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  1. Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    40
    #1
    Ever since the first PMS of my Tucson, I have been forced by my Hyundai service center to use their HGMO oil. It is a crappy policy by all means. I've had a number of problems - and complaints to Hyundai - including terrible fuel economy (5.3k/L) and very loud valve tappeting sounds on cold starts all pointing to poor or incorrect oil in my engine. Hyundai has refused to allow me to bring my own oil. Unfortunately for me, I think my engine has already been damaged by the wrong spec HGMO oil that Hyundai has been forcing down our throats.

    Before I go into the rest of my ranting, some motor oil 101 lang muna -

    Let's talk about SAE ratings (those xW-xx numbers you see on oil gallons).

    First, let's discuss the first half of the SAE rating (e.g. the "5" in "5W-30")

    Most engine wear happens at cold start. My best guess - 80-90% of all engine wear happens during cold start and this is when a good oil matters most. (For a non-racing engine at least) Why? Because the oil was cold and too thick/viscous to properly lubricate the engine so you've got some metal to metal grinding for the first few minutes when you cold start the engine. Now note that there is currently NO MOTOR OIL ON THE PLANET that can properly lubricate your engine BOTH at cold start and operating temperature. All oil we have is too thick at cold start and becomes the right viscosity upon reaching operating temperature. The best we could do today is to pick the oil with the lowest cold temperature viscosity available.

    Theta II case in point: the owner's manual specifies any of 10W-30 or 5W-30 or 5W-20 for environments within the temperature range of -15C to 50C and 5W30 or 5W-20 for environments of -30C to 50C. In Philippine terms - Don't put anything rated above 10W in you Tuc. If you find a Tucson in Alaksa, it should have nothing more than a 5W oil in it. If you put 15W in the Tucson, you will wear out the engine 3x faster than typical. Imagine what a 20W would do, dead engine in 3 years. The lower the cold temperature grade of the oil, the better. If you can find a 5W - use that, if you can find a 0W - it will lubricate even better at cold start.

    So we know a thinner oil at cold start is better on wear and tear prevention; but are there negative side-effects in using 0W in newer engines (including Theta II)? Short answer - No, I don't think so at least. The usual argument is the thinner oil will leak - and it has been claimed that the thinner oil seeps through the oil drain plug or other seals. This is usually observed in smaller talyers and older cars. Why? Because some smaller talyers don't bother replacing the oil plug gasket, which you should do at every oil change. Or their seals are old, cracked and actually have leaks that were previously undetected with the thicker oil. In theory however, none of these cases, seem to be valid discussion. Remember, we're taking about cold temperature viscosity (the "5" in 5W-30) - where the oil is supposed to be much much thicker than in the operating temperature. If your seals and gaskets are installed and maintained properly, "seeping" should simply just not happen. By design also, the oil plug thread on newer cars is finer than you would find on older cars. Cars rated for 5W are engineered to be able to handle 0W as well. This is supported by looking through the oil manufacturer's product sheets, you will find that a 0W-20 oil is a suitable upgrade for vehicles rated for 5W-20, likewise a 0W-30 is a suitable upgrade to a 5W-30.

    Now to the second part of the SAE rating -

    The second half of the SAE rating (e.g. the "30" in 5W-30) indicates the viscosity of the oil at OPERATING temperature (which is 212F); NOT environmental temperature. Our engine's normal OPERATING temperature shouldn't be much hotter or colder than designed and rated regardless whether you're in Alaska or the Sahara desert. If it does run hotter than design, then your cooling system may have a problem and that would need to be fixed. The environment's temperature DOES NOT MATTER once the engine is up to operating temperature. (unless of course you're cooling system can't handle the heat and in which case you shouldn't be running your car regardless of the oil inside OR you've found an environment that exceeds 212F (100C) - Mars or Mercury maybe?)

    Simply said - Putting a grade 40 oil into an engine designed to use grade 30 oil just because we live in a tropical environment is NOT A VALID ARGUMENT today. It is thinking that works only for air cooled engines; the last of which were built in the 90's.

    So the manual's specification says to use either 10W-30 / 5W-30 / 5W-20, do I put in a grade 30 or grade 20 motor oil? Simple rule, the thinner oil would be better for relaxed everyday driving. It flows easier inside the engine. More flow means it is able to take away heat from the hot parts (pistons and cylinders) several times better than a thicker oil would (Note that while the engine may operate at, say, 212F other parts inside can be much much hotter). A cooler engine is a better protected engine. Also, as the oil flows easier, pistons, cams and everything inside waste less energy pushing that oil around; and you get better fuel economy. For a relatively new (less than 2-3yrs) relaxed daily driven vehicle, by all means put in the thinnest oil the manual and common sense allows - that's 0W-20 for the Tucson.

    So when's should we use the thicker oil range in the owner's manuals? The grade 20 oil could become too thin if we RUN IT HOTTER THAN NORMAL operating temperature. This could happen in two situations:
    1) You have an older car (4/5yrs+). Sludge buildup, wear and tear, an old cooling system means it's running hotter than when it was new. Use grade 30.
    2) You put pedal to the metal for extended runs (exceeding 2 mins at a time). BTW, only place I could do this is at SCTEX.

    Just thinking back to the cold start viscosity - other parts outside the engine block will also benefit from thinner oil - the starter motor will crank the engine easier and thus last longer. It used up less electric current starting the car so the battery should last very slightly longer too.

    The Theta II engine is a modern one with very tight tolerances requiring a thinner oil compared to engines designed 10-15 years ago. Those tighter tolerances are the reason why the Hyundai vehicle manual specifies either a grade 30 or grade 20 oil for the Theta II. In fact, it recommends a grade 20 oil for better fuel economy as long as you can find an API service SM or SL one. A thicker oil (i.e. 10W-40) will be challenged to flow into those tight fitting parts of a Theta II to provide sufficient lubrication and will wear out the parts sooner or worse, damage the engine.

    So, let's just summarize:
    New relaxed city driven Tucson Theta II: 10W-20 / 5W-20 / 0W-20
    Extended pedal-to-the-metal and older Tucsons Theta IIs 10W-30 / 5W-30 / 0W-30

    Now to my rants:

    Just a case in point, another manufacturer makes engines of such tight tolerances like the Theta II - that's Honda. However, the local Honda dealers service their customer's vehicles with the right "thinner" oil. For HARI, however, I'm not so sure whether they are "misinformed" or intentionally putting in wrong spec motor oil into our Theta IIs. After all, the faster our engines wear out, the faster we will need to visit their service centers and do costly repairs. In the end, this HGMO policy is a terrible money making scheme. Did HARI mandate HGMO just to boost oil sales as another source of revenue (with the wrong spec just as a logistical or technical error) or are the intentionally putting in 10W-40 in a 10W-30 rated engine to wear out our parts sooner. In either case it is to our, their customers, detriment.

    An unfortunate reality is that I even have a friend who got recommended the 15W-50 HGMO oil into his Tuc because walang stock daw yun 10W-40 and ipinilit pa ng casa na "ayos lang naman daw ito" at "standardized na sa HGMO lahat" kaya daw di puede magdala ng sariling langis. How many of us even bother to ask what SAE rating oil would they put in our cars? All the SA would ask is "Sir, Semi or Fully Synthetic ang lalagay natin?" They usually won't bother telling you - "ay 15W-50 lang available - at yun ang ilalagay namin". I wonder how many Tucs out there are running on 15W-50 oil from the casa? Are you unsure what grade oil is in your ride? From my experience you can probably tell by listening to the engine's grunt. My Tucs running the 10W-40 HGMO today and it has a deeper grunt compared to another running Tuc with a 5W-30. The one running on 5W-30 had a slightly higher pitched sound at 4k rpm. If you've heard a CR-V's engine at 4k, it would be closer to that.

    I have a Tucson, my dad has an Elantra and I'm considering buying the new Santa Fe next year. As much as I enjoy the Hyundai vehicles, if the service policies of HARI continue to be like this with unreasonable and incorrect mandates "else they'll void our warranty", I might turn my head towards the Honda or Toyota equivalent. Parang damned if you do, damned if you don't.

    I'd actually hope a HARI executive replies to this thread. I hope HARI can answer the question of why we cannot have a choice on something as trivial as engine oil? Why are we forced to use oil from an unknown manufacturer of a quality, for all we know, could be sub-standard. At the very least HARI should present to us who's the 3rd party manufacturer of this oil and let us choose our own quality oil.



    Just a disclaimer: my discussion in here should not taken as facts or recommendations for your cars (even other Theta IIs). Do the research for your vehicles and find what's best for you.

  2. Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    40
    #2
    Just posting lang din my source for the 101:
    Motor Oil 101 - Bob is the Oil Guy

    Baka ma-Tito-Sotto ako e. :D

    Would appreciate comments and corrections in case I missed a mark on anything I wrote.

  3. Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    933
    #3
    Just to add up, wala bang government law regardng this kind of practice? Nakabili ako ng brand new cbr dati at nakalagay sa manual ay "Recommended and Honda Oil," ngayon recommended is different from required right? Balak ko rin kasi bumili ng Kia or Hyundai next year and I'm considering buying from other importers, seems like they have a better deal with it comes to their warranty policies. Damm, we live in a democratic country and what they're doing is just soooo non-democratic!

  4. Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    22,710
    #4
    Recommended is, indeed, different from required. If you use an oil other than recommended, there is absolutely no problem.

    They might deny warranty on engine problems, but then, you're free to do what you want.

    HARI may have their own recommendations or practices based on local testing, but if the dealership insists on using completely out-of-spec oil like 15w50 on a motor not designed for it, then there clearly is a problem with the dealership.

    Ang pagbalik ng comeback...

  5. Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    933
    #5
    So ibig sabihin pag ang nakalagay sa manual ay "recommended oil is XXXX" ay illegal ang ginawa ng mga car dealers kung iinsist nila na dapat yung oil lang nila ang bilhin. Noong nagpa-PMS kasi ako sa cbr ko yan din ang banat sa akin pero pinakita ko yung manual na "recommended" and nakasulat dahil nung una ayaw galawin ng mekaniko yung mc ko dahil may dala akong sariling oil. Hinanap ko yung manager nila at nanghihingi ako ng policy nila na black and white wala naman silang maipakita sa akin.

    So, ano ba talaga ang totoo sa ginagawa nilang kalokohan? Kasi ako ayoko talaga ng oils na galing sa car dealers dahil mas gusto ko ng better and quality oils. Pwede ba talaga ma-void yung warranty ng car kung sakaling sariling oil ang dalhin? Or this is just their marketing BS para hawak nila sa leeg mga clients nila for 5 years???

  6. Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    40
    #6
    the day my 5 years is over, it's good bye casa!

  7. Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Posts
    9,394
    #7
    Quote Originally Posted by micodee07 View Post
    the day my 5 years is over, it's good bye casa!
    Ang laki na kinita ng casa after 5years of service

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2

  8. Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,170
    #8
    Epson/ HP/ Canon/ Brother lang pala ang peg ng HARI/ Hyundai?

    Benta ng mura ang printer, pero tagain ka naman sa presyo ng consumables/ ink.

  9. Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Posts
    22,710
    #9
    Quote Originally Posted by gearhead000 View Post
    Epson/ HP/ Canon/ Brother lang pala ang peg ng HARI/ Hyundai?

    Benta ng mura ang printer, pero tagain ka naman sa presyo ng consumables/ ink.
    Not really any different from any other dealership network.

    Which is why long warranties aren't worth it.

    Ang pagbalik ng comeback...

  10. Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Posts
    1,170
    #10
    Oo nga, pero what I mean is that marami kumuha ng Hyundai because of value for money (IOW, cheaper than the competition)... pero mukhang binabawi na lang sa ibang paraan, At least sa Toyota alam mo yung pedigree ng oil nila. And like yung 5W-40 fully synth sa casa pwede na pagbigyan ang presyo. P650/qt. as against sa P700++ ng Mobil 1. So far I have good experience naman with this Toyota/Idemitsu FS oil. After going thru RP at Idemitsu 5W-30, balik na muna ako ulit casa oil pero sourced from my suking supplier.

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Motor Oil 101 and how the HGMO policy is not good for Theta II.