Not everything in the Bible is true...

[Psalm136:2]

yun na nga e...

only christian country pa naman tayo this part of asia.

Napaka-relihyoso natin diba? Wednesday sa Baclaran, Black Nazarene thing sa Quiapo, patron saint here, patron saint there, Holy Mother here, Holy Mother there, Santo Nino here, Santo Nino everywhere.......

may holy month of the rosary sa October

may EDSA shrine tayo, may CBCP na napaka-influential at paki-alamero...

May Iglesia ni Cristo, may El Shaddai...

Ung mga dating movie theater ginawang simbahan ng born-again..

May friendly neighborhood dude na lalapitan ka at i-invite ka mag bible study...

We should be a country of saints.

What the hell happened?

Kapatid, nasabi mo na lahat para sagutin ang tanong mo. Though Philippines has all these sort of "religious" people, iba-iba naman ang pinapaniwalaan at dinadasalan. Kaya ganito ang nangyayari sa bansa, wala na ngang unity sa politika, lalong walang unity sa "religion".

Sir suggest ko lang, basahin mo ang Exodus kung bakit nagalit ang Diyos sa mga Israelites, matapos silang makatakas sa Egypt. Ganito rin tayo ngayon.

[5Speed]

Sir Oldblue, its not that i'm an atheist and i know nobody will be spared if society collapses.

Its just scary to think that the only thing holding back religious people from becoming mass murderers is their fear of punishment from God. Though there are believers who do become mass murderers coz they think God told them to kill.

Its the REWARD-PUNISNMENT concept that keeps people in their faith. A promise of everlasting happiness (plus 72 virgins if ur Islamic) in heaven or everlasting torment in hell...

What if there is no reward for being good, and no punishment for being bad... no heaven, no hell... would people remain faithful to their God? or would people abandon their faith and go crazy?

If people obey God coz they are scared to death of being barbequed forever, then people don't love God. They just fear Him.

If people obey God coz they wana live forever in Disneyland-in-the-clouds, then they dont love God. They just want happy comfort and free board&lodging forever.

Take away reward and punishment and the religious people will rethink their faith.

Eeiiii!! we have another argument in here....especially the last 4 paragraph....

any takers??








:popcorn:

[Psalm136:2]

Its just scary to think that the only thing holding back religious people from becoming mass murderers is their fear of punishment from God. Though there are believers who do become mass murderers coz they think God told them to kill.

Sir, in the first place, if the people are "true believers", these things won't happen. God is always emphasizing love and caring for everyone.

Its the REWARD-PUNISNMENT concept that keeps people in their faith. A promise of everlasting happiness (plus 72 virgins if ur Islamic) in heaven or everlasting torment in hell...

Yes this is true when it comes to "religion". That's why Jesus said religion and good works won't save you.

What if there is no reward for being good, and no punishment for being bad... no heaven, no hell... would people remain faithful to their God? or would people abandon their faith and go crazy?

Sir malalaman mo lang to kung patay ka na... Kung wala ngang heaven or hell, then walang nawala sayo, you'll just go back to being dust. Pero kung totoong may heaven and hell, then it's time to think and do something about it while you still have time.

If people obey God coz they are scared to death of being barbequed forever, then people don't love God. They just fear Him.

If people obey God coz they wana live forever in Disneyland-in-the-clouds, then they dont love God. They just want happy comfort and free board&lodging forever.

Take away reward and punishment and the religious people will rethink their faith.

Very much true. Kasi nga eto lang ang laging naiisip at naituturo sa mga tao mula pagkabata. True faith is beyond religion. True faith is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith, meekness, self-control. If a person has all these, he's not religious, he's God loving.

[slamtaz]

Sir Oldblue, its not that i'm an atheist and i know nobody will be spared if society collapses.

Its just scary to think that the only thing holding back religious people from becoming mass murderers is their fear of punishment from God. Though there are believers who do become mass murderers coz they think God told them to kill.

Its the REWARD-PUNISNMENT concept that keeps people in their faith. A promise of everlasting happiness (plus 72 virgins if ur Islamic) in heaven or everlasting torment in hell...

What if there is no reward for being good, and no punishment for being bad... no heaven, no hell... would people remain faithful to their God? or would people abandon their faith and go crazy?

If people obey God coz they are scared to death of being barbequed forever, then people don't love God. They just fear Him.

If people obey God coz they wana live forever in Disneyland-in-the-clouds, then they dont love God. They just want happy comfort and free board&lodging forever.

Take away reward and punishment and the religious people will rethink their faith.

mawalang galang po, napakaraming "if" po kasi nito at ang pagkakaintindi ko sa salitang ito ay tila "pangarap" lang o dili kaya ay "kathang-isip" lamang at "hindi pa" mapatunayang totoo. sa akin po kasing pananaw, kung kumbinsido po kayo na totoo ang isang bagay ay walang puwang ang salitang "if"..

"take away".. maari ko po ba malaman kung sino ang meron kapangyarihang alisin ito?

nagtatanong lang po...

[nat2x]

interesting ideas... :cheers2: :cheers2:

[uls]

mawalang galang po, napakaraming "if" po kasi nito at ang pagkakaintindi ko sa salitang ito ay tila "pangarap" lang o dili kaya ay "kathang-isip" lamang at "hindi pa" mapatunayang totoo. sa akin po kasing pananaw, kung kumbinsido po kayo na totoo ang isang bagay ay walang puwang ang salitang "if"..

"take away".. maari ko po ba malaman kung sino ang meron kapangyarihang alisin ito?

nagtatanong lang po...

"IF" is a word that makes u think.

IF i lose my job, what will i do?

IF our govt is shifted to parliamentary form, what will be the effect?

IF u find out ur best friend is gay, how will it affect ur relationship?

"IF" makes u explore the possibilities.

that's why i use "IF".

IF there is no heaven and no hell, will u remain in ur faith?

TAKE AWAY... ya no one has the power to TAKE AWAY reward and punishment. But i didnt use those words literally.

Just try to imagine IF there is no reward and punishment...

The same thought process u would use when someone asks IF u won 100 million pesos... what will u do?

[theveed]

Uls: The point of religion is you can't question a higher authority's plans/path.

That I understand, but don't agree on... Not it it affects me though.

I've always wondered, if a god told me that my destiny is to take Ortigas, yet I took Marcos highway, am I going to hell?

[GlennSter]

Uls: The point of religion is you can't question a higher authority's plans/path.

That I understand, but don't agree on... Not it it affects me though.

I've always wondered, if a god told me that my destiny is to take Ortigas, yet I took Marcos highway, am I going to hell?

no........




















but you are going to antipolo/cainta..... hihihihihi

sorry cant help it!!!!!!!!!

[theveed]

Heheheh :D

[uls]

Uls: The point of religion is you can't question a higher authority's plans/path.

That I understand, but don't agree on... Not it it affects me though.

I've always wondered, if a god told me that my destiny is to take Ortigas, yet I took Marcos highway, am I going to hell?

Ya i know... religion was designed that way... it has this mechanism that triggers a feeling of guilt and fear when u start questioning ur religion.

its like the mob. u can join the mob. but they will kill u if u leave.

u can join a religion, but if u leave, ur soul gets blow-torched.

BTW, either way, traffic parin. hehe

[5Speed]

no........




















but you are going to antipolo/cainta..... hihihihihi

sorry cant help it!!!!!!!!!

HARHARHARAHRAHRARHARHAR!!!! good answer.....good anwers.....

[niky]

*oldblue:

-RE: Atheists bragging about a moral compass. They don't. It's only the religious who brag about it.

-RE: Scientists/atheists. You stated that science is the greatest producer of atheists nowadays. Which is why I brought this up. A lot of scientists are religious, and a lot of religious people believe in the fruits and principles of science. It is only from a fundamentalist point of view that science counters religion, particularly because fundamentalists cannot accept that the Bible is spiritual in nature, and not physical, and that science only describes the physical.

It is precisely this fundamentalist viewpoint that pushes many of today's scientifically literate people away from religion, their unswaying, unbending belief in even the smallest and most inconsequential points of doctrine... (like the seven days of Creation). Other religious people have learned to ignore the differences and move on.

Again, from many, many pages ago... "give unto Caesar what is Caesar's, give unto God what is God's." Let the matters of the political world be decided there, and let the matters of the physical world be decided by science, while matters of the spirit should be the realm of religion. Which is why the Catholic Church has already stated that Evolution does not run counter to the Bible.

-RE: China. They actually believe in Gods and spirits, but the central philosophy/religion of China at one time was Confucianism, which does not put a supernatural being at the center of the universe.

-RE: bin Laden. If you can't see the connection, you're hopeless. bin Laden is religious. Karl Marx is an atheist. You're definitely not in the same camp as bin Laden, and I, in all truthfulness, hate Karl Marx.

-----

Your only basic points seems to be:

-Atheists cannot create a society or contribute positively to a society.
-They have no source of morality, and cannot have one without a God.
-Having a God, no matter what kind, is automatically good.
-All the evil in the world is done by atheists, and all the 'religious people' who commit evil are actually atheists.

According to Christian doctrine, we are all born with original sin. And all people actually do sin, from time to time. So, according to your definition, we are all atheists from time to time, because we commit evil in the eyes of God.

Just one more time: Not all religions are created equal, and not all religions are moral or have a moral compass as you believe your moral compass to be. And even in your religion, not all people who believe are necessarily good. I've met a lot of people who are religious and kind, and a lot of people who are not religious, yet still kind. But I've met a lot of people I would consider evil or at least misguided, but wholly devoted to the Word. I've also met non-believers who have no morality, too.

If I am to believe you, any time someone does something horribly evil, he becomes an atheist, because only by becoming an atheist can he think he will not be punished. That's completely false. According to many doctrines, killing and war are part of worship. Suicide bombers are promised Paradise and 72 virgins for dying in the name of Allah. Worship of Kali involves strangling and robbing people.

I already told you to read the other books, yet you still seem to believe that none of the holy books can contain such items, though Christians used to justify such atrocities themselves by citing the Old Testament, which is why I strongly oppose the view that everything in the Bible is true, because, through even perfect interpretation, you can justify anything by citing the Bible.

[theveed]

Bible lang ata best seller na "non-fiction" ang walang "Sources" sa dulo ng libro diba? hehe

Lahat ng credible, factual-based books meron, if I'm not mistaken... So technically, fictional nga ang bible.

The Bible - According to Mark Twain...

BIBLE

It is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.
- Letters from the Earth

The two Testaments are interesting, each in its own way. The Old one gives us a picture of these people's Deity as he was before he got religion, the other one gives us a picture of him as he appeared afterward.
- Letters from the Earth

The Christian's Bible is a drug store. Its contents remain the same; but the medical practice changes...The world has corrected the Bible. The church never corrects it; and also never fails to drop in at the tail of the procession- and take the credit of the correction. During many ages there were witches. The Bible said so. the Bible commanded that they should not be allowed to live. Therefore the Church, after eight hundred years, gathered up its halters, thumb-screws, and firebrands, and set about its holy work in earnest. She worked hard at it night and day during nine centuries and imprisoned, tortured, hanged, and burned whole hordes and armies of witches, and washed the Christian world clean with their foul blood.
Then it was discovered that there was no such thing as witches, and never had been. One does not know whether to laugh or to cry.....There are no witches. The witch text remains; only the practice has changed. Hell fire is gone, but the text remains. Infant damnation is gone, but the text remains. More than two hundred death penalties are gone from the law books, but the texts that authorized them remain.
- "Bible Teaching and Religious Practice," Europe and Elsewhere

When one reads Bibles, one is less surprised at what the Deity knows than at what He doesn't know.

- Mark Twain's Notebook

[5Speed]

now we are going.....and going....like an energizer bunny.....

:popcorn::pepsi:

nice arguments lads.....

now I am waiting for the other side's argument....

[Monseratto]

now we are going.....and going....like an energizer bunny.....

:popcorn::pepsi:

nice arguments lads.....

now I am waiting for the other side's argument....

next page pls...

[Psalm136:2]

Bible lang ata best seller na "non-fiction" ang walang "Sources" sa dulo ng libro diba? hehe

Lahat ng credible, factual-based books meron, if I'm not mistaken... So technically, fictional nga ang bible.

The Bible doesn't contain "sources" at the end of the book, basically because it was written thousands of years ago (di pa uso libro, kaya nga tinawag na codex), as you've said, best seller - all time pa nga e.

Kidding aside, places mentioned in the Bible still exist today, some of them still the same names; this makes it factual and non-fiction.

[oldblue]

Sir Oldblue, its not that i'm an atheist and i know nobody will be spared if society collapses.

Its just scary to think that the only thing holding back religious people from becoming mass murderers is their fear of punishment from God. Though there are believers who do become mass murderers coz they think God told them to kill.

Its the REWARD-PUNISNMENT concept that keeps people in their faith. A promise of everlasting happiness (plus 72 virgins if ur Islamic) in heaven or everlasting torment in hell...

What if there is no reward for being good, and no punishment for being bad... no heaven, no hell... would people remain faithful to their God? or would people abandon their faith and go crazy?

If people obey God coz they are scared to death of being barbequed forever, then people don't love God. They just fear Him.

If people obey God coz they wana live forever in Disneyland-in-the-clouds, then they dont love God. They just want happy comfort and free board&lodging forever.

Take away reward and punishment and the religious people will rethink their faith.

eto na lang sir, without the REWARD-PUNISHMENT scheme, will you have finished college or HS or elementary? REWARD - degree, medal PUNISHMENT - drop-out, failure.

without the REWARD-PUNISHMENT scheme, will you have motivation to move up the ladder in your job or your career? REWARD - salary/benefit increase, managerial position PUNISHMENT - getting fired/unemployed or be a rank and file person forever.

without the REWARD-PUNISHMENT scheme, will you try to win a tournament, a contest, a competition? REWARD - respect, trophy, PUNISHMENT - loser, failure.

withou the REWARD-PUNISHMENT scheme, will you engage in business, investment or building your own empire? REWARD - respect, money PUNISHMENT - bankruptcy, failure.

the REWARD-PUNISHMENT is true to almost every aspect of our lives. it gives definition to our lives, gives direction too ...

without that, what now? how will you live a meaningful life?

why single out religion for having these conditions?

[oldblue]

Uls: The point of religion is you can't question a higher authority's plans/path.

That I understand, but don't agree on... Not it it affects me though.

I've always wondered, if a god told me that my destiny is to take Ortigas, yet I took Marcos highway, am I going to hell?

with due respect sir, I'd like to know if you were an atheist since birth, no idea of what christianity is or any other religion for that matter. if you are, then I can respect your answer.

and I will just reply that our God is not like a military general. when you fail you get push ups, demerits, dismissed etc..

Our God once said that he is like a Sheperd who herds flock. when a flock or a sheep wanders off, the Sheperd finds the flock and guides the flock back to the proper direction.

[oldblue]

Ya i know... religion was designed that way... it has this mechanism that triggers a feeling of guilt and fear when u start questioning ur religion.

its like the mob. u can join the mob. but they will kill u if u leave.

u can join a religion, but if u leave, ur soul gets blow-torched.

BTW, either way, traffic parin. hehe

correction sir, the mob will not kill you if you leave or retire but they will definitely kill if you testify against them

speaking of the mob, I've always admired these wonderful group of organized men. They're deeply religious and they're honorable. they are the exact opposite of politicians. They're catholics and they originated from italy. off the record, I think the Pope likes them too and even they answer only to the Vatican and the Pope.

Have been reading about them since God knows when, and you know what? they're very instrumental to our history, world history. ayaw ko na lang mag-elaborate kasi :Off-topic: na me

[oldblue]

Just one more time: Not all religions are created equal, and not all religions are moral or have a moral compass as you believe your moral compass to be.

regarding this sir, I cant really conclude like this bec. I have only experienced one religion within my lifetime. other religions? I've only read about them. and I'm firmly convinced that we have a common pattern. Peace, Love, Forgiveness, Guidance, Piety and other values are being preached.

If I am to believe you, any time someone does something horribly evil, he becomes an atheist, because only by becoming an atheist can he think he will not be punished. That's completely false. According to many doctrines, killing and war are part of worship. Suicide bombers are promised Paradise and 72 virgins for dying in the name of Allah. Worship of Kali involves strangling and robbing people.

for the nth time sir, I didnt say that all evil people are Godless people/ atheists. but I did say the Godless people are those who use religion to harm/kill/destroy other people/religion. I didnt even mention the term evil.
demons are evil but that's another story.

I already told you to read the other books, yet you still seem to believe that none of the holy books can contain such items, though Christians used to justify such atrocities themselves by citing the Old Testament, which is why I strongly oppose the view that everything in the Bible is true, because, through even perfect interpretation, you can justify anything by citing the Bible.

tell me sir, and also a question to all atheists here? what convinced you to believe that the Bible is nothing but an ordinary ancient book? have you decoded/decrypted it yet so sure and so concise that your translation is the best transalation ever!, even surpassing bible scholars of the previous centuries and today?

just a though ....