criticism ay mga gaya ng sinabi mo, daming tatamaan dito.

Kung kakausapin ko ang parish priest, no comment lang yun panigurado.

Based on what I read in other posts, ung mga taong insecure at nagju-justify lang e yun ang mga defensive (answering irrelevantly) at over-reacting (mahaba pero most of the content is irrelevant) kung mag-post.

If an entity cannot represent itself, then it is only as good as its representative regarding external affairs (excluding God Himself of course). Tingnan mo yung mga may mga abogadong mamahalin, as an example. The Church is only as good as the priests (general term) that represent it.

IMO the teachings in the Bible is perfect, but its form is not.

Para san pa ba ung donations? For example, kukuha sila ng donations sa middle-class, tapos ibibigay nila sa lower-class.

I do understand that they need money for their expenses, its inevitable, after all, thats why I said "the Church's human leaders have no choice but to adapt, otherwise they will eventually be dissolved."

I am just skeptical about the stock investments and business ventures, not that I don't trust the priests, but I think that there are persons (including some priests) that would try to "benefit" from those, if you know what I mean.

The Bible is against monetary wealth, or any wealth that can be converted to monetary wealth, ano pa ba?

Yes, walang sinabi sa Bible na bawal magpayaman ang isang priest, pero sa tingin mo ba magandang tingnan ang isang priest na nagpapayaman? That's one of the principles that is used by those that circumvent the law. At kahit half joke ito, meron priest na ganyan (nagpapayaman).

[froshie1]

Simpleng tanong, sino iyong wealthy man na dinedescribe sa bible? Hindi pinagbabawal ang pagiging mayaman.

I am just skeptical about the stock investments and business ventures, not that I don't trust the priests, but I think that there are persons (including some priests) that would try to "benefit" from those, if you know what I mean.

The Bible is against monetary wealth, or any wealth that can be converted to monetary wealth, ano pa ba?

Yes, walang sinabi sa Bible na bawal magpayaman ang isang priest, pero sa tingin mo ba magandang tingnan ang isang priest na nagpapayaman? That's one of the principles that is used by those that circumvent the law. At kahit half joke ito, meron priest na ganyan (nagpapayaman).

you're being judgemental mate. pero ikaw na din nagsabi some. since sinabi mo na ang some, some is not the church. even if marami pa yan it's not the church.

going back... again simpleng tanong, ano ba ang nakalagay sa bibliya tungkol doon sa tao na mayaman. baket hindi nya makikita ang kaharian ng diyos?