Not everything in the Bible is true...

[oldblue]

Guys,

I would like to make a public apology. M54 is right, i'm such a self righteous hypocritical jerk. Gave it a lot of thought and would like to say sorry to all those whom i attacked and put down in this thread especially to glennster, BB, M2, oldblue, coder, psalm, flagg and to all other tsikoteers. My statements do sound offensive and like forcing what I think about this bible and god thing. I sounded like i know everything but i dont. I realized it's not healthy to make offensive statements and make others think like I do. Religion has its drawbacks and good side. It's the person who tries to practice it that makes religion bad.

My views and concept of god and religion remains the same. It's a choice I plan on sticking for hte rest of my life and will try my best to be tolerant as possible.

Thanks to Niky, Theveed , imau for at lest understanding my stand.

Again, to all tsikoteers, believers and non believers, I apologize sincerely for forcing my views. Atheists can sometimes be an ***hole. That includes me.

Thanks M54 for giving me the wake up call I needed. Thanks bro. Didn't hate you for that and I must say it did make me stay awake for one night and reflected on what you said. Sorry for acting like a superior dork. You guys are wonderful. I've considered this site a home and would like to stay.

I'll be around.

laters

for me sir, you dont need to apologize. to be honest, I think you're one of those people that I like to share ideas with. frank, hard-hitting and straight to the point and does not hide on alibis and soliciting support. I respect that very much.

[Flagg]

people see what they want to see.


any idea how religion come about or how humans created god?

Well, I didn't see nor did I want to see. It just decided to do its thing.

Dunno. I always thought it was the other way around. How about you?

[Flagg]

Guys,

I would like to make a public apology. M54 is right, i'm such a self righteous hypocritical jerk. Gave it a lot of thought and would like to say sorry to all those whom i attacked and put down in this thread especially to glennster, BB, M2, oldblue, coder, psalm, flagg and to all other tsikoteers. My statements do sound offensive and like forcing what I think about this bible and god thing. I sounded like i know everything but i dont. I realized it's not healthy to make offensive statements and make others think like I do. Religion has its drawbacks and good side. It's the person who tries to practice it that makes religion bad.

My views and concept of god and religion remains the same. It's a choice I plan on sticking for hte rest of my life and will try my best to be tolerant as possible.

Thanks to Niky, Theveed , imau for at lest understanding my stand.

Again, to all tsikoteers, believers and non believers, I apologize sincerely for forcing my views. Atheists can sometimes be an ***hole. That includes me.

Thanks M54 for giving me the wake up call I needed. Thanks bro. Didn't hate you for that and I must say it did make me stay awake for one night and reflected on what you said. Sorry for acting like a superior dork. You guys are wonderful. I've considered this site a home and would like to stay.

I'll be around.

laters

Don't worry sir, I, for one, rather enjoyed reading your posts (well, the more well-argued ones ). You may notice there are some to which I don't react. I did think a few times of referring you to AFO to cool down a little... :bwahaha:

I also didn't really feel attacked, however, I feel that your answers to sir M54 were certainly uncalled for.

Rest assured that I do respect your stand. The posts I made here were what I learned from my readings of Christianity to explain certain points and not to denigrate anyone.

[Flagg]

...So, for the religious folks, do you believe that everything in the bible is factual? By factual, I mean, there's no "hypothetical" or "figuratively-speaking" statements in it to leads to ambigious interpretations?

Sir theveed, contextually from your above statement, I would interpret 'factual' as 'literal'. If so, IMHO, no sir. There is no such thing as a work of literature which can be taken in a strictly literal sense. In the US Declaration of Independence, there is a phrase: "...the pursuit of happiness..." Imagine taking that phrase literally... :bwahaha:

Honestly, I like Psalm's arguments in this thread, insightful, yet non-discriminatory

Well, I did find some of them a little narrow in definition (no offense sir Psalm), however excellent the manner they were written.

[Flagg]

IMO, there's no need to go into a debate. Believers should simply do their part as they are "inspired" to do. It may be that your role is just to plant the seed. The watering and the harvesting may be the tasks of others in God's perfect time. IMO, to do more than what God assigned you to do is to go against His will.

Hey,this is pretty good.

[city]

wow. thank you for that, and i salute you for showing a lot of class and self-introspection. all i really wanted was to point that out since you may not have realized it, and none of this was personal on my part.

however, i said a couple of things i shouldn't have because i got a little irritated with one thing i read, but i've put that behind me. hope you can forgive that

for the record, and since we're all apologizing here, i believe some folks owe you an apology as well, since there has been plenty of imposition going around from all sides. i also sympathize with your situation - living in a catholic country and probably facing a lot of unfair judgements from people who think that being an atheist automatically makes you a bad person. with the above post, you've proven yourself to be a better man than all of them in my book.

i hope you didn't beat yourself up too much over this...like i said in a previous post i know you to be a mature and thoughtful individual on other topics, and i know this isn't you. peace

:grouphugg:

thanks man....appreciate your post. ..care for a cup of coffee?

[city]

city..inom nalang tayo!!!tama natoh.ehehehehe.

actually...naaliw ako mula nung tumahimik nako sa thread na ito.nagbabasa parin..naaaliw kasi it brings back memories when i was like you. kaya di ako tuluyang magalit dahil nakikita ko talaga ang sarili ko sa inyo.lalao na sayo.although hindi exakto, malapit at similar naman ang way of thinking natin pagdating sa usapang aetheism (mas intelihente nga lang ang karamihan ng mga sinabi mo...hehehe)

theveed: NO.not everything is factual.definitely not...

hahahaha.. that i would love to do...alabang area ha..heheheh...and i agree...you sometimes come to a point where you just have to accept the world as it is....diverse!..ain't it pretty if it stays like that, di ba.

[city]

Don't worry sir, I, for one, rather enjoyed reading your posts (well, the more well-argued ones ). You may notice there are some to which I don't react. I did think a few times of referring you to AFO to cool down a little... :bwahaha:

I also didn't really feel attacked, however, I feel that your answers to sir M54 were certainly uncalled for.

Rest assured that I do respect your stand. The posts I made here were what I learned from my readings of Christianity to explain certain points and not to denigrate anyone.

too much pride i guess...oh well, it doesnt feel good so better give it up. felt better after i did. thanks flagg.

[city]

for me sir, you dont need to apologize. to be honest, I think you're one of those people that I like to share ideas with. frank, hard-hitting and straight to the point and does not hide on alibis and soliciting support. I respect that very much.

thanks OB...i'll be around.

[theveed]

Sir theveed, contextually from your above statement, I would interpret 'factual' as 'literal'. If so, IMHO, no sir. There is no such thing as a work of literature which can be taken in a strictly literal sense. In the US Declaration of Independence, there is a phrase: "...the pursuit of happiness..." Imagine taking that phrase literally...

i believe that the Bible is both factual and figuratively. e.g. during the old times, people received mana from Heaven as their food but now we don't see food falling from Heaven. God uses people as a channel to reach us.

theveed: do i believe the Bible is factual? you mean, would I rather read the Genesis say, " ...in the beginning God designed the DNA to support cellular life, commanded the universe to maintain electromagnetic equilibrium while constantly expanding, and created a distinct energy wavelengths that would cause sensation on the optic nerves visible as brightness..." ? heck, yeah! why not, heheh.

Even considering that there are many Christain groups each with unique interpretation of the Bible, my belief is that the Bible is the word of God. It is true to its essence of God's love, forgiveness, mercy and salvation.

NO.not everything is factual.definitely not...

you mean if 100% factual? I believe so. in fact, I even consider it as a good business book, if the bible is applied to business. The American democratic system is the best example of the bible when applied to real world scenarios.

So I guess within the Bible-reading crowd alone, there's no consensus that the book you're using as a guide to your lives as factual and is its interpretation is limited to the human mind's capability of twisting the reading to suit one's belief, am I safe to assume that?

[20vanda01]

simulan ko na... kung ang Diyos mismo ang sinasabing Author ng Biblia, walang sinuman siguro ang makakapagsabing may maling nakasulat dito, mapa-iskolar man sya o kabisado ang biblia from genesis to revelations.

pero sa ilang henerasyon na pasalinsalin ang biblia, kang nabago sa banal na aklat natin, magkulang lang ng PERIOD, Comma o may mabagong salita dito... napakalaing pagbabago na sa interpretasyon ng nakakarami.

2 sentimo ko

That's why the Muslim community has always few if not some of them memorize the Quoran word for word to maintain integrity of the teaching.
And then whoever that person who memorized, will have to pass on to his sibling to memorize it also. Alam ko pinipili lang nila kung sino dapat mabigyan ng ganitong opportunity. Not sure how.

[oldblue]

So I guess within the Bible-reading crowd alone, there's no consensus that the book you're using as a guide to your lives as factual and is its interpretation is limited to the human mind's capability of twisting the reading to suit one's belief, am I safe to assume that?

let's see, twisting the reading to suit one's belief ... that's a good point. you know, from time to time I cant help but wonder if I am just relating the Bible to our everyday life. am I just like those sermon priests that we Christians listen to every Sunday? are we just trying to relate, trying to compare or trying to take reference to the readings so as to give meaning to our Christian lives?

yes I think it's a safe for you to assume that. but do consider also, that most Christian turned atheist are not exempt from the "interpretation is limited to the human mind's capability" that you mentioned. we're all humans.

[Imau]

Guys,

I would like to make a public apology. M54 is right, i'm such a self righteous hypocritical jerk. Gave it a lot of thought and would like to say sorry to all those whom i attacked and put down in this thread especially to glennster, BB, M2, oldblue, coder, psalm, flagg and to all other tsikoteers. My statements do sound offensive and like forcing what I think about this bible and god thing. I sounded like i know everything but i dont. I realized it's not healthy to make offensive statements and make others think like I do. Religion has its drawbacks and good side. It's the person who tries to practice it that makes religion bad.

My views and concept of god and religion remains the same. It's a choice I plan on sticking for hte rest of my life and will try my best to be tolerant as possible.

Thanks to Niky, Theveed , imau for at lest understanding my stand.

Again, to all tsikoteers, believers and non believers, I apologize sincerely for forcing my views. Atheists can sometimes be an ***hole. That includes me.

Thanks M54 for giving me the wake up call I needed. Thanks bro. Didn't hate you for that and I must say it did make me stay awake for one night and reflected on what you said. Sorry for acting like a superior dork. You guys are wonderful. I've considered this site a home and would like to stay.

I'll be around.

laters

I've met you personally bro and I know that you are a sensible person. heck you even attended my daughter's catholic baptism di ka nga lang pumunta sa simbahan hehehe . pa test drive na lang ng camry or cefiro mo.

[Psalm136:2]

I've gotta disagree with you here. What's so special with the peoples of thousands of years ago that they get to write the Word of God? Is it because wala pang computer noon kaya medyo mahirap magsulat?.

Finally, I was given a chance to post again. Ok, I think you misquoted me on this one. I was merely emphasizing the point kung bakit as others are saying; "masyado ng maraming Bible translations na kumakalat," therefore, di na raw accurate ito from the original books. One reason is to preserve the "contents" of the Bible by rewriting each book bago tuluyang maging alikabok yung mga original manuscripts. This is of course a practical explanation. Now on the more spiritual side of it, kailangan ng um-attend ng Bible study sessions, para mas ma-tackle ng husto.

That the Bible is evolutionary does not make God compromising. It simply shows His revelatory nature. The Bible has obviously evolved before from using the primitive, carnal imagery of the OT to the more complex allegories of the NT. Why is it against the 'rules' to one day include books of God's revelations in our times?

That death punishment is a case of man once again putting words in God's mouth. Is it not obvious that the Sabbath is simply God's wise way of saying: all work and no play makes you a very dull boy.

Hindi yun kasi mahigpit si God. Don't we remember that Jesus Christ had to come here to show the true and gentle way cuz them chosen people just couldn't get it right.

The punishment by death, IMO, is simply man's usual officiousness. Punishments are always a great source of income, no? Kinda like the NLEX speed limits of today, unwarranted officiousness. Time & again, the autobahn has proven that speed limits on freeway-type roads are pure BS.

Sorry but I don't want to be dragged into a debate. I just hope that you try to study the Bible, you'll have all the answers you need. The coming of Christ was already prophesied even from the 3rd chapter of Genesis, wala pang chosen people as you've said.

[Psalm136:2]

all i'm saying sir is bec. of too much attention and giving importance to our future kaya andami nagiging depressed about christianity. or judgment day to be specific.

if we will look at the bigger picture, the bible is all about struggle between man and God. Man sins, Man confesses, Man gets forgiven. even in the time of Abraham, his form of confession was to sacrifice his own son to appease god. Then his descendants forget the event, sins again, God forgives them again. OT people stray away from God, god sends his only son to bring 'em back and forgives them, hence, the NT.

The true message of the bible is all about forgiveness. Man has always this habit of going on his own way after God forgave him. It's a continuous guiding process by God to bring us back to him. THAT's THE ONLY SINGLE MESSAGE. all other stories are just details to reinforce it. but somehow, some people are more into details, like the scientist inside 'em.

You know why Man always stray away from God. It's bec. of the generation gap. somehow the new generation always spell trouble. Parents/Oldies guide 'em, nurture 'em, teach 'em about God but even with these good intentions, something goes wrong pa din.

Young people are always stubborn. They react from almost everything: too much mention of God, fear from future punishment of God, they cant have *** after graduation bec. God says its wrong, they blame God bec. of a misfortune in life and so on and so forth. We can only rely on statistics, young people in the age bracket of 20-30 have the highest statistics on atheistic tendencies. but as they age, nababawasan na yan.
why? bec. they will realize than they're no different from the older people's experiences. pagdadaanan din nila ang hardships in life, and they'll soon realize why their parents are fearful at times but God-centered. yun corny na parents nila, magiging ganun din sila pagtanda.

most people fail to realize that judgment day (or the revelation) is also about forgiveness. even to the very end, even as the world crumbles, God will still ask you if you will turn away from your worldly ways and join him.

sin and forgiveness in the religious sense only signifies "make mistakes and learn from it" in the real world context. it's ok to sin or to make mistakes, as long as you learn from it. kumbaga trial and error.

it's so ironical that we accept the trial and error method as an important experimentation tool in science, but we cant accept it in real life, in subjecting our own spirituality to it. Our life is one whole experiment. that's the reason we are here. wag masyado pressur-in sarili for the future.

*Psalm, I know you are a religious person and I believe you have read the bible like any other religious experts. Me, I only rely on quotes for the day I dont even go to mass unless there is an event like weddings, baptisms etc. homilies bore the hell out of me. I cant stand priests relating gospels to what they experienced the previous week .

tell me am I wrong with the bible? isnt it all about forgiveness?

yun lang naman d'ba, so why complicate it?

I'll have to agree with you on some of your analogy. But what i can say is, it's not all about forgiveness, yes it's about the struggle between man and himself, not with God, not even with Satan. As you've said, man has always this habit of going on his own way.

The Bible is all about God's love to the people, His divine and unmerited love. Maski ayaw ng tao, naghihintay pa rin Sya. It's man who complicates things. Like you said, mahilig mag-experiment ang tao.

[Psalm136:2]

Guys,

I would like to make a public apology. M54 is right, i'm such a self righteous hypocritical jerk. Gave it a lot of thought and would like to say sorry to all those whom i attacked and put down in this thread especially to glennster, BB, M2, oldblue, coder, psalm, flagg and to all other tsikoteers. My statements do sound offensive and like forcing what I think about this bible and god thing. I sounded like i know everything but i dont. I realized it's not healthy to make offensive statements and make others think like I do. Religion has its drawbacks and good side. It's the person who tries to practice it that makes religion bad.

My views and concept of god and religion remains the same. It's a choice I plan on sticking for hte rest of my life and will try my best to be tolerant as possible.

Thanks to Niky, Theveed , imau for at lest understanding my stand.

Again, to all tsikoteers, believers and non believers, I apologize sincerely for forcing my views. Atheists can sometimes be an ***hole. That includes me.

Thanks M54 for giving me the wake up call I needed. Thanks bro. Didn't hate you for that and I must say it did make me stay awake for one night and reflected on what you said. Sorry for acting like a superior dork. You guys are wonderful. I've considered this site a home and would like to stay.

I'll be around.

laters

God bless you bro.

[Psalm136:2]

IMO, there's no need to go into a debate. Believers should simply do their part as they are "inspired" to do. It may be that your role is just to plant the seed. The watering and the harvesting may be the tasks of others in God's perfect time. IMO, to do more than what God assigned you to do is to go against His will.

Amen ako dito bro.

[Psalm136:2]

Sir theveed, contextually from your above statement, I would interpret 'factual' as 'literal'. If so, IMHO, no sir. There is no such thing as a work of literature which can be taken in a strictly literal sense. In the US Declaration of Independence, there is a phrase: "...the pursuit of happiness..." Imagine taking that phrase literally... :bwahaha:

Well, I did find some of them a little narrow in definition (no offense sir Psalm), however excellent the manner they were written.

I'm not offended sir. I don't even consider them excellently written because first of all, I'm not a good writer. I just wanted to share to everyone what I've learned and still continuing to learn from the Bible. If you find them "narrow", so be it. Eveybody is entitled to his own opinion and comments. One important lesson I learned is about humility.

[Psalm136:2]

So I guess within the Bible-reading crowd alone, there's no consensus that the book you're using as a guide to your lives as factual and is its interpretation is limited to the human mind's capability of twisting the reading to suit one's belief, am I safe to assume that?

I guess you can assume that sir. Based on my experience, God communicates to man through the Bible on a personal level. So one message from the Bible may mean differently to several readers, kaya nagkakaiba-iba ng interpretations.

In the first place, God did not say "interpret my messages"; but rather "study and meditate on it".

[Psalm136:2]

That's why the Muslim community has always few if not some of them memorize the Quoran word for word to maintain integrity of the teaching.
And then whoever that person who memorized, will have to pass on to his sibling to memorize it also. Alam ko pinipili lang nila kung sino dapat mabigyan ng ganitong opportunity. Not sure how.

True. Kaya naman kung titingnan natin, iilan sa mga Muslims ang nagbabasa at nakakaintindi ng Quran dahil sa ganitong practice. But my question is, does it serve the purpose?