GUNS: Russia VS USA

[Vodka]

Jamming not really an issue unless you're in a steaming hot jungle with grit or mud inside the mechanism.

As foresterx says... the AK is not a very accurate gun.

Your chances of surviving a firefight are much greater if you can hit your opponents and incapacitate them first. I'd rather have a more accurate gun and not drop it in the mud like an idiot.

mud and grit are exactly what you're gonna have in a **** hits the fan scenario or zombie apocalypse

AK is plenty accurate. remember these are "assault rifles" not sniper rifles. accuracy isn't the limiting factor. the reliability of the weapon and the shooter's skills and tactics are more important than ultimate accuracy

[SiRbossR]

mud and grit are exactly what you're gonna have in a **** hits the fan scenario or zombie apocalypse

AK is plenty accurate. remember these are "assault rifles" not sniper rifles. accuracy isn't the limiting factor. the reliability of the weapon and the shooter's skills and tactics are more important than ultimate accuracy

Have you ever seen an AK being shot? The recoil definitely kills the accuracy right there. Parang one by one lang pwedeng itira para accurate

[boybacolod]

Our Generals made AK-47 vs M16 (US vs Russian) a test which is "tough" by selling AK-47 to the rebels to battle against our Armed Forces. Kung dika sira!


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[Monseratto]

How do those compare to the HK 416 and the G36 variants? Also to the Israeli Tavor?

[foresterx]

well don't forget the Makarov pistol. afaik it has the lowest parts count of any pistol. with a solid reputation for reliability. again it's not really about the "best" coz the definition of "best" depends on the criteria used

russian weapons had to be reliable under adverse conditions, and had to be cheap to manufacture, hence the stamped metal parts. should be inherently simple to the extent that they could be rather unrefined. the AK and Makarov definitely met those objectives

then of course you have to consider cost. AK's are simply a lot cheaper. period. so you could equip more of your guys for the same money. coz quantity has a quality of it's own hahahaha.

but if money wasn't an issue i'd probably get a bullpup...

yup makarov was a great pistol at it's time, but you can't compare it to modern pistols that are coming out. it's an all time classic pistol though.

parts of the AK are cheaper that is true, but here in the philippines not so much. i guess it depends on where you are. like i said AK parts, accessories and ammo are more expensive here and pretty hard to find.

oh and don't forget that the russian AK has stopped it's production in the 90's, AK's that are coming out today are the chinese clones not the original russian made.

mud and grit are exactly what you're gonna have in a **** hits the fan scenario or zombie apocalypse

AK is plenty accurate. remember these are "assault rifles" not sniper rifles. accuracy isn't the limiting factor. the reliability of the weapon and the shooter's skills and tactics are more important than ultimate accuracy

how can you get mud and grit if you're in the city? how big of a chance will you have to escape the city and run to the jungle. also like i said previously there are tons of m16's that are just as reliable as the AK these days.

AK plenty accurate?:bwahaha: have you ever fired one? you're the first to say that. just because we say accuracy doesn't mean it has to be sniper rifle accurate. if AK was so great then why aren't most military using it? some of the best military are still using m16 rifles. usa, israel, most of european forces (germany,uk,etc.). the russians aren't even using the ak47 anymore in their military. they're using the new ak103 which is a more developed ak47.

How do those compare to the HK 416 and the G36 variants? Also to the Israeli Tavor?

HK416 is pretty reliable and accurate, it has the reliability of the AK and accuracy of the m16. that is why it is being used by tons of special forces all over the world. the tavor is another great gun and also pretty reliable, like i said tons of modern guns these days are just as reliable as the AK plus it is a lot more accurate than the AK. the AK is an all time classic and if you love guns, AK is one of the rifles you'll want in your collection.

[badkuk]

oh and don't forget that the russian AK has stopped it's production in the 90's, AK's that are coming out today are the chinese clones not the original russian made.

hmm, so that means baka magkaron na ng AK-47 sa CDR King soon :D

[chookchakchenes]

so you're saying russians are dirty old gays?

i think your username is ridiculously gay

OT ulit

Yung gag show dito sa pinas yun at philippine setting yung description nila.

Favorite ata sa chicos at club 690 ang vodka. hahahahahhaha

[Monseratto]

I know it's a shotgun...hehehe.

[dr. d]

both the US and russia have their best guns.. both also have their share of forgettable models.

ak47 is rugged and will take unbelievable abuse and still keep firing. but it won't be a sniper's first choice.
m16 is a precision instrument, and demands reasonable care. but it is the more accurate weapon.

if you are a terrorist and you don't really care who your bullets will hit, you'll probably like the more rugged ak47.
if you must choose your targets, and you have the discipline to maintain your equipment, m16 for you.

parts and ammo availability? ...depends on what language the general population around you is speaking..

[Vodka]

yup makarov was a great pistol at it's time, but you can't compare it to modern pistols that are coming out. it's an all time classic pistol though.

parts of the AK are cheaper that is true, but here in the philippines not so much. i guess it depends on where you are. like i said AK parts, accessories and ammo are more expensive here and pretty hard to find.

oh and don't forget that the russian AK has stopped it's production in the 90's, AK's that are coming out today are the chinese clones not the original russian made.

how can you get mud and grit if you're in the city? how big of a chance will you have to escape the city and run to the jungle. also like i said previously there are tons of m16's that are just as reliable as the AK these days.

AK plenty accurate?:bwahaha: have you ever fired one? you're the first to say that. just because we say accuracy doesn't mean it has to be sniper rifle accurate. if AK was so great then why aren't most military using it? some of the best military are still using m16 rifles. usa, israel, most of european forces (germany,uk,etc.). the russians aren't even using the ak47 anymore in their military. they're using the new ak103 which is a more developed ak47.

nope the Makarov is still a very popular carry piece, i wouldn't hesitate to carry one. if i had a choice between a walther PPK or a makarov i'd pick the Mak (german or bulgarian). i'm actually in the market for one that's in 380. i'd buy it in a heartbeat. again the design philosophy of the Makarov is different from say a beretta 92.

dude i don't even live in the city! there's lots of mud and grit around here! LOL

of course i've shot AKs and ARs. yep AKs have lots of slop so are inherently less accurate in the same way that a floating barrel pistol is inherently less accurate than a fixed-barrel blowback, but at the end of the day the AK has more than sufficient combat accuracy. the shooter's training and tactics will play a bigger role.

as i've said the AK isn't really the BEST. it's simply the best for its design criteria: reliability, durability, ease of manufacture, and cost. period, hehe.

[frenchtower]

To pick which is a better firearm based on who makes them is very subjective. There will be no clear winner here. As a gun owner, I too can't decide which one is a better fit for me. So I ended up being a collector and enjoy the best traits of each of those that I currently own. Personally, I shoot well in both AK and M16 variant. I find the AK more of a utilitarian weapon like Glock. M16 is a weapon you want to pick when you want to hit a target with less round count (read:more maintenance care). In real life use, assuming you have trained well on either of the two, your best bet will be the first one you can grab and shoot.

[jonski]

GERMANY

[frenchtower]

http://youtu.be/3VRrc2n0NXg

[safeorigin]

Which country produces the better gun is very difficult to ascertain. It largely depends on which factory made the gun and on what tolerances and requirements they are produced for. Military rifles are inherently less "accurate" than commercial versions that have been optimized for target shooting(thicker barrels). This is because they use "pencil" barrels to save weight and have "milspec" chrome lining to improve barrel life(which affect accuracy).

The AKM-47 "Type 3" (Not AK-47) no longer represents Russian rifles. They are, however, very numerous because they are easily manufactured. Their current rifles are from the AK-100 family which are within the M4A1 milspec accuracy of 1.5-2.5 MOA(Minute of Angle - which is the measure of inches on the maximum spread of firing groups at 100 yards). The 7.62x39 cartridge has been largely replaced by the 5.45x39 round, particularly the 7n6 variant which is said to be on par with 5.56x45 NATO Mk 318 Mod 0; these are called Intermediate Rounds and the rifles are called "Carbines" (referring to typical carbine barrel length of 12-16 inches).




Further, I would like to dispel the myth that the "AK" is inaccurate. It is, in fact, accurate enough for a man sized target at its intended range of 300 meters and less (which is typical engagement range for the common soldier and the same effective range of the 5.56x45 round). The problem why the "AK" is inaccurate is because of the person behind the gun and his level of training i.e. does he know about holdovers and how to adjust the sight to compensate for bullet drop?

If you want to engage enemies beyond 300 yards up to 600, you generally want either a Battle Rifle Rounds such as the 7.62x51 NATO and 7.62x54R. Do not, however, mistake the rifles that use these rounds as "sniper" rifles. Instead, they are employed for Designated Marksman Role (DMR) which have an MOA of 1.5-2.5. These rifles typically have a barrel length of 16-22 inches and are, of course, heavier than Carbines. Examples would be the FN FAL, H&K G3, AR-10, SVD-63, PSL.

So in conclusion, if you want the best of both worlds, get a SG 550

[frenchtower]

My heart beats for a Sig 556xi
http://youtu.be/fYhJfD-WHOk

[safeorigin]

^I dunno, I kinda miss the longer piston tube of the SG550. What makes me drool, however, is Marc Krebs' AK-15...