trucks,SUVs you can't count on

**sikuya** · March 8th, 2005 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by notEworthy27

I totally agree! survey methods are actually statistical methods. the question is was the random sampling method really random? or where did they get their sample from?

samples came from 400,000 responses from Consumer Reports and ConsumerReports.org subscribers

**sikuya** · March 8th, 2005 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by mike727

masyado atang picky ang gumawa ng survey na yan. i wonder what is the most reliable to them...the new land rover discovery perhaps?

Best Minivan- Honda Odyssey(2004)(03), Toyota Sienna(02)(00)(99), Mazda MPV(01)
Worst Minivan- Nissan Quest(2004), GMC Safari,Chevy Astro (03)(02)(00), Chrysler Town&Country/Dodge Grand Caravan(01), Ford Windstar(99)

Best SUV- Honda Element,Mitsubishi Endeavor,Subaru Forester (2004), Toyota Highlander (03), Toyota Land Cruiser (02), Toyota 4Runner(01), Honda CR-V(00)(99)
Worst SUV- Lincoln Navigator,Nissan Armada(2004), Volvo XC90 (03), Land Rover Freelander (02), Mercedes-Benz M-Class (01)(00), Jeep Grand Cherokee (99)

Best Truck- Toyota Tacoma (2004)(03)(02)(01)(00)(99)
Worst Truck- Dodge Dakota(AWD) (2004)(99), Chevrolet S10/GMC Sonoma (V6/AWD)(03)(02)(01)(00)

number in parenthesis denote model years

**OTEP** · March 8th, 2005 04:29 PM

I don't really believe in Consumer Reports. They're ok when it comes to microwave ovens and toasters, but they're not exactly Car&Driver when it comes to vehicles.

CR kept shouting to the world that Troopers, Samurais, and Pajeros do nothing but rollover and kill their drivers. Yeah, sure.

**Macky** · March 9th, 2005 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by OTEP

CR kept shouting to the world that Troopers, Samurais, and Pajeros do nothing but rollover and kill their drivers. Yeah, sure.

Exagerated naman yata!!! Actually it's the other way around. The car makers involved (Suzuki and Mitsu in particular) kept shouting to the world that their SUVs don't rollover and kill their drivers contrary to what CR published. They even sued CR na hanggang ngayon naka pending pa (Suzuki recently withdrawn). Notice na lahat ng nasabing car-makers, palugi na sa US (Suzuki is staying afloat thanks mainly to their Daewoo-developed car). If I were them sa safety and quality improvements ko ilalagay ang pera instead na sa mga lawyers para sa demanda nila against CR. Since safety ang issue, dun ko lalabanan ang CR. Pero it's just me..... Anyway, nasasa inyo na yan kung gusto nyong maniwala o hindi pero the point is, the consumers always win dahil lang sa mga independent studies na ginagawa ng tulad ng CR, IIHS, NHTSA, etc. Quality, reliability and safety have improved by leaps and bound because of them. Consumers nowadays are smart. Di sila bibili ng produktong hindi mapagkakatiwalaan with their family's everyday use. I have said this 5 years ago and will continue saying it: SAFETY is my #1 priority in choosing a car. At saka, hindi madaling kumita ng pera ngayon.... wala namang masama kung magre-research ka para lang makasiguradong napupunta sa tama ang hard-earned money mo. Kesa sa mga sabi-sabi ng mga barkada, dun ka na lang sa talagang nagte-test ng mga sasakyan makinig since they have REALLY ridden and tested those vehicles (hindi lang test drive).

Opinion ko lang po....

**Macky** · March 9th, 2005 11:12 PM

Originally Posted by quiksie

baka yan yun mga taong hindi makabili ng vehicles kaya nilagay nila not reliable para in denial lang sila

Galing po sa mga owners yung survey. So yung mga meron ang nag participate.... (kaya nga Consumer Reports) hehehe

**Macky** · March 9th, 2005 11:24 PM

Originally Posted by notEworthy27

I totally agree! survey methods are actually statistical methods. the question is was the random sampling method really random? or where did they get their sample from?

Dagdag tanong na lang din since nagkakatanungan na..... hindi kaya lugi yung mga madaming naibebentang sasakyan (i.e F150) dahil mas madamaing owners, mas madaming chances/reports na sirain? Pero come to think of it, bakit ang Camry na mabenta di masyadong nababalitang sirain? Meron bang averages used sa survey. I guess what I'm going at is that baka naman 4K yung reports tapos 50% dun e F150 owners at 20% sa kanila nag-report ng problema so 400 out of 4K na agad which is about 10% (patay, hehehe).

**OTEP** · March 9th, 2005 11:36 PM

Pinakita na sa TV yung testing method CR for rollovers. Watch it and you will see why sa CR tests lang nangyayari yun. Hindi ko alam kung matatawa ko o maiinis. Even in a real world emergency no one will respond like that. Then they slap a huge "NOT ACCEPTABLE" label on the vehicle in their magazine stories. Why not just let the consumer decide what is and what is not acceptable to them?

And SUV's are required by law to have warning labels that they handle differently. Though even before the labels were mandated, the same stuff was already in the manual. That the vehicle could potentially rollover if you do stupid things with it. Siguro hindi nagbabasa ng manual ang mga owner's. hehehe.

And the NHTSA has acknowledged that majority of rollovers are caused by 'tripping' (tripping on the curb, a mound of soil or any similar structure) and that the tires will not have enough frictional coefficient to trip the vehicle over on its own. You will really have to drive like those Arabs (who balance Patrols on two wheels) to flip your rig on a reasonably smooth road.

**Macky** · March 9th, 2005 11:51 PM

Originally Posted by OTEP

Pinakita na sa TV yung testing method CR for rollovers. Watch it and you will see why sa CR tests lang nangyayari yun. Hindi ko alam kung matatawa ko o maiinis. Even in a real world emergency no one will respond like that. Then they slap a huge "NOT ACCEPTABLE" label on the vehicle in their magazine stories. Why not just let the consumer decide what is and what is not acceptable to them?.

And SUV's are required by law to have warning labels that they handle differently. Though even before the labels were mandated, the same stuff was already in the manual. That the vehicle could potentially rollover if you do stupid things with it. Siguro hindi nagbabasa ng manual ang mga owner's. hehehe.

Anong CR test yung napanood mo? What I saw was an emergency maneuver where nag-tilt yung mga gulong ng Pajero. Not clear what the speed is pero ganun ang real world accidents sa free ways.... kakabig ka talaga to avoid something in front of you

**OTEP** · March 9th, 2005 11:58 PM

Yun nga. Ginawa sa Trooper on pontoons. Pero yung degree ng kabig ang kakaiba dun. Balak pa atang mag-counterflow, eh. hehehe. If I recall correctly, sabi ng mga test drivers sa interview na they had to practice to do it that way. Kasi nga hindi naman yun ang natural. You just swerve a lane or two away in a real evasive maneuver. You don't attempt to face the opposite direction, not even a 90 degree turn.

**Macky** · March 10th, 2005 12:09 AM

Originally Posted by OTEP

Yun nga. Ginawa sa Trooper on pontoons. Pero yung degree ng kabig ang kakaiba dun. Balak pa atang mag-counterflow, eh. hehehe. If I recall correctly, sabi ng mga test drivers sa interview na they had to practice to do it that way. Kasi nga hindi naman yun ang natural. You just swerve a lane or two away in a real evasive maneuver. You don't attempt to face the opposite direction, not even a 90 degree turn.

Magkaiba nga siguro tayo ng napanood kasi yung napanood ko may mga orange cones (yun ba yung pontoons?) na naka-set na. Parang paliku-likong slalom, hehehe. Di pedeng kumabig dun ng more than one lane swerve. All of the model year vehicles that they have tested, hindi nag-lift yung gulong kaya nga biglang bagsak agad sa test yung Pajero. Anyway, I see your point sa paggamit ng SUV. I also think na consumers not only get the right info on their vehicles but also have an idea on how to use it before buying. Then again, it's their money and they can spend it as they need be even if it they don't utilize what they buy.

Do you agree that these reports make car-makers build better quality cars though?