Scandals in the First Family

[baiskee]

Eh si GMA, wala pang ebidensiya, pinagbibitiw na

ayaw buksan yung balota eh... buksan nyo andun yung ebidensya.

palaban? palaban saan? nagkataon lang lang na yung ibang Asian countries gained their independence at a much later time than tha Philippines, kaya parang mas maunlad tayo ng konti sa kanila nung time ni Marcos.

marcos na naman... let's move forward please... 2005 na po.

[Bogeyman]

Erap hasn't been convicted of any crime thus GMA had no right to assume office, if you go by the constitution.

Exactly. But we're dealing with a President who may or may not have the slightest regard for the constitution. Pero ngayon lang lumalabas yung mga reklamo, kung kelan nakaupo na siya, kung kelan naisahan na niya ang bayan. The burden of proof is in the opposition's hands, since they are the ones who initiated the accusation. They had a chance when FPJ filed an election protest. What happened? He conked out. They could have used that supposed audio tape to bolster their accusations of wrongdoing. What happened instead? They kept it to themselves. Tapos ngayon nila ilalabas, when it became glaringly clear that there's no way in hell they'll win through legal means. And that adds not a few more political colors into the issue.

I'm more inclined to believe that the jueteng accusations against Mikey and FG Mike will prosper instead. The audio tapes? They're an election-related issue, one that had a proper time and place to be addressed. But it just so happens that the period for election protests has lapsed, without the opposition taking full advantage of that time. It's now just extended sourgraping on their part.

[IceColdBeer]

Oh well ang alam ko yung tape is of the government's making na din and not by the opposition otherwise they could have brought it out before and not just now.

[EL Chicane]

Erap hasn't been convicted of any crime thus GMA had no right to assume office, if you go by the constitution.

Actually, kung babalikan nyo yung mga pangyayari nung time na yun, ang unang issue sa lahat ay yung "legitimacy" of Arroyo assuming the presidency. That was already resolved with finality by the Supreme Court. There was verified evidence shown that Erap resigned after his cabinet, police, and military abandoned him and revoked their loyalty.

Tapos na yung issue whether GMA had the right to assume office after Erap was toppled. In fact, the present existence of Congress today proves that the Arroyo administration is legitimate. Wag na nating ibalik yung GMA vs. ERAP. Tapos na yun eh. And Erap is already on trial with the best lawyers in the country kaya meron siyang due process.

Ang issue ngayon ay kung si GMA ba ay nandaya nitong huling eleksyon? Again, wala itong kinalaman dun sa nakaraang GMA vs. ERAP. Lumalabas na ang mga ebidensya ay hindi matibay, kaya ginagaya nila yung technique nung pinatalsik nila si Erap dati. Hindi kasi matibay yung ebidensya kay Erap dati kaya dinaan nila sa People Power. Gusto nilang ulitin yung same People Power noon laban naman ngayon kay GMA.

[Bogeyman]

Actually, kung babalikan nyo yung mga pangyayari nung time na yun, ang unang issue sa lahat ay yung "legitimacy" of Arroyo assuming the presidency. That was already resolved with finality by the Supreme Court. There was verified evidence shown that Erap resigned after his cabinet, police, and military abandoned him and revoked their loyalty.

Tapos na yung issue whether GMA had the right to assume office after Erap was toppled. In fact, the present existence of Congress today proves that the Arroyo administration is legitimate. Wag na nating ibalik yung GMA vs. ERAP. Tapos na yun eh. And Erap is already on trial with the best lawyers in the country kaya meron siyang due process.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[FrankDrebin]

Exactly! But according to some friends working for the opposition senators it was FVR was the brain behind it?!?!?

[EL Chicane]

Exactly! But according to some friends working for the opposition senators it was FVR was the brain behind it?!?!?

"according to some friends ....."

"some sources say ....."

"a reliable source mentioned ...."

"the cousin of the sister of my co-worker's uncle told me....."


Mga urban legend lahat yan 'pre.

[IceColdBeer]

Actually, kung babalikan nyo yung mga pangyayari nung time na yun, ang unang issue sa lahat ay yung "legitimacy" of Arroyo assuming the presidency. That was already resolved with finality by the Supreme Court. There was verified evidence shown that Erap resigned after his cabinet, police, and military abandoned him and revoked their loyalty.

Tapos na yung issue whether GMA had the right to assume office after Erap was toppled. In fact, the present existence of Congress today proves that the Arroyo administration is legitimate. Wag na nating ibalik yung GMA vs. ERAP. Tapos na yun eh. And Erap is already on trial with the best lawyers in the country kaya meron siyang due process.

Ang issue ngayon ay kung si GMA ba ay nandaya nitong huling eleksyon? Again, wala itong kinalaman dun sa nakaraang GMA vs. ERAP. Lumalabas na ang mga ebidensya ay hindi matibay, kaya ginagaya nila yung technique nung pinatalsik nila si Erap dati. Hindi kasi matibay yung ebidensya kay Erap dati kaya dinaan nila sa People Power. Gusto nilang ulitin yung same People Power noon laban naman ngayon kay GMA.

Okay ah! Hindi matibay ang ebidensya kay GMA? Hmmm okay

[mbt]

makapal nga ang rumors that it's FVR behind these hehe.

but i sincerely doubt this is all the opposition's plan. i think the reason why the "opposition" released these tapes "only now" is simple: they never had it. i believe that the tapes (which i believe are genuine and really feature GMA and Garcillano. perhaps you may ask why GMA herself would talk about such a sensitive matter on the phone? well, she has a reputation for micro-management) were hatched by someone from within the NBI. perhaps he sold it to the highest bidder. perhaps he's disgruntled with GMA. but the fact remains that the questions of the authenticity of the tapes and whether or not it was GMA are extremely critical.

why is GMA silent?

simple. if she denied it outright when the story of the tapes first broke, she'd be a sitting duck if the tapes were found to be authentic by a credible independent institution. plus, she was probably shocked to death that the "secret" tapes surfaced to the public, and her subordinates (particularly Bunye, who probably tried to pre-empt the opposition from pouncing on it by showing the two CDs on tv, and Gonzales, who's so dumb that he immediately shoots from the hip and orders the [illegal] arrest of even those who possess ringtones) panic for her defense.

if she confirmed that it was indeed her on the tape, then obviously, she's dead.

now that she kept her silence, she's dead too. if she denies it now, it will be impossible to believe. ano yun, she tried to remember first if she had that conversation? haha. she should already have known at the beginning if the conversation happened or not (syempre, it's either it did or it did not and she should know it on the spot which is true!).

i don't think it's right to blame the opposition for this. there's only GMA to blame. she kept her silence. the opposition is only asking questions as it always does. GMA's guilt is obvious in her response to the brewing scandal.

[IceColdBeer]

It's very obvious that it's not the opposition, otherwise why didn't they showed it during the canvass of voting and why just now where FPJ is already dead and even if GMA is ousted, it'd be Noli Boy who will take over? Some people just see it differently.

[EL Chicane]

Okay ah! Hindi matibay ang ebidensya kay GMA? Hmmm okay

Yes. All evidence must be proven in the court of law and not thru media. Sa korte kasi, lahat ng ebidensya ay pwedeng suriin ng husto ng mga eksperto in a controlled manner. Pag sa media kase, puro opinyon lang at haka-haka ang ginagamit para malaman kung totoo nga yung ebidensya o hinde. So hanggat wala pa yung ebidensya sa korte, hindi ito matibay. Kanya-kanyang opinyon lang ang pinapa-iral natin.

GMA's strategy to keep quiet is a good move for her. Everyone knows that wiretapped recordings cannot be used as evidence in court. They can only be used to confirm a suspicion and plan for the next moves to catch the target red-handed with something that can be used in court.

Mukhang yung opposition doesn't have a plan for their next moves kaya pinag-iinit na lang nila yung mga damdamin ng mga tao thru the media hoping a people power will happen again.

You cannot commit a crime and use it as an evidence to prove another crime.

[mbt]

maybe not, but if the crime being sought to be proven is something that is of paramount public interest (and the sanctity of elections IS definitely of paramount public interest), why should the fact be dismissed? that is akin to snuffing out the smoke but not the fire. that is like arresting an ambulance driver rushing a patient for running a red light or speeding. that is like condemning the doctor who "aborts" a fetus to save the life of the mother in the case of a difficult pregnancy (let's say).

so arrest the wiretappers. but also arrest GMA if the tapes lead to her doorstep.

[yebo]

it all boils down to one thing: GMA TOOK FROM THE PEOPLE WHAT GOD HAS GIVEN THEM - FREE CHOICE. IF SHE CHEATED THE ELECTION THEN SHE HAS NO MORAL RIGHT TO BE THE PRESIDENT.

malas lang nya nahuli siya. kahit na siya ang least of all evil if she cheated then i think she needs to step down. why? because i did not stayed at edsa for 4 days in february 1986 so that her kind can be in power. what she is doing now is hiding behind a technicality. she has no shame.

[IceColdBeer]

so arrest the wiretappers. but also arrest GMA if the tapes lead to her doorstep.

Mismo! The point here is that many people believe that it was GMA caught on tape. If you look at what they're doing, they're obviously on panic mode. First, Bunye said that it was GMA on tape, but he said that the tape was altered and then later he retracts and said that it was not her? Duh! Does he think people are that stupid to believe their alibi?

This is just my opinion. If you occupy the highest post of the land and you were caught on tape directing your subordinates to cheat the election and so you can retain your post. Do you think you still deserve and has the moral obligation to serve the interest of the Filipino people? Can you still go in public and say it was the Lord that puts you where you are? Can you still claim that the departed Pope John Paul instructed you to continue leading our country?

Sa akin lang eh sobrang kapal na talaga

[EL Chicane]

All our opinions can never remove GMA from office. Impeachment na lang ulit ang pag-asa. Hanggat walang impeachment na nangyayari, all this destabilization will only destroy our economy. Tingnan nyo, malapit ng bumalik sa P56 ang dollar. Tataas na ang presyo ng Fortuner dahil sa VAT. Tumataas na ang gasolina. Approve na yung P2 increase sa pamasahe. Tumaas na din yung singgil ng Meralco. Kung puro destabilization lang ang mangyayari at walang impeachment, para lang tayong kumuha ng bato at pinukpok sa sarili nating ulo.

Since hindi naman magre-resign si GMA. At wala namang impeachment na pina-plano sa Kongreso, ano pang hakbang ang gusto niyong mangyari? People Power na lang ang natitirang option. Yan ba ang gusto nyo? People Power na naman?

Kailangan isipin din natin ang next steps hanggang ma-solve ang problema. Mahirap ang puro ngit-ngit at galit at chismis na lang. Sa takbo ng usapan sa thread na ito, mukhang People Power lang ang pinatutunguhan or ini-imply na gawin.

[IceColdBeer]

Ang problema naman eh saan tayo dadalhin ni GMA? I'm not after another uprising either but she should step down. That is if there's still christian value left in her.

[mbt]

well, imo, why is there destabilization? i think precisely there is because the president (not to mention, her relatives!) is herself so very dubious. hindi naman dahil sa opposition yan... there's been an opposition since time immemorial hehehe. no opposition = no democracy.

the solution is for GMA to step down. in fact, she should never have run for office in 2004, as she promised on Rizal's grave once. how pathetic can she get.

if she won't step down, let her be impeached. but much as it pains me to say this, i will support a people's revolution to remove GMA from office if it has to come to that (say, if the trial will prove to be a puppet show). kesa naman sa, wala ngang people power ulit (to save our faces from the world), pero pumayag naman tayong gaguhin tayo ng mga elected officials natin right?

the supreme court mantra that "legitimized" the arroyo government did say, "the will of the people is the ultimate law".

[IceColdBeer]

Oo nga parang harap harapan ka ng ninanakawan eh hahayaan mo na lang? This is what fails our country. Masyado tayong nagpapakamartyr. Hinahayaan na lang natin ang mga politikong ito na magtampisaw sa perang dapat para sa ating bayan.

[oldblue]

the election was rigged the moment they announced that they wont use the purchased automated counting machines worth millions of pesos. Have you seen it on TV? it was state of the art. all brand new & all computerized. it can even be connected to the Internet for centralized balloting.

But you know what really is surprising? nobody on the competing camps objected.
The opposition, Roco, Villanueva, & others. Abalos at that time was so disappointed and he expressed it on TV. But nobody in power, not even the powerful opposition ran to his aide. Maybe, they are all scared of computers bec. they dont understand it or bec. they know for a fact that computers dont lie. They would rather do it the traditional way, take chances on their wits & connections or the best that money can buy.

come on, do you actually believe that the present administration is the only one capable of cheating in the elections?

so again the emergence of the tapes whether true or not is plain & simple old news. what's done is done. let's move on. We have a President now, if it was her voice on the tape, then accept it. be angry, express your disgust, make fun of her.
but dont ask her to step down. Our stability & health as a nation depends on it.

Investors dont care if GMA did or did not influence the elections. But they do care about their investments once they smell something's not right or something's brewing in the present govt.

[mbt]

maybe opposing factions cheat in elections too. in fact, it's probable. what's different here is the possibility, even probability, that GMA herself was caught doing so.

but you're saying that even if GMA would have been caught with her hand in the cookie jar, we should all make nothing of it? sorry, but that's a disgusting thought. i'd rather vent my distaste with GMA than sit back and watch her.

you've got it wrong. we fix our government, stability and investments will follow naturally.

not the other way around.