2020 Nissan Kicks

[17Sphynx17]

A look at the Nissan Note e-Power battery system (exactly the same as the Nissan Kicks e-Power: HR12DE gas i3 + EM47/57 synchronous hybrid, just with slightly smaller battery capacity).
Car won't start daw coz the high voltage battery system got discharged and now it won't work


I really don't think you can get that whole system replaced for just 24k. Thing with CASA service is I'm sure they will insist on replacing the entire module as a whole, so we're going to need an industry of EV tinkerers to emerge so we can have the possibility of replacing the individual cells in the pack. AFAIK it uses 18650 just like a lot of other EVs.

Thanks for those videos. It was educational. It was a 2017 Note with the "first gen epower" I believe. But I do agree, most likely still relying on similar foundations for the system.

If it is that much labor intensive and not a modular design, then I would also have to agree that it will cost way more than just pricing in the battery because of the complexities. Spitball estiamte figure was battery cost alone, no labor component assumed yet. A Hail Mary prayer. hehe!

Hopefully the 2nd gen design made some "simplifications".

Have to do more extensive reading of the service booklet pertaining to the e-Power System.

[carxynogen]

Bakit kailangan sa driver seat nakalagay battery? Hindi ba siya dapat dun sa rear part ng vehicle for ease of maintenance?
If baklasin whole front seats, pagbalik nyan impossibleng walang rattling noise. Babalik naman sa CASA to trace the cause of rattling noise.

[Verbl Kint]

The batteries are intended to last the estimated lifespan of the car, which is 10-15 years. A battery replacement would then be the exception rather than the norm.

It's not like replacing fluids which is done periodically.

[ice15]

The batteries are intended to last the estimated lifespan of the car, which is 10-15 years. A battery replacement would then be the exception rather than the norm.

It's not like replacing fluids which is done periodically.

agree... we should stop worrying about batteries.

naalala ko tuloy when the iPhone was released tapos di napapalitan yung battery

I'm actually more concerned if our Bureau of Fire Protection has sufficient equipment for possible future battery fires

Bakit kailangan sa driver seat nakalagay battery? Hindi ba siya dapat dun sa rear part ng vehicle for ease of maintenance?
If baklasin whole front seats, pagbalik nyan impossibleng walang rattling noise. Babalik naman sa CASA to trace the cause of rattling noise.

I'm guessing its the safest part of the car?

[17Sphynx17]

Friend's update.

- per agent/dealer, the PMS schedule price breakdown to give an idea of price/cost for every 6 mos interval will be released by Nissan PH to dealers within the month. And his agent will email to him once it is prepared.

- No price available for battery pack and labor if need to replace. Yes, this is currently too early to tell. Just something as "nice to know" but nothing he is overly concerned about.

- The tire repair kit, during turnover, also includes a Tire Inflator/Compressor as part of package. No EWD included though. Friend needs to purchase it himself.

- His current drive around town of a total 10kms, car is telling him the whole trip, stop and go with multiple stops/off (park and lock the vehicle) periods in between averaged around 15km/l per the vehicle's count. The Drive "history" finally appeared when turned off by itself. He didn't need to dig through the menus to enable it.

- Speakers are okay. Definitely better than compared to the 2012 Montero Stock Speakers (tunug lata/"hollow"). I forgot how many watts it was when it was removed from our Montero and replaced with something that sounded somewhat "better".

- The Dashboard screen is not "cluttered" or displaying too much info at any given time. The problem though is friend hasn't found if there is a way to put in one "screen" specific elements/items to be displayed as the reading. Take for example coolant temperature it is a completely different screen and only shows coolant temp. Fuel Efficiency "live" reading is in a separate screen as well (in this tab there are 4 up/down screen to toggle through). 2 "lefts" away from the tab that show if the engine is charging the battery, the regen braking, and if the battery is discharging to move the car. This screen is different from the screen 1 button press down that displays the "tachometer" type look that shows ECO consumption, recharging/regen or high consumption of energy outside Eco range. He still needs the learning curve but it can be found, just have to cycle through the screens to get the one he is looking for right now.

- Manual does mention that you should not keep "running" the vehicle for a long time in ACC (Accessory) mode as that could affect the battery. Right now though, if the car is completely shut off, radio audio turned off, ac off. As long as someone is sitting in the driver's seat, the screen of the dashboard and infotainment do not switch off quickly. Even longer, the gearshift and parking brake remain illuminated as far as he could tell while he was sat inside with the car turned off.

- On observation, there were random points in time where the EV Battery has more than one bar charge remaining yet the 1.2 engine turns on for just less than 5 seconds. but the monitor is showing it just switched on but wasn't charging the battery in that time. It happened a few times and he already inquired to the agent to ask if that is normal. Is it possible the engine was just starting and turning off to maintain "optimal temperature" of oil? This was odd if true. Can't say if it "should be expected to happen" for a series hybrid to have the engine run without charging the EV battery.

EDIT: Friend called. Kicks doesn't just come without a spare tire. It also doesn't come with a jack. haha! Something easy enough to purchase anyway. Just something that didn't cross our minds to even ask if "it was included". We both asked about the EWD from the get go so we already knew it didn't come with the package. hehe

[carxynogen]

Friend's update.

EDIT: Friend called. Kicks doesn't just come without a spare tire. It also doesn't come with a jack. haha! Something easy enough to purchase anyway. Just something that didn't cross our minds to even ask if "it was included". We both asked about the EWD from the get go so we already knew it didn't come with the package. hehe

Hindi ba add-ons yang EWD? When I was purchasing the car, hindi sana ibigay eh until I asked.
But the jack should come as standard.

[17Sphynx17]

Hindi ba add-ons yang EWD? When I was purchasing the car, hindi sana ibigay eh until I asked.
But the jack should come as standard.

Supposedly included because EWD is standard requirement to register with LTO. But friend wasn't really too hung up with it not being included. We both asked and verified kung isama na prior to finalizing with bank and the dealer. Pero wala talaga.

Jack was really just surprising that it wasn't included. Something we both thought is standard no matter what. Even the cheapest ICE car you buy has a jack included. So why would anyone have to ask about it for a car worth more than 1m php right? Anyway, friend has settled down after our chat. He'll just buy one when he goes out for the weekend.

I'm personally not going to make a big deal about it as well, but I do also think it should be made known and clear that jack will not be included/standard in every sale of the Kicks. So I'm posting it here so other prospective buyers can try to get it to come with their purchase. Hehe! As well as the EWD.

But my friend did say, he wanted to get the car because he was waiting in line for another ICE car since April and he just couldn't get the one he wanted. Kicks was launched he was happy with the features and the car itself. The EWD and Jack, plus the learning curve are things he is willing to go through because he wanted the car NOW. hehe

[17Sphynx17]

Oh, for those who are doing the math. For friend's case, other than wanting the car. we had passed around thoughts about the fuel consumption as we both do monitor fuel consumption for each of our use cases.

For his end, currently, he says he averages around 4500-5000php per month pre pandemic (daily reporting to work 5 days a week). Now, with a hybrid WFH setup, with the higher price of gas/diesel, he was already averaging 6000-6500php per month.

for his past history with his gas car that averages around 9km/l. Diesel prior to the Kicks was 8km/l. All city driving conditions.

So assuming the Kicks can even "halve" the monthly gas expenses, that's 27,000php (prepandemic/PreP) or 36,000php (Pandemic Fuel/PF). Assuming at 6th year battery is only 90% as effective compared to brand new a possible scenario. Fuel savings from 6th to 10th year will drop to around 24,300php per year (for PreP) or 32,400php per year (for PF).

Assuming nothing else is made an issue with the ePower system for the example. He "should" theoretically have saved 256,500php (for PreP) or 342,000php (for PF) as a possible expecation for Fuel Savings at the end of the 10th year (or start of 11th year). This does not account any expenses when it comes to the "normal" PMS expenses for the Kicks vs a standard ICE car of similar level. Just assuming similar Fuel economy to his standard ICE Fuel economy figures per his logs/history. This notes it as city driving exclusively. No highways figures used as the plan is to use the Kicks as a City car mainly. But of course it can be driven on the highway. But that is outside the normal regular use case for him.

I wouldn't even be able to have similar monthly fuel expenses so the upside isn't the same for me. I might not even have much of an upside. But I do like the car overall. But conditions are different for me.

[Dr.Kamiya]

For a pure city car parang a pure BEV will be better?

I don't see how the Kicks will save on PMS. There's still the regular oil changes and maintenance for the gas engine which will still be running almost as much as a regular car since the battery is so small it's essentially just a supercapacitor for converting gasoline into electricity.

Following a conversation with a Tesla Model S owner in the Interesting Car Spotting Facebook Group the Model S running cost is about P2.00/km. That's massively cheaper to run than the Kicks, assuming which assuming 22km/li and P70li = P3.18/km, and that's assuming zero cost for PMS for the internal combustion engine. If you spend P1/li on PMS (equal to P5,000 service every 5,000km) then the Kicks will cost twice as much to run as a Tesla Model S.

[17Sphynx17]

For a pure city car parang a pure BEV will be better?

I don't see how the Kicks will save on PMS. There's still the regular oil changes and maintenance for the gas engine which will still be running almost as much as a regular car since the battery is so small it's essentially just a supercapacitor for converting gasoline into electricity.

Following a conversation with a Tesla Model S owner in the Interesting Car Spotting Facebook Group the Model S running cost is about P2.00/km. That's massively cheaper to run than the Kicks, assuming which assuming 22km/li and P70li = P3.18/km, and that's assuming zero cost for PMS for the internal combustion engine. If you spend P1/li on PMS (equal to P5,000 service every 5,000km) then the Kicks will cost twice as much to run as a Tesla Model S.

That is true but for the more common folk

1) Tesla isn't the same price with the Kicks

2) Charging the Tesla is another discussion entirely vs the Kicks while getting some of the "EV" performance advantage. But of course, it is "gimped" but it is an "entry point"

3) Tesla doesn't have official support here in PH as far as I personally am aware, in the event of "issues" that "may be encountered" how it will be handled. I personally don't know about.

So the comparison is really what is "practical" in what was being looked at and can be maintained practically by him (in this case).

Maybe if a BEV with dealer support network is priced below 1.5m php, then it could be something that "could have been discussed" with my friend. But as it stands, there isn't that practical of an option to pick from to even start considering.

EDIT: In Philkotse, it currently shows results that a 2022 Model S will cost around 9.5miliion php? And a 2022 Model 3 listing says 3,161,950php in Tesla Model 3 Price In Philippines - Motowheeler Ph .So any source to validate prices

Also, Wuling EV and the Renault Twizzy aren't really something to consider if you are looking at car sized like the Kicks. So even if the price may be "cheaper" to start with, it isn't really a "similar vehicle".