Not everything in the Bible is true...

[Flagg]

Wow, galing hehe...

Binasa mo lahat yon? Wow!

Yung post ni sir niky dapat nasa Hall of Fame na.

[oldblue]

RE: Atheists and culture:

I stand by what I said. If atheists should reject the goods produced by the religious, then the religious should also reject goods created by atheists. But then, this brings up a question... is it black-and-white? Are there just God Fearing people and Atheists?

yes sir, in our modern world, dalawa na lang talaga. those who believe there is a supreme being and those who dont believe. siguro, long long ago tatlong klase pa: God-fearing people, atheists, and those who practice Idolatry - yun mga tao nag-worhip ng statues, heavenly objects, animals, nature etc ... but of course, bec. of the discoveries in science, unti-unti na nawala mga ganito.

Just as there are Religious Fundamentalists, there are Atheistic Fundamentalists, who will preach to you till they are blue that "there is no God". But there are moderates, also, who are firm in their belief that there is no God, but they don't go around bothering everyone with their theories.

Then there are the low-level atheists and agnostics, who are only thus because they are dissatisfied with religion.

In religion, you have the Fundamentalists, who preach fire and brimstone and death to all unbelievers.

You have the moderates, the faithful who can accept the existence of other people.

You have the low-level faithful, who are vaguely religious but think about it as often as you or I think about going to the dentist to have a tooth pulled. These people are susceptible to other religions, too.

yes sir I understand that there are sub-groups. pero still bali-baligtadin natin sila, dalawa pa din: one group who believes there is a God and another group who believes there is none.

So... where do you draw the line? What if the person who plants the rice is a low-level faithful? What if he's an agnostic? How do you know that all farmers are religious? That all advances in science or culture were inspired by religion? And what's the difference between science and religion? What if a scientist's religion is the worship of knowledge? What if the atheist worships justice or ethics?

I didnt mean in that way sir. I didnt say that Religion inspired inventors.
what I am saying is that religion or a community/nation of divine believers made it possible for our civilization to prosper. and with civilization, there is peace. and when there is peace and order, there is productivity. and when there is productivity, well yun na nga, the mind gets to work full-blast .

now, let's run this scenario in a godless society but practices equality among men. how long do you think can they survive? how long can one atheist respect/endure another atheist with "superiority complex" so power-tripping that he's almost playing God over the ordinary atheist. and did I mentioned the term God - the most controversial term for an atheist.

so far, the only successful atheistic ideology in our world right now are the communists. but they were wise enough to get "equality among men" out of the picture.

Harmony in a community is not a result of whether or not the community has a religion. It's a function of the common will of the community, and how well they get along, regardless of religion.

can you cite an example of a community like this?

barangays, village associations, sports organizations, laywer/doctor/engineer associations, corporations, towns, cities, most nations in the world, always mention the word "God" either in their profile, background or even in their preamble.

And I beg to differ on the point of view regarding religious war and killing. Those happen precisely because the faith of the followers is so strong that they believe anything is justifiable if done in the name of God. Thus, terrorists aren't afraid of death or killing children, because their leaders tell them it's in the name of God. The leader may be a terrible example of a religious person, using religion as merely a propaganda tool, but the followers can be perfectly faithful and never know the difference.

it's very simple lang naman sir. almost, if not all, religions preach that it is wrong to kill and to harm another person. but there is also a commandment in most religions: defend the faith.

so therefore it's very easy to know those who dont fear to use the name of God in vain, they are always on the offensive . is being offensive a characteristic of God?

It's interesting to note however that most atheists are offensive bec. they attack and disprove our religious beliefs even to the extent of ridiculing it.

[Flagg]

Mas mahaba pa rin post ni sir niky, sir oldblue.

[oldblue]

Mas mahaba pa rin post ni sir niky, sir oldblue.

teka hanap pako ma-reply-an

[BoEinG_747]

anak ng ...mahaba na nga ang kay sir old blue...

mahaba pa din doon ang kay sir niky

wala kaya kalyo sa daliri ang mga iyon

sarap mag basa dito ..nsaan na kaya sina sir coder at sir city?

[GlennSter]

Atheists are human beings who came to realize that not everything in the bible is true.

clear ko lang ha...so some things are true para sa inyo?kasi "not everything"...so may "something"? o lahat? clearing things up lang...

The above statement is from a cute atheist...........(wag mag react theveed, M2, glennster, niky, imau)

heto ipapaubaya ko nalang sa "blind" faith..kahit diko pa nakikita eh maniniwala na ako!

[slamtaz]

hehehe very tempting mag post dito ah

kaya lang baka sumala sa puwesto ang post at kuyugin eh...

this is becoming the thread with the most number of longest post ever!!! :peace:

[city]

now, let's run this scenario in a godless society but practices equality among men. how long do you think can they survive? how long can one atheist respect/endure another atheist with "superiority complex" so power-tripping that he's almost playing God over the ordinary atheist. and did I mentioned the term God - the most controversial term for an atheist..

I'm not sure how you came up with this idea but arent we in a world of believers with superiority complex?..."chosen people"...how many children and young women have died to date with this notion written in heads of the believers?"...if many of us are surviving today, can you count how many have died from the first time man entered into religion? And remember, hitler was a believer...he have his own religion and beliefs.....how many jews did he killed?

Can you explain in detail what are you trying to convey in your message? Parang nalalabuan kasi ako e.

so far, the only successful atheistic ideology in our world right now are the communists. but they were wise enough to get "equality among men" out of the picture. ..

Please don't associate communism with atheism or vice versa. It's completely a different category. Atheism is never an ideology or form of government. Hope this clears it up.

can you cite an example of a community like this?

barangays, village associations, sports organizations, laywer/doctor/engineer associations, corporations, towns, cities, most nations in the world, always mention the word "God" either in their profile, background or even in their preamble. ..

Obvious ba na community of believers tayo? Hehehe. Please get updated with nations where the word god is removed from schools and preambles of certain nations or states in the US.

it's very simple lang naman sir. almost, if not all, religions preach that it is wrong to kill and to harm another person. but there is also a commandment in most religions: defend the faith...

is this a new commandment from god or from the church? defend the faith?

so therefore it's very easy to know those who dont fear to use the name of God in vain, they are always on the offensive . is being offensive a characteristic of God?

It's interesting to note however that most atheists are offensive bec. they attack and disprove our religious beliefs even to the extent of ridiculing it.

Read the old testament and you'll see if the god of the OT is offensive or not.

Most are offended of the truth old blue. The truth hurts.

[city]

clear ko lang ha...so some things are true para sa inyo?kasi "not everything"...so may "something"? o lahat? clearing things up lang...



heto ipapaubaya ko nalang sa "blind" faith..kahit diko pa nakikita eh maniniwala na ako!

thanks glenn!..hehehehe...anyway, i stated not everything because the bible mostly is about jewish history and the psalms of the poets or prophets are realistic.

stories like talking donkeys, man walking on water, stick turning into a serpent are justt like any magic tricks we see on TV. They are not real. If anyone can show me a talking donkey or a man walking on water....i take back all my statements. I'm sure I will be quoted on this challenge. Anyway, just being rational.

again, keep that faith!..........that i am cute....hehehehe

[CoDer]

Grabe mga boss! Iksian nyo naman mga post nyo, nakaka-duling :taunt:

Keep it coming guys, in the meantime merienda muna tayo. :popcorn: :soda:

[Wouie]

IMO....

kanya kanyang interpretation lang yan...

respeto lang sa paniniwala ng iba.

once pagdebatehan natin ang tungkol sa religion laging mauuwi sa di maganda.

wala yan sa kaalaman sa anumang nasusulat na bagay, sa halip nasa mabuting saloobin yan ng isang tao sa kanyang kapwa at sa kanyang pinaniniwalaang Maykapal.

[CtrlAltDel]

once pagdebatehan natin ang tungkol sa religion laging mauuwi sa di maganda.

wala yan sa kaalaman sa anumang nasusulat na bagay, sa halip nasa mabuting saloobin yan ng isang tao sa kanyang kapwa at sa kanyang pinaniniwalaang Maykapal.

'yan din ang naisip kong sabihin. if this thread was just starting, it would be a mistake to say, hayaan nalang natin ang ating individual beliefs. pero after so much discussion, i think its time to leave each one to his or her own belief.

for the atheits, there is no God or afterlife. you will just return to nothingness when you die.

for the Christians (of which there are many groups) there is one Creator- the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and he promises eternal punishment or eternal happiness depending on your faith and love for Him.

fair enough?

[empy]

but where's the fun in that?

[Psalm136:2]

Talagang mahirap pag-usapan ang religion dahil sa dami nito. Syempre kanya-kanyang paninindigan, ideology or doctrines ang mga yan.

It's also true na dalawa lang talaga ang klase ng taong nabubuhay sa mundo (I'm talking about spirituality):
the believers (iba-ibang paniniwala)
the unbelievers (mga walang pinapaniwalaan except what they see and touch)

Kaya nga sabi nga ng Diyos, religion can't save man. It's only faith in Christ that can save one's soul from eternal punishment.

But then again, Christ is not pushing Himself to anybody; only those who wants to accept Him, dun lang magma-manifest ang kanyang mga promises and love na makikita nga natin sa Bible. Kaya nga ginawa ang tao na may freewill, ayaw Nyang mamilit.

[uls]

Sentient Beings millions of years more advanced than us... observing us:

Sentient One: "Listen to them..."

Sentient One: "Yes... they are behaving exactly as we planned..."

Sentient One: "A thousand years more... that is if their race survives... if they dont kill themselves..."

Sentient One: "We can reveal ourselves to them."

Sentient One: "And take them to the stars..."

Sentient One: "Now, they are not ready for immortality."

[Psalm136:2]

Ngayon about the title of this thread; I guess we can put the blame sa mga Roman rulers after the death of Christ. Sila kasi ang nagpa-complicate ng mga bagay-bagay patungkol sa Christianity.

Jesus preached only two things when He walked on earth; love and peace (of which dito napapaloob ang lahat ng sinasabi sa Bible)

Pero kung anu-anong isinamang mga pagtuturo (doctrines, beliefs, ideology, etc.) ang mga Roman rulers noon kaya tuloy ngayon parang naguguluhan na ang pamunuan ng Roman Catholicism.

Catholicism by the way was not established by Christ, it was established by the Roman rulers, just to state a fact.

[uls]

The purpose of religion is to manipulate and control large numbers of people.

What do all leaders want from their followers? UNQUESTIONING OBEDIENCE.

Religion has served its purpose thru out the millenia. Pushing forth the agenda of its leaders.

Look at what the world is today... a mess... a big mess.

Thanks to religion.

[niky]

*Psalm136:2: it is the acceptance of that fact that should allow us to disassociate most of the Bible from Christ. What is essential to Christianity is his doctrine of equality, brotherhood and love. Any arguing or bickering over the forms of the mass, worship of saints or the number of stars in the sky is beside the point. Which is why the Bible itself, is suspect, as many portions of it aren't focused on Jesus' teachings, and run counter to them.

yes sir, in our modern world, dalawa na lang talaga. those who believe there is a supreme being and those who dont believe. siguro, long long ago tatlong klase pa: God-fearing people, atheists, and those who practice Idolatry - yun mga tao nag-worhip ng statues, heavenly objects, animals, nature etc ... but of course, bec. of the discoveries in science, unti-unti na nawala mga ganito.

Wrong. If you want to be really picky about it. I suggest you try to take into account what constitutes Idolatry... that's excessive worship of an object or person who is not God. According to most religions, the Gods of other religions are not the true God, thus, there are only two kinds of people in the world, those who practice Idolatry, and those who don't.

But all kidding aside, look around you. People worship actors and actresses, they worship abstract things like democracy, communism, capitalism or money. There are those who worship science. Just because a person is an atheist, it doesn't mean he doesn't worship anything. It just means he doesn't worship a divine being.

Even the "religious" can be guilty of idolatry. Look at us here... we're a community dedicated to worshipping cars.

yes sir I understand that there are sub-groups. pero still bali-baligtadin natin sila, dalawa pa din: one group who believes there is a God and another group who believes there is none.

There are two kinds of people in this world. Those who say there are two kinds of people, and those who don't. I don't. I could tell you there are two kinds of people, myself: Men and Women. That's absolute. Does that make one subgroup better than another? Does that take into account Women who act like men, and Men who act like women? How do they feel about it?

Once you set a dividing line, you are classifying people and setting one set of standards for one, and one set for another.

I didnt mean in that way sir. I didnt say that Religion inspired inventors.
what I am saying is that religion or a community/nation of divine believers made it possible for our civilization to prosper. and with civilization, there is peace. and when there is peace and order, there is productivity. and when there is productivity, well yun na nga, the mind gets to work full-blast .

And again, I say that a non-monotheistic society doesn't qualify. Peace and order has been achieved over large regions by various civilizations without a unifying religion. The pantheistic houses of the Greeks and Romans represent an attempt to unify religions in order to maintain order, but those came afterwards, not before.

I guess you must need something to worship, though. America is now made up of dozens of different ethnic religious groups, with no common God (which is why the mention of God is omitted from some US schools now), yet they are held together, I guess, by worship of money? EDIT: Actually, the US of A is based on the worship of democracy, freedom and equality... just like modern France is.

now, let's run this scenario in a godless society but practices equality among men. how long do you think can they survive? how long can one atheist respect/endure another atheist with "superiority complex" so power-tripping that he's almost playing God over the ordinary atheist. and did I mentioned the term God - the most controversial term for an atheist.

Let's run that scenario again with a religious society. The exact same thing happens. Torquemada, Napoleon, Hitler. In a godless society, maybe you have your Karl Marx or Joseph Lenin... or your Kim Jong Il... it's all the same. People will blindly and faithfully follow their leaders in whatever they proclaim. In a religious society, this would be because "of the Word of God", in an atheistic society, this would be a "personality cult" (like with Kim Jong Il) or a worship of an abstract ideal.

Any strong leader with a "God complex" can ruin a society, with or without religion. They can also make the society work, with or without religion, but benevolent dictators are rare (and some would argue, non-existent).

so far, the only successful atheistic ideology in our world right now are the communists. but they were wise enough to get "equality among men" out of the picture.

I hope that's sarcasm. Atheism has about as much to do with communism as Catholicism has to do with Naziism. In other words, the two may both be present, but they aren't a cause and effect relationship.

can you cite an example of a community like this?

The USA is as close to multicultural and multi-religious as you can get, barring the strong block-voting fundamentalists. Most modern cities are multicultural, and they work just fine. Strife in multicultural societies and civilizations often arises from certain ethnic groups being discriminated against or being marginalized, whether intentionally or not, in an economic way.

In the US, this emerged as the LA race riots. In France, this emerged merely as youth riots. Before you say that these could have been avoided with religion, note that most US blacks are very devoutly Catholic, and almost all Hispanics, who are more commonly discriminated against, are Catholic. Note also that some single religion countries also experience strife, re: riots in Indonesia, civil war and killings. Like I said, religion may sometimes be part of it, but it's not the whole answer.

South Korea is one civilization held together without any strong religious background... which is probably why most Koreans you'll meet now are converted Christians.

China (not communist China, but classical China) also does not have a strong religious background, but it was one of the longest lasting civilizations ever.

barangays, village associations, sports organizations, laywer/doctor/engineer associations, corporations, towns, cities, most nations in the world, always mention the word "God" either in their profile, background or even in their preamble.

Associations of Christian barangays, lawyers, doctors, engineers, etcetera... don't assume a generality based on what you see in your mostly Catholic community. The Philippines isn't the world.

it's very simple lang naman sir. almost, if not all, religions preach that it is wrong to kill and to harm another person. but there is also a commandment in most religions: defend the faith.

Both items are in direct conflict once you are called on to defend your faith. From what? From who? Says who? A Jihad, or holy war, is called to defend the faith, and it doesn't require that the opponent be physically attacking you, either.

In Judaism or Islam, it is wrong to kill a person who has not wronged you, but retribution is encouraged. You can be killed for an imagined wrong, and it would be perfectly "lega" within the religious strictures.

The only religions that specifically do not condone killing of any kind are Jainism (where you cannot even kill an ant) and Buddhism. Hinduism preaches that any animal may be a reincarnation of a relative or friend, but why they will still eat a goat even though they're afraid the cow next door might be their dear departed grand-dad is beyond me.

so therefore it's very easy to know those who dont fear to use the name of God in vain, they are always on the offensive . is being offensive a characteristic of God?

If you're Pat Robertson, apparently, it is.

It's interesting to note however that most atheists are offensive bec. they attack and disprove our religious beliefs even to the extent of ridiculing it.

And I say again: that's because you only know of atheists who speak up and proclaim to the world that "There is no God".

Don't judge an entire subset of the population on the rantings of a few... just as you would not like me to judge all Christians by the ravings of Pat Robertson or the killing of the Jews by the Bishops of the Inquisition.

Now, let's go back to what you said. There are two kinds of people. Are you the same kind of person as Osama bin Laden? He is definitely a God-fearing man. But if he isn't, and he is just pretending... his followers sure are... it's their absolute belief in Allah that allows them to kill themselves. So... does it feel good to be the same kind of person as they?

If you want to redefine God-fearing and Godless, go ahead. There's no absolute definition that would put all the good people in the world on the same side of the line. They're scattered in-between.

All things are relative, and religion has its place in society, but the lack of a central religion with a specific deity does not automatically negate a society or render it worthless.

It's that kind of thinking that fuels war and genocide, to consider "Godless" people as not being as good as "God-fearing" people. It's good that you can extend your concept of "God-fearing" to include all religions, but a lot of people can't.

[CtrlAltDel]

..People worship actors and actresses, they worship abstract things like democracy, communism, capitalism or money. There are those who worship science. Just because a person is an atheist, it doesn't mean he doesn't worship anything. It just means he doesn't worship a divine being.

...I guess you must need something to worship, though.

I gotta admit, i only gloss-over lengthy articles here (to avoid falling asleep) especially yours niky. you're way over my head, man, heheh. but these passages hit like a gong. makes sense, doesn't it? i think it's human nature to adore something, anything.

[city]

Impressive Niky! Very Impresive.