Not everything in the Bible is true...

[empy]

Nabusog na ako sa popcorn e. Hirit din ako hehe

There is absolutely nothing wrong with religion nor faith for that matter as long as these are tempered by an open mind.

The problem with the world's zealots is that they are willfully ignorant, refusing to exercise their God-given mental gifts in exchange for the comfort of blindly accepting what is fed to them. Faith, and consequently religion, must be reasonable, and it must be informed.

Take aside any self-righteous religious person with the fire of unthinking zeal burning brightly in his eyes and watch him quote verses from his holy book as easily as you and I can type in the tsikot URL (ok, that was a geeky analogy :P). But try asking them a question as to why they beleive or ask them something that falls out of the scope of what they have memorized and watch them fall back to their defense of quote verses, as if quoting obscure verses can patch up the gaping holes in their beliefs.

I believe that religion and faith, like all things in this world, must be taken in moderation. Too much and you tend to condemn people who are not of your ilk, and too little, and you risk losing out on something that can be potentially uplifting.

this is probably the best post i've read on Tsikot in this entire month

The Gospel According to Chip!!

[Flagg]

...*sigh* kung puwede lang mag-evolve ang Bible. What use are Bible Scholars kung walang ma-i-implement na changes?

Parang mga Tongressman? :evillaugh

...The Bible should be edited and re-written already. Get rid of all the Old Testament Jewish writing (eye for an eye stuff... holy wars... definitely not Christian), make it much clearer that Mary Magdalene isn't a prostitute... condense the four Gospels into one... ang dami!...

This I cannot tolerate! What? Remove all the good stuff? Harlotry, war, rebellion, betrayal, more harlotry, dream interpretation, harlotry, harems, yum yum mas ok pa kesa popcorn...

What's wrong with a prostitute? I think it's a very noble profession. Hehehee...

[Flagg]

...Take aside any self-righteous religious person with the fire of unthinking zeal burning brightly in his eyes and watch him quote verses from his holy book as easily as you and I can type in the tsikot URL (ok, that was a geeky analogy :P). But try asking them a question as to why they beleive or ask them something that falls out of the scope of what they have memorized and watch them fall back to their defense of quote verses, as if quoting obscure verses can patch up the gaping holes in their beliefs...

This kinda reminds me of that Hare Krishna guy I met at Orlando airport... high yata yun e, paulit-ulit lang sinasabi.... especially about free love...

Hmm, free love... come to think of it, Orlando's M54 land... :evillaugh

[oldblue]

Originally Posted by oldblue
kumbaga parang Tarzan that was raised by the apes or tribespeople who grew in the isolated regions of this earth or even so, hardliner communists that were deprived of religion.

yun mga atheists ngaun who was given an idea of God thru their parents or their schools during childhood but renounced the idea of God when they grew up. well, tingin ko talaga free riders, nothing else (forgive me for saying). ayaw tumanaw ng utang na loob. and yet they still continue to enjoy the fruits of God's plan, still continue to ignore the sacrifice of our ancestors in matters of faith, and still continue to live amongst us, utilizing the shield of our religious beliefs.

if atheists are really proud to say or to believe that there is no God then they should also be brave enough to detach themselves from us society of believers. That's the noblest thing to do d'ba?

Quote:
"Religious people in general are so discriminatory against other people"

I rest my case, your honor.

as expected. atheists will reply like this. discrimination, marginalized. same reasoning ng mahirap kapag pinagagalitan sila or pinangangaralan. mahirap lang po kami, inaapi nyo po kami, bakit nyo kami ginaganito?

I gave a very challenging thought to atheists here. pero eto lang maisasagot sir *theveed? discrimination?

"Christian" atheists eat and buy rice, dairy and crops like the rest of us. but they fail to realize how hard it us to produce the food that they eat. our farmers aside from toiling each day attending to the crops, pray each day that their crops wont get infested/destroyed. nature can be both helpful and cruel at times. even the most prepared, most skilled, most equipped farmer cant beat nature's wrath, and so they count on miracles and prayers and perhaps even some rituals.

"Christian" atheists take for granted (like it's a given) the harmony in their respective communities bec. of God-fearing members of society . even more they take for granted their religous parents/guardians who lived a God-centered life and passed it onto them for free -> it meaning the values, the treatment, the guidance and the providence.

Christian "atheists" ridicule the written word of God as if all of us believers were duped into believing a contradicting book. but considers a rough-playing basketball star's thoughts/words as words of wisdom. well this is expected naman hehehe.

Christian "atheists" challenges religious people on their thoughts and beliefs about God. But when confronted with the same challenge that goes with atheism, they cry foul! or to be specific they cry discrimination.

atheism is all about independence. independence from the concept of god and independence from God's influence and from God's people. without us, without our civilization, what's in store for you atheists now? what will you do?

like a prodical son who thinks his parents dont exist anymore. parang ganun, what now? kaya nyo ba?

[oldblue]

Then should all Christians denounce, then, modern technology produced by the minds of atheists, agnostics and Muslims? Should we not use items produced by Jews?

Jews, Muslims are god-fearing people sir. they're not atheists. so they're just like us Christians. in other words, they are one of us, believers of a supreme being and god-fearing too.

Religion serves as the glue that binds empires, yes, but religion also causes strife in equal measure, because of our differences of religion, and the unwillingness of religious fundamentalists to accept atheists or those of other religions as human beings. History shows us endless deaths and killings from religion. It also shows us how religion can be used to build empires, to construct civilizations, too. But is that to say it can't be done without religion? Darius once wielded a vast Persian Empire with no organized religion, and he let his vassal states practice as they would. The Greeks had no strong religious ties to any one God, their pantheon may have been co-opted from different pagan gods, piled into one house of gods, yet they created a strong and peaceful democracy, laid down the rules of modern science, and founded the idea of equality of man. The Romans created a vast empire, using the same borrowed and tenuous religion... and they halfway tolerated Christianity and Judaism... until they became wholly Christian.

A unified religion is an aspect of civilization, but it's not always a requirement or precursor for civilization.

I like to believe that those who profit, kill, destroy and create chaos in behalf of religion are atheists too . and they are the worst of the atheists. why? bec. they masquerade as religious people to further their goals. there's nothing more dangerous than people like this d'ba?

they dont believe in a God. they can do whatever they want to do. no inner voice to tell them if they're bad or good. kumbaga total control, total bliss. have it your way ika nga. they can become extremists, they can tell people: "hey God told me to bomb those SOBs out of kingdom come".

after all, what's to fear if they used the name of God in vain, if they dont believe in a God in the first place.

ever think of that? it can happen and i'm sure it's happening. we must also look at the bigger picture. Godless people incognito, yan ang dapat katakutan.

That's why I don't like organized religion, and I think it's unfair to say that all our gifts come from any person's God. We should all be sleeping in mud huts then, without electricity, because without the insipration of the Greeks (who were wantonly non-monotheistic people) we wouldn't have had the renaissance, or the birth of modern science.

again sir. the greeks believe in Zeus hehehe. A God that can be good to them, punish them or even make babies with them

Atheists are people who don't want to or don't need to believe in a hereafter... or who don't think that a God is needed necessarily, for there to be a hereafter. Atheism doesn't come from inexperience with God. Most atheists grew up in a religious household, and grew away from the faith, because they didn't like what they saw there. They looked at the history of religion and found it wanting. It's a personal choice, and a hard one, but I can respect that.

it's true. I agree with you very much. atheist-converts long for something. they are not satisfied with God as the beginning and the end. they are not satisfied with how religion divides people, they are not satisfied with how an old book like the bible narrates conflicting stories about war, betrayal, hatred and love (as they say)

cge, I'll become an atheist for a moment. I'll omit God, religion and the bible in my life. now my question: can I also omit war, betrayal, hatred and love? am I exempted of these na din ba?

I guess not. I can still have war, betrayal, hatred and love ... PLUS ... dissatisfaction! (as taken from above, they were never satisfied to begin with) A very dangerous mix!

If the atheists should disconnect themselves from society because their beliefs are different, then we should all go our separate ways. Sa INC ang INC, sa ADD ang ADD, sa El Shaddai ang mga El Shaddai. We shouldn't mix with Muslims, Jews, Buddhists or Hindus. We shouldn't accept Korean cars or Japanese appliances. We shouldn't accept American money because much of it is Protestant and/or Agnostic/Atheist. Paano tayo dyan?

it's only a suggestion lang naman. the Christians, the Muslims, the Jews, the buddhists etc. went on each of their separate ways since the beginning to prove something. And they proved that their beliefs were strong enough to be worthy of each other's attention.

dapat ganun din siguro atheists ... you cannot be just an atheist by just telling believers that they are wrong, and that their books, scriptures and writings are horseshit. i mean that is so easy to do ...


prove it d'ba and the best way: detach yourselves from us, and give us answers after you have become independent from us. science should not only be the answer bec. science itself cant explain all things happening around us, just like religion. in that way, mas maging convincing kayo ...

tama po ba mga sirs.

[theveed]

Ah, Oldblue:

I never once said that your belief is wrong, what I'm saying is your notion of what an athiest is, is skewed.

Just as you never see me post a single letter sa "daily scripture" thread, maybe you should see the light that some people don't see the point of being so "deity fearing" instead of insisting that "we're blind".

Just as there's no need for believers to prove their faith, there's absolutely no reason for us to prove to you our reasoning since you're religion and politics are pointless discussions.

There's really not much religion can say to me that makes the argument "convincing" either... so what's your point? After all your long post on this topic, I still think the Bible stories are nothing more than stories.

[mazdamazda]

prove it d'ba and the best way: detach yourselves from us, and give us answers after you have become independent from us. science should not only be the answer bec. science itself cant explain all things happening around us, just like religion. in that way, mas maging convincing kayo ...

IMO.

This is already a little too confrontational against atheists.

Try to understand also that not all "God-less" persons (such as atheists) are morally irresponsible.

Same thing also with those "God-fearing" persons - not all who claim to be a Christian or such lives by the word. What more - religion can be bent and twisted out of control by fundamentalists and extremists.

For example, the Middle East conflict - moderate minded Muslims don't really support a jihad against non-Muslims. Heck, even in the Koran, it was even stated that they should live peacefully among the "people of the Book" (which included Jews & Christians).

[city]

Atheists are human beings who came to realize that not everything in the bible is true. These people have come to understand things can be explained without relying to a wild imaginations. These are people who realized that life can be lived without religion. But this doesnt mean they are immoral and savages. This doesn't mean they have no compassion for fellow humans and that they are not capable of love.

Kinda strange to hear there are christian atheists. Are there muslim atheists or bhuddist atheists?

Atheists are people who by careful study found one simple truth. There is no such thing as god, satan, ghosts, hell, heaven, afterlife, angels, burning bush, talking donkeys, man walking on water as depicted in the bible, koran, vedas, and other religious texts as these stories have no evidences to show that they exist or happened in history and to date.

The above statement is from a cute atheist...........(wag mag react theveed, M2, glennster, niky, imau)

[theveed]

Ampucha, may pahabol pa na "Cute" hehe...

[5Speed]

herherherherher....

:popcorn:

[theveed]

Magbenta na kaya ako ng Popcorn hehe. Lakas ng market eh...

[niky]

RE: Atheists and culture:

I stand by what I said. If atheists should reject the goods produced by the religious, then the religious should also reject goods created by atheists. But then, this brings up a question... is it black-and-white? Are there just God Fearing people and Atheists?

Just as there are Religious Fundamentalists, there are Atheistic Fundamentalists, who will preach to you till they are blue that "there is no God". But there are moderates, also, who are firm in their belief that there is no God, but they don't go around bothering everyone with their theories.

Then there are the low-level atheists and agnostics, who are only thus because they are dissatisfied with religion.

In religion, you have the Fundamentalists, who preach fire and brimstone and death to all unbelievers.

You have the moderates, the faithful who can accept the existence of other people.

You have the low-level faithful, who are vaguely religious but think about it as often as you or I think about going to the dentist to have a tooth pulled. These people are susceptible to other religions, too.

So... where do you draw the line? What if the person who plants the rice is a low-level faithful? What if he's an agnostic? How do you know that all farmers are religious? That all advances in science or culture were inspired by religion? And what's the difference between science and religion? What if a scientist's religion is the worship of knowledge? What if the atheist worships justice or ethics?

Scientists are usually either low-level religious or low-level agnostics. Some are Christian, some are Muslim or Jewish or otherwise. Those who are deeply religious can't open their minds enough to new ideas. This includes the Religion of Scientific Dogma, which precludes them from accepting new ideas until overwhelming evidence proves them wrong.

Many other scientists believe there is a God, but that we cannot know him with our limited ability to observe the universe. Others believe there is none.

If "Christian Atheists" should not accept the fruits of the labor of very religious people... those same very religious people should not accept the fruits of the work of "moderate or low-level" religious, because they are nowhere near as faithful as true-believers, and they only recite the Lord's Prayer as a matter of ritual.

Harmony in a community is not a result of whether or not the community has a religion. It's a function of the common will of the community, and how well they get along, regardless of religion.

It's hard for one to understand if they don't live in a mixed-ethnic community how this can work, but you don't all have to go to the same Church to live peacefully together. Again, the shared religion is not always a precursor to forming a community, though it does help.

And you can't use non-monotheistic religions or cultures as an example, as those people have no common God to unite them. One subset of Greeks will worship one god, another will worship another. There's no common Spirit that guides them. The practice of praying to saints arose from the need to have "gods" for different subsets of the populace, a carryover from our old culture of pagan worship.

What do atheists have to prove? That they believe killing is evil and stealing is wrong? Of course they do. Being an atheist does not mean that you are a Godless savage who will rape and kill, just as being religious does not mean you will not do the same. I wonder if anyone has statistics on how many axe-murderers are atheists... it would be interesting.

And I beg to differ on the point of view regarding religious war and killing. Those happen precisely because the faith of the followers is so strong that they believe anything is justifiable if done in the name of God. Thus, terrorists aren't afraid of death or killing children, because their leaders tell them it's in the name of God. The leader may be a terrible example of a religious person, using religion as merely a propaganda tool, but the followers can be perfectly faithful and never know the difference.

It isn't always religion. A lot of soldiers will fight for other abstract ideals, like communism or democracy or freedom. In the name of freedom, the Irish Republican Army killed a lot of civilians in their time .

Of course, wars nowadays are not started over religion. Wars are often an exercise of political and economical power struggles. Religion is only used as a weapon in these wars, to differentiate friend from foe... just as race, ethnicity or historical or imagined wrongs are used as justifications for war.

Anyway, the entire answer to your questions is here:

I believe that religion and faith, like all things in this world, must be taken in moderation. Too much and you tend to condemn people who are not of your ilk, and too little, and you risk losing out on something that can be potentially uplifting.

If you can accept that there are some people who believe in many Gods, then you must also accept that there are some people who don't believe in any Gods. A man's worth is not measured in which belief system he adheres to, but how he applies that to other people.

If you are a true Christian, you'll accept the worth of the non-Christian... as Christ himself pointed out in the Parable of the Good Samaritan, you don't exactly have to be a Jew to be a good person. It's this open-mindedness towards others that made Christianity grow in the first place. Most religions will reject those not of the right blood.

So keep an open mind towards those who aren't of the "right religion" (and that includes atheists). Someday, they may come around, or maybe they won't. As long as you treat them as human and they do the same, no harm, no foul.

[theveed]

Wow, galing hehe...

[Helios]

Religion, my favorite subject of bile, is a great conversation killer, but if religion is a conversation killer, so is everything else -- not the least my favorite subjects (in the armchair-critic sort of way): politics, ethics/morality, language and literature, environment, science, music, art, culture, national identity, architecture, economics, corporate/office/cubicle culture, etc.
I guess it's but human nature to be easily offended, the freedom of expression of others be damned. Or it could be that most pople don't really have an opinion, don't know what they think. Or it could be that I'm too opinionated. In any case, it's not much fun talking to oneself. So I guess I'll just keep my tongue from slipping and instead display my faith thru actions.

Time Out! here's an icebreaker!

Teacher: Billy, pls read ur not less than 100-word essay abt ur cat.

Billy: Yes, Ma'am! My cat (bow).
I hav a cat. Her name s Mingming. Ystrday, she was lost. I lukd 4 her. Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming! Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming! Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!

Wer r u, Mingming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming! Ming! Ming!

My cat. (bow)

Hey you, don't change the channel

[niky]

Time Out! here's an icebreaker!

Teacher: Billy, pls read ur not less than 100-word essay abt ur cat.

Billy: Yes, Ma'am! My cat (bow).
I hav a cat. Her name s Mingming. Ystrday, she was lost. I lukd 4 her. Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming! Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming! Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!Ming!

Wer r u, Mingming? Ming? Ming? Ming? Ming! Ming! Ming!

My cat. (bow)

Hey you, don't change the channel

Billy should fail. That's only 60 words... + 2 if you count Mingming as two words... hehehe.

[BlueBimmer]

niky, record breaking looooooooooooooooooooong post

[Chip]

ahihihi sobra ka naman sir m54

back to our regular programming

[uls]

God Is A Kid With An Ant Farm.

[Monseratto]

can't wait for the next page...

[oldblue]

Ah, Oldblue:

I never once said that your belief is wrong, what I'm saying is your notion of what an athiest is, is skewed.

Just as you never see me post a single letter sa "daily scripture" thread, maybe you should see the light that some people don't see the point of being so "deity fearing" instead of insisting that "we're blind".

Just as there's no need for believers to prove their faith, there's absolutely no reason for us to prove to you our reasoning since you're religion and politics are pointless discussions.

There's really not much religion can say to me that makes the argument "convincing" either... so what's your point? After all your long post on this topic, I still think the Bible stories are nothing more than stories.

ako sir *theveed, eh confused din dyan sa bible. so many contradicting messages, so many stories of revenge, punishment and nepotism etc. but you see I cant just conclude that the scriptures are mere stories. if it survived time, then it must be bigger than me, beyond my understanding, and perhaps, even beyond the interpretation of the modern Church.

yun lang naman sir. I dont judge the book by its contents

you know what is only consistent about the Bible. it's ability to confuse people. Catholics, Protestants and other sub-Christian religions each have their own interpretation. Priests, bishops, lay minister each have their own interpretation during homily and sermons.

that characteristic alone explains why a lot of people, including me, are drawn to it. no other story book in history can compare to this, except other religious books like the Koran & others siguro. even yun mga popular story books ngaun like LOTR and Harry Potter, may beginning, may plot, may ending. pagkabasa mo, tapos na kagad, next book pls ... sobrang forgetful kasi nasatisfy na questions/curiousity mo eh. may closure ika nga.