Boycott the Big Four (Petron, Shell, Chevron, Total)= Cheaper Local Oil Prices?

[Altis6453]

I guess we all have to cope with the fact that our lifestyles MUST CHANGE. Previously, I was already planning on getting myself an Ipod Touch, an I-Phone and a new lappie. Obviously, with the prices of gas, electricity, and other essential commodities going up, I've got lesser disposable income to indulge my wants rather than my needs. I'm even taking a long hard look at having LPG kits installed on my ride if only to bring my fuel expenses down.

[ghosthunter]

Time to go back to riding a horse?

[170kphlang]

ewan ko ba sa mga nagrarally na mga yan, lalo na yung mga kung ano ano binabato sa bldg ng mga oil companies. imbes na magrally kayo for that day sana nagtrabaho nalang kayo, e di kumita pa kayo, sayang yung araw na yun. sa isang minimum wage earner ay 300+ din yun

[jpdm]

In the end, whether we like it or not, we're at the mercy of the capitalists who control oil prices.

The local gas stations are making a profit, yes. Because their profit is margin-based... and as the price of oil goes up, obviously, the raw profit goes up, but the percentages remain true. They're only following the rules of the game.

By bending a little and lowering prices, they're trying to work out how far they can go and still maintain that margin. Obviously, it's also a public relations thing... they want to appease the people a bit and keep the rallyists from throwing stuff at their offices.

That's capitalism for you... whatever people will put up with... you can charge. And like I've said... if the Philippines as a whole is not willing to pay, they can sell elsewhere.

Yup, generally I agree with you with this.

If you really want to, fill up at SeaOil or Jetti... no one's stopping you! But as I said, such selective boycotting does very little. The only way to really stick it to the oil companies is to find a way to live without it.

Yeah, of course. That's the idea. Now, if you want to gas up with the Big Four, there is no problem also. No one will be stopping us from exercising our freedom to choose or satisfy our taste and preference...

In the end... let's all just walk.

Eventually, yes

And it will be the same story all over again, as they need to recoup the costs of their investment and make profit. Di ba?

This is one of the possibilities...

P.K. Ripper has a solution...

Puedeng-puede. I just hope LGUs should start building bike lanes all over the country like in CHina..

[niky]

And things are only going to get worse.

Estimates are that our remaining oil reserves will get more and more expensive to extract and refine... as we go into the next decade looking at getting crude from even more remote locations and from non-liquid sources such as oil shale, the cost of oil is simply going to go up and up.

[jpdm]

A few days ago a local think tank released their findings and said that local oil prices are overpriced by as much as 12 pesos per liter.

One e-mail circulating around mentioned that in order to compel local oil companies (even if they will vehemently deny it, they are nothing but a bunch of rotten profiteering oligopoly) to lower the local oil prices, we need to boycott and stop buying from the multinationals (Petron-Asshole este Ashmore-British;Shell-Dutch-British; Chevron-US; Totalfinaelf-France) which control more than 90% of the local petroleum market.

But we should not stop buying gas...we should only buy gas from local companies (hwag Eastern Petroleum-it acts as the errand boy of the Big Three) that provide some relief to inflation battered Pinoy motorists...

Less demand would mean losses for them and they be forced to bring their prices also....

What do you think?

The idea of this thread is to solicit the opinion of tsikoteers regarding the idea of the email of boycotting the big four to force them to lower their prices..

This is a public forum and divergent opinions are expected. We are all entitled to our opinions.

This was not intended to force people to do what the email has proposed.

I think there are many possibilities.

The proposed boycott is not yet done.

Thus, we cannot be sure if it will really work or not.

As the TS, i took the stand of the person who emailed it. And I'm opened with his idea because in my opinion it might work. Now, if you think otherwise, I respect your opinions and in fact, might consider (your opinions)as the better idea...

If I have hit some raw nerves or offended someone with this thread and with my stand, my apologies sirs....I only want to hear your perspectives and opinions...as fellow motorists and experts in the oil industry....

[jpdm]

This was the press release of IBON.

ABS-CBN Online
July 14, 2008
Ibon: local oil costs overpriced by P12/liter

[SIZE=2]
Independent think tank Ibon Foundation said that local pump prices of petroleum products are overpriced by P12 per liter despite claims made by oil companies that they have incurred loses due to “under-recoveries.”

“We are convinced that the global oil prices are bloated by speculations. The oil firms here are using it as an excuse to pad their pump prices higher," said Sonny Africa, head of Ibon’s research department.

Based on Ibon’s study, what is now a P60 liter for premium gasoline should only have been P48 and diesel prices should only be around P43 per liter, not the P55 posted on almost all gasoline stations.

"The local oil firms last year reported P10.5 billion in profits…but their mother corporation reported $62 billion in local profits," said Africa.

Ibon said that in 2007, Pilipinas Shell recorded profits of P4.12 billion as opposed to the $27.6 billion net income garnered by its mother company Royal Dutch Shell. Chevron, mother unit of Chevron Philippines, reported net income of $18.7 billion in 2007 while Its local unit in the country reported P2.75 billion in profits in 2007.

Ibon added that Petron, which is co-owned by government and emerging market investor Ashmore, recorded profits of P5.94 billion in 2007. Petron's former owner, Aramco of Saudi Arabia, is an unlisted company that is not obliged to report its financials, “but its profits in 2007 are likely about $15 billion.”

Ibon claimed oil prices could also have been lower if there was a temporary suspension of oil taxes. In their calculations, government have already earned around P80 to 90 billion on oil taxes just for this year alone.

Africa said that it is indeed a huge earning, which explains why the government is thinking twice on suspending oil taxes on oil to solve the country's crisis.

He cited that it is not the oil companies who really pay these taxes but the motorists and the transport industry who are charged for every visit at the gas stations. Africa said the oil companies served only as the conduit for the taxes to reach the government coffers.

"Problema sa VAT (value added tax), ang tanging nagbabayad ay hindi yung mayayaman... ang bumabalikat talaga eh yung mahihirap,” said Africa.

ABS-CBN News tried to get an explanation from the big oil companies but Chevron (formerly Caltex), Shell and Petron declined to give any statement. With a report from Ron Gagalac[/SIZE]

[jpdm]

Aside from the IBON study and the prevailing US prices of oil (as reported in newspapers), based my own assumptions on these....

2 oil firms earned P70B, says lawmaker

Philippine Daily Inquirer
July 21, 2008


MANILA, Philippines—Oil companies in the country have been raking in huge profits amid soaring fuel prices, according to Cebu Rep. Eduardo Gullas.
But Petron Corp. said its earnings were small compared with other industries, while Pilipinas Shell Petroleum Corp. said it was just making “reasonable financial returns.”


Pilipinas Shell and Petron have accumulated a combined net profit of almost P70 billion since the law was passed 10 years ago, the lawmaker said, citing regulatory filings of the two companies.
Shell, which controls 31 percent of the domestic market, earned P33.59 billion from 1998 up to the first quarter of this year, while Petron netted P35.18 billion during the same period, he said.


Gullas said similar figures pertaining to Chevron Philippines Inc. (formerly Caltex) were not readily available. He said the last report from the company showed it had a net profit of P2.75 billion in 2006.


[SIZE=3]Aside from the possibility of excessive profits, Sen. Joker Arroyo said early this year that big oil companies could also be the country’s biggest smugglers because they were keeping their books away from closer scrutiny by authorities.[/SIZE]

Enormous pricing power
“There is no question that as a result of soaring world oil prices, industry players are enjoying enormous pricing power that has enabled them to pump up their profit,” Gullas said in a statement.


“Consumers are now extremely vulnerable to potential pricing abuses.”
Since the beginning of 2008, he said oil companies had jacked up the price of diesel and kerosene 20 times for a total of P24 to P22.50 a liter. Gasoline prices had been increased 19 times for a total of P19 a liter.


Gullas said Malacañang or Congress could also instruct the Energy Department to “investigate and report the facts relating to any alleged violation of RA 8479 by any person or corporation.”

The Pagkakaisa ng mga Samahan ng Tsuper at Opereytor Nationwide (Piston) claims that there is a P12-per-liter overpricing in the domestic prices of petroleum products, as supposedly shown by a study of Ibon Foundation. Christian V. Esguerra, Abigail L. Ho and Leila B. Salaverria
©2008 www.inquirer.net all rights reserved

Please correct me fellow tsikoteers if Im wrong....

[uls]

The sources are news articles covering the opinions of politicians and activists.

Biased sila against oil companies.

Ibon is leftist.

The politicians are grandstanding.

They are not an accurate source of info.

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Syempre oil companies earn billions of pesos...

Coz they invested billions of pesos.

What's the point in investing a lot of money in a business if ur earnings would be NO GREATER than what u will earn if u just put the money in the bank?

Kaya nga nag business e... coz u want to earn more than what the bank will pay u in interest if u just leave your money with them.

This harassment of oil companies is sending a bad signal to investors.

Mahirap pala kung mag-invest ng malaki at kumita ng malaki... u will be harassed and threatened.

Capitalists will be thinking... tago ko nalang pera ko...

dun nalang ako mag invest sa bansa na mas friendly sa investors.

O nga pala... ano pala rank ng Pinas sa global competitiveness?

hehehe

[[archie]]

Syempre oil companies earn billions of pesos...

Coz they invested billions of pesos.

What's the point in investing a lot of money in a business if ur earnings would be NO GREATER than what u will earn if u just put the money in the bank?

Kaya nga nag business e... coz u want to earn more than what the bank will pay u in interest if u just leave your money with them.

This harassment of oil companies is sending a bad signal to investors.

Mahirap pala kung mag-invest ng malaki at kumita ng malaki... u will be harassed and threatened.

Capitalists will be thinking... tago ko nalang pera ko...

dun nalang ako mag invest sa bansa na mas friendly sa investors.

O nga pala... ano pala rank ng Pinas sa global competitiveness?

hehehe

agree ako dito... tignan na lang natin in ways of basic necessities... food, clothing, and shelter. yung mga yan jack up their prices more than 50% from raw material kung dadating na sa consumers. why not crucify them?

[ChevyChaser]

we need to boycott and stop buying from the multinationals (Petron-Asshole este Ashmore-British;Shell-Dutch-British; Chevron-US; Totalfinaelf-France) which control more than 90% of the local petroleum market.

But we should not stop buying gas...we should only buy gas from local companies that provide some relief to inflation battered Pinoy motorists...


What do you think?

Excuse me. Medyo late na ito pero ask ko lang? WHO CONTROLS OIL PRODUCTION IN 90% WORLDWIDE? Also, are there any real players in the Local scene. If you will do as this e-mail says, where will you buy your gasoline? Most gasoline stations in Metro-Manila and the surrounding areas are franchised and supplied by the big 4. even the small gasoline stations buy their supply from the big 4, especially from SHELL.
Incidentally, I had an experience with my 04 Optra when I loaded PETRON and PTT (Subic). In both times, the fuel pump broke down.
Dapat pwersahin ang gobyerno na ibalik ang Oil De-regulation Law at tanggalin ang 12% E-VAT.
Di nyo napansin, pumayag ang big 4 sa E-Vat ni GMA at ayaw naman ibalik ng gubyerno ang Oil Deregulation Law. BAKET KAYA...Hhhhmmmm...I smell a colussion here between ADMIN and BIG 4.

[uls]

.....is this on of the underlying reasons as to why prices of oil is skyrocketing especially in the London Stock Exchange and New York Stock Exchange (NYSE)....

oil is not traded in stock exchanges.

Oil is traded in commodities exchanges, primarily in the NYMEX and ICE.

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oil and other commodities skyrocketed coz the falling dollar forced investors to look for hedging to protect their dollar-based wealth.

Investors used commodities as a hedge. The huge amounts of money that flowed into commodities is responsible for the skyrocketting prices.

No need for conspiracy theories to explain the high price of oil and other commodities.

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Want a conspiracy theory?

Iraq was invaded by the US coz Saddam wanted to stop accepting US dollars as payment for oil. Saddam said he will only accept Euros.

If that happened, other oil exporters will follow. And that would jeopardize the status of the US dollar as the international currency of trade.

The US won't allow that to happen. That's why Iraq was invaded.

[Jun aka Pekto]

Want a conspiracy theory?

Iraq was invaded by the US coz Saddam wanted to stop accepting US dollars as payment for oil. Saddam said he will only accept Euros.

If that happened, other oil exporters will follow. And that would jeopardize the status of the US dollar as the international currency of trade.

The US won't allow that to happen. That's why Iraq was invaded.

That would make sense except for the fact that during the years following the Gulf War and leading into the 2003 invasion, Iraq can only sell just enough oil as part of its "oil for food program" It was supposed to alleviate the UN-imposed sanctions. They certainly weren't in a position to dictate what currency they'll accept.

If Saddam intended to drop the dollar then why were US troops finding literally walls of hoarded dollars along with weapons caches in Saddam's palaces and hidden tunnels in the aftermath of the 2003 invasion?

You'd think there'd be stashes of Euros instead of dollars.

[Jun aka Pekto]

in the some world news, we can see somewhat a brewing cold-word war between the US and some countries in the EU region. there is growing friction between US and France. The Spanish people also dont trust the Americans that much.

The US is also very watchful of Canada - a predominantly french speaking country which is btw, has more loyalty to France than the US.

1. Wikipedia says 13% of all Canadians speak French only while 18% speak both French and English. That's 31%. The rest of the country is still English-speaking. So, I don't know where you got the idea Canada is overwhelmingly French-speaking.

2. Nicolas Sarcozy is the new French president and is known to be pro-US. What exactly is the friction between the US and France?

3. As for Spain, the only sour point was the withdrawal of Spanish troops from Iraq. But, the commercial relationships between it and the US are as good as ever. Again what specifics are there for friction between Spain and the US.

4. If there was serious friction between Canada and the US, don't you think the border would be closed by now? Last I heard, there's still free flow of traffic between the two countries. Every winter, a lot of (old) Canadians come down here (where it's balmy) to get away from the bitter cold back home.

Add: I would've thought Venezuela might be a flash point. But despite all the rhetoric, Venezuela is still selling oil to the US. There are no State Department travel warnings for Venezuela. From the State Department FAQ about Venezuela:

"[SIZE=2]Approximately 23,000 U.S. citizens living in Venezuela have registered with the U.S. embassy, an estimated three-quarters of them residing in the Caracas area. An estimated 12,000 U.S. tourists visit Venezuela annually. About 500 U.S. companies are represented in the country." [/SIZE]

[uls]

That's why we can't rely on conspiracy theories to explain things.

--------------

we all know oil companies make a lot of money.

They actually made record profits this year.

US and European oil companies just came out with their profit reports for the past quarter. Google nyo nalang.

Soaring commodity prices led to record quarters for Exxon Mobil Corp., ConocoPhillips, BP PLC , Royal Dutch Shell PLC, Chevron Corp., and Total SA.

Altogether, the profits of the six companies jumped more than 40 percent in the second quarter to $51.5 billion, the first time big Western oil companies have ever reached that level

Here's where they made their money:

Oil companies made the bulk of their money from exploration and production, also known as the upstream...

And this is where they lost money:

On the downstream side, the part of their business that refines and sells gasoline actually swung to a loss. The culprit: those same crude prices that lifted upstream earnings.

Oil companies don't produce enough oil on their own to feed their refineries, forcing them to buy crude oil on the open market. And they weren't able to raise the price of gasoline and other products fast enough to recover their own rising costs for oil.

--------

i would like to thank the oil companies for continuing to make fuel for my car.

I'm addicted to oil.

And if they make record profits from my addiction, well, that's their reward.

I don't hate oil companies.

I need them.

[uls]

This is excellent... really really excellent:

[Jun aka Pekto]

OT OT OT

almost all places in Canada are named in French. it goes to show that the ancestors of Canada where the French Army who allied with Washington in the British War.

also take note of the Flag

French Flag
Canadian Flag
notice anything similar

The British were also the victors in the French-Indian War which preceded the American Revolution. Washington fought against the French and distinguished himself with valor during that war. Yet in the same lifetime, he fought against the British with the French becoming Allies later.

It doesn't change the fact though. The British won the French-Indian War which enabled the Anglos to be the majority in Canada. The French who stayed gave their oath of loyalty to the Brits. Loyalty must not have extended into which language to speak.

I suggest you look at French citizens anti-US sentiments.

Of course they're there. There's still many Gaullist admirers alive in France which acounts for many traditional anti-US sentiments. But, if they are in the majority, how can they elect Sarcozy president when he's known to be pro-US?

contrary to popular belief that spain is predominantly catholic nation. (they're the ones who converted us). Spain is actually a multi-religion country. go back further in history, and you'll discover than Spain was a former Muslim nation.

I knew the Moors controlled much of Spain as recently as the Renaissance. I've known that since I was a kid. It's part of "The Crusades" lore. That doesn't make them any more anti-US than the ethnic Basque immigrants who populate much of Nevada. Most of the sheepherders in Nevada and surrounding Rocky Mountain States trace their ancestry back to the Basque sheepherders of Spain. Many of them aren't exactly Nordic in appearance either.

the strategems of war is designed in such a way that common people will not notice that there is tension between two rival countries. the european union will not be put in a position that it will be nuked or attacked some time in the future. the US is merely stating that her armies are strategically positioned if one will not go into a "negotiation" table with them.

If there were really serious friction, there wouldn't be any trade going on between the US and Canada. The US wouldn't be getting a drop of Canadian oil. Both are NATO members. In the event there's a crisis between Canada and the US, the other NATO members are likely to intervene and mediate.

In my own view, these friction between say, France and the US are more like sibling rivalries rather than a doomsday scenario. They'll argue and argue and argue and perhaps even throw a tantrum. But push comes to shove, they're still allies/friends. The history of both countries are intertwined: the French becoming allied with the colonists in the American Revolution, the US returning the favor during WW1 and WW2, the Gulf War, Operation Allied Force, etc. I've personally briefed French Armee de l'Air Mirage 2000 pilots during Operation Southern Watch. We treated em just like our own air crew. And this was during when France and it's president were very critical of the US in the newspapers.

if there's anything to blame for what's happening right now. it's the Euro. they're are trying to create their own little world out there. The Basic concept of 1 main currency and 1 police of the world is what works for all of us, that's why we have peace for more than 50 years now. disturb that balance and this is what happens ...

I'd give credence to uls' blaming the dollar. While the low dollar have caused costs to the consumer to go up, it's beneficial for US exports. In time, I'm sure the numbers for US exports will show an improvement.

like I said above, things must look normal for those who can't fully understand what's happening in the sidelines. It's all about protecting interests. The world is all about protecting interests and compromises.

We know that. We've seen it many times. Things are not always what they seem up front.

But for conspiracy theories to work, they need to have viable educated guesses and not be shot full of holes right from the start.

Add:
I also have to add that after the revolutionary colonists won the American War of Independence, the colonists who were loyal to the king of England were expelled. They either went back to England or moved north to Canada which remained a British possession at the time.

[nicolodeon]

Avah...buhay pa pala etong thread na eto....

Interesting topics: from boycott to conspiracy theory...

Oh well...carry on.

[jpdm]

Excuse me. Medyo late na ito pero ask ko lang? WHO CONTROLS OIL PRODUCTION IN 90% WORLDWIDE? Also, are there any real players in the Local scene. If you will do as this e-mail says, where will you buy your gasoline? Most gasoline stations in Metro-Manila and the surrounding areas are franchised and supplied by the big 4. even the small gasoline stations buy their supply from the big 4, especially from SHELL.

hmmm......plausible explanation...

The email, anyway, is just a what if...

We will see only the effect (if there is any)if we will do what the email says...

Now, the email was not meant to bring down the Big Four...just to cut a little bit of their dominance of the local gas refilling market ONLY.

Incidentally, I had an experience with my 04 Optra when I loaded PETRON and PTT (Subic). In both times, the fuel pump broke down.
Dapat pwersahin ang gobyerno na ibalik ang Oil De-regulation Law at tanggalin ang 12% E-VAT.
Di nyo napansin, pumayag ang big 4 sa E-Vat ni GMA at ayaw naman ibalik ng gubyerno ang Oil Deregulation Law. BAKET KAYA...Hhhhmmmm...I smell a colussion here between ADMIN and BIG 4.

Even Petron? In fairness, I never had problems with Petron....ewan yung PTT (Thailand) I went to that station only once and in San Fernando, Pampanga...ok din naman...

About collusion, yes....

...I do believe, in my opinion, there is collusion....between these oil companies...