Structural strength of City, Civics made in Thailand vs Phils

[niker]

Hi,

A honda insider told me this. I hope someone can confirm or deny it.

He said that honda city and civics made in thailand or used in
US have stronger structures compared to the one manufacured
in the Philippines due to less advanced equipments invested here
which can't fabricate the solid frame or unibody manufactured
in Thailand.

He said the effect is that in the Thailand made City or Civics,
when the car goes turtle, the body is still intact and also
stronger resistance to collision. Whereas honda city and
civics made in philippines have so poor structures
that when the car goes turtle, it goes flat crashing the occupants and
during collisions, it turns into crumpled metal. If this is true,
it means our locally made city and civics are not up to world
standard?

Also he said that all CRVs are made in thailand and they have
strong structures.

When I inquired this with another person. He said there are
two body designs, unibody and frame something.

I'm getting confused. Is the CRV unibody design too like the
city and civic or is the CRV body-on-frame compared to the city
and civic?

When the honda guy said that Thailand made cars are structurally
stronger. Does he mean Thailand Citys and Civics have body-on-frame
while Philippines City and Civic have unibody? Or does he mean
the Philippines version has poorer unibody structure due to cheaper
equipments in manufacturing the "exo-skeleton" of the City and
Civics? He said our locally made Citys and Civics have metal supports
that simply support the roof of the cars while Thailand made
Citys and Civics have solid full body frames from the base to the
rooftop just like the CRVs. As a result. They have solid structural
integrity compared to locally made. What do you think?

Can anyone clarify all this. Thanks.

[number001]

If you are getting the City or Jazz, you wouldn't have to worry bec. they are both CBU from Thailand. That is, if what you just posted is factually correct.

[niker]

If you are getting the City or Jazz, you wouldn't have to worry bec. they are both CBU from Thailand. That is, if what you just posted is factually correct.

Who told me was a Honda Salesperson. I don't know if he got the
info from briefing or just making it up. He said the City is made in
the Phils, not Thailand.. Only the Jazz is made in Thailand.. that
is why it is more expensive than the City because of more
structural strength in the fabrication of the Jazz.

He said that the base of the Jazz to the roof is moulded from
one piece of metal. While in City, the roof is connected to
the base by joint support enough to hold the roof, not one
piece of metal.

Can anyone verify this? Or is the salesman just want to sell
me another CRV and tried to make me avoid the Civic?

If he is telling the truth. This means the Toyota Altis being
made in Thailand is structurally the same as US made versions
compared to the Civic which is not the similar to those
test vehicles used in crash tests? If you recall or see
accidents in TV with crumpled cars where it's like
they are papers crumpled up by hands crushing the occupants.
Try to see if its a City, Civic, Jazz or Altis (if they are not
other models). Because if the honda salesman is right, the Jazz
or Altis can't suffer crumpled up situations during accidents
while the City and Civic can this happened to them.

[coiter]

i've never heard of such a story. i doubt honda will change their quality level or manufacturing processes from country to country. don't believe him. if he insists, get another brand.

[niky]

100% pure BS.

Manufacturing processes are the same, whichever assembly line the car comes off of. It would cost Honda more money, actually, to assemble the car differently in different plants, because that would force them to use different parts.

The only difference between locally built Hondas and foreign built Hondas would be the suppliers used for such items as exhausts, batteries, rubber trim, tires and glass... items needed to keep up the amount of local content required to have the vehicle declared as SKD rather than CBU... but even then, many of these parts are imported and the amount of local involvement is merely in the assembly process.

Which is why some people complain about trim and fitment issues on certain models. The location of the plant matters when you're talking about wiring, rubber trim, panel fitment, etcetera... this is where you see how good an assembly line is.

But it's complete bullsh*t to say that cars are structurally stronger or weaker depending on where they're made. Honda unibodies all come off the same line, for reasons of economy of scale. All we do here is stick everything onto the bodies, doors, front fenders, hood, glass, suspension, engine, etcetera. The unibody itself (ROOF INCLUDED) is imported.

But he's a salesman... if he actually knew anything about structural integrity, he'd be a plant engineer... now, wouldn't he?

------

RE: looking at accidents proves absolutely nothing. Cars are built to withstand a certain amount of stress before crumpling to absorb excessive impact force. Just because the front end of a pickup doesn't crumple in a simple fender bender that wipes out the front-end of a car, it doesn't mean the pickup is safer. It just means that the car was built to absorb the impact force... and most cars are built to absorb more frontal impact force than relatively more utilitarian pick-ups.

[niker]

100% pure BS.

Manufacturing processes are the same, whichever assembly line the car comes off of. It would cost Honda more money, actually, to assemble the car differently in different plants, because that would force them to use different parts.

The only difference between locally built Hondas and foreign built Hondas would be the suppliers used for such items as exhausts, batteries, rubber trim, tires and glass... items needed to keep up the amount of local content required to have the vehicle declared as SKD rather than CBU... but even then, many of these parts are imported and the amount of local involvement is merely in the assembly process.

Which is why some people complain about trim and fitment issues on certain models. The location of the plant matters when you're talking about wiring, rubber trim, panel fitment, etcetera... this is where you see how good an assembly line is.

But it's complete bullsh*t to say that cars are structurally stronger or weaker depending on where they're made. Honda unibodies all come off the same line, for reasons of economy of scale. All we do here is stick everything onto the bodies, doors, front fenders, hood, glass, suspension, engine, etcetera. The unibody itself (ROOF INCLUDED) is imported.

But he's a salesman... if he actually knew anything about structural integrity, he'd be a plant engineer... now, wouldn't he?

Do you have direct evidence of this from honda? The salesman said manufacturing were distributed in many places because Thailand alone can't supply all the unibody around the world. And it would increase costs to import these to phils. So what Honda did daw was set up own plant in the philippines where the unibody were fabricated locally. To lower cost to be competitive with others like Toyota, they were not made from one piece
of metal like in Thailand, but from parts added together. This can be reflected daw in the price of the Jazz which is more expensive than city even though it is smaller because jazz is made in thailand with solid unibody compared to the city poorer body. To produce the same unibody as in thailand, prices of city and civics could have increased more but thanks to cost cutting, they can maintain the prices they have now.

I wonder if the salesman got direct briefing from honda on this or he is just guessing or making this up. Does anyone have direct evidence about this or against it from the honda phils factory itself?

[number001]

The pre-facelifted City (2003-2005) are said to be manufactured in Sta. Rosa. The new facelifted one that came out on Nov. 2005 till presently, is said to be CBU from Thailand.

Let's say the current City is made here. Contrary to disparities in manufacturing methods, costs, etc....Could it be, the Jazz is more expensive because. it is imported and it is taxed or slapped with tariffs?

He said that the base of the Jazz to the roof is moulded from
one piece of metal. While in City, the roof is connected to
the base by joint support enough to hold the roof, not one
piece of metal.

This is not so clear to me.

I have been inside Toyota's plant in Laguna. I have seen Vios(s) and Innova(s) being built from scratch and eventually into finished products. The unibody (the shell) is created by spot-welding different panels of metal together. The roof is welded to both left and right side panels.

Generally, I'm not so sure if the car's roof and its support beams can be stamped as one piece.


Maybe you should ask the salesman to give you a tour of Honda's plant in Sta. Rosa. Or is he a salesman for Toyota, trying to convince you to ditch Honda?

[niker]

The pre-facelifted City (2003-2005) are said to be manufactured in Sta. Rosa. The new facelifted one that came out on Nov. 2005 till presently, is said to be CBU from Thailand.

Let's say the current City is made here. Contrary to disparities in manufacturing methods, costs, etc....Could it be, the Jazz is more expensive because. it is imported and it is taxed or slapped with tariffs?


This is not so clear to me.

I have been inside Toyota's plant in Laguna. I have seen Vios(s) and Innova(s) being built from scratch and eventually into finished products. The unibody (the shell) is created by spot-welding different panels of metal together. The roof is welded to both left and right side panels.

Generally, I'm not so sure if the car's roof and its support beams can be stamped as one piece.


Maybe you should ask the salesman to give you a tour of Honda's plant in Sta. Rosa. Or is he a salesman for Toyota, trying to convince you to ditch Honda?

The Honda salesman said that in Thailand, they put a raw metal cube into a super machine. Then out came the shell (including roof) in one piece.. that is... there is no spot-welding different panels of metal together... but all coming right out of the fabrication oven. He said in phils.. it's low tech where things have to spot welded.

Hmm.. I don't know if he has big imagination or he heard it elsewhere. He loves honda and said toyota cars have bad fuel consumption and their engines are the same back ages ago.

[number001]

^Everything comes out of the dying machine as one ? and all they have to do is screw the doors and viola ! ? Sorry to say, but that is probably the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

A die stamping machine is really big. They feed it with sheets of metal and it outputs the ready body panels. Even panels like the hood, trunk, doors, etc...are made of at least to pieces of stamped metal that are "punched" together.

[impulzz]

The Honda salesman said that in Thailand, they put a raw metal cube into a super machine. Then out came the shell (including roof) in one piece.. that is... there is no spot-welding different panels of metal together... but all coming right out of the fabrication oven. He said in phils.. it's low tech where things have to spot welded.

Hmm.. I don't know if he has big imagination or he heard it elsewhere. He loves honda and said toyota cars have bad fuel consumption and their engines are the same back ages ago.

the salesman is pure BS, no car manufacturer will make car using a 3D CNC machine. just watch discovery channel. maraming shows na pinapakita how cars are made... for stamping flat sheets and welding and glueing the panels together.

even the matchbox cars are die-cast.

baka naman napanood ng salesman yung show na "RIDES" hosted by Jason Priestly sa discovery channel, may isang episode dun na they placed a BLOCK OF CLAY sa 3D CNC machine to make a 3D prototype of a concept car, then from that clay model they made changes for the final mold for the PRODUCTION MODEL. still all molds are for stamping out panels from flat sheets.


OT but does anyone know where to get a copy of RIDES, ganda ng mga concept cars and one-offs dun.

[imperialv]

The Honda salesman said that in Thailand, they put a raw metal cube into a super machine. Then out came the shell (including roof) in one piece.. that is... there is no spot-welding different panels of metal together... but all coming right out of the fabrication oven. He said in phils.. it's low tech where things have to spot welded.

Hmm.. I don't know if he has big imagination or he heard it elsewhere. He loves honda and said toyota cars have bad fuel consumption and their engines are the same back ages ago.

*niker... don't believe what he said.. total salestalk..

[niky]

There are no differences in assembly practices. The guy just doesn't understand them.

[mazingerZ]

Bro,

Piece of advice, wag mo na lang paniwalaan ang ahenteng yan. Pareho lang kayong malilito. He is just digging a deeper hole for himself by telling things which he cannot understand. "A little learning is a dangerous thing" - to paraphrase my 2nd year high school science teacher.

[suysuy]

hehe. basta city namin is thailand. thats what the dealer said to me nung bumili kami nang city 2006. ngayon daw eh philippines nadaw pati nga raw din ang jazz pinas nadaw.

yung CRV ba natin is europe? i mean yung R-series ang engine?

[azzid]

Quality control medyo nagbabago in every car plant. Pero structural integrity? It would cost a car manufacturer millions if they would change the whole car structure. Kaya nga nagkaroon ng platform sharing with different vehicles to save millions from manufacturing cost tapos babaguhin nila ang manufacturing process just because the plant is based here in the phillipines? Oh c'mon one of the biggest BS stories from a car agent i've ever heard.

[number001]

hehe. basta city namin is thailand. thats what the dealer said to me nung bumili kami nang city 2006. ngayon daw eh philippines nadaw pati nga raw din ang jazz pinas nadaw.

I also heard that after the its make-over last Nov. 2005, City(s) were CBU from Thailand and that before this makeover, City(s) were made in Sta. Rosa since 2003. But I just asked a SA from Honda Global City yesterday and he says City and Civic are being built in Sta. Rosa.

yung CRV ba natin is europe? i mean yung R-series ang engine?

[/QUOTE]

The 2007 CRV (with the 2.0 li R20A1 engine and 2.4li K24A engine) are all CBU from Thailand.