Why the pushrods (still)?

**OTEP** · June 15th, 2005 11:19 PM

As with mbt's response, pushrods still work better in some applications. Sort of like non-CRDi engines being better than CRDi's in some situations.

Na-explain na ito sa isang technical column sa Car and Driver dati. Hindi ko lang maalala exactly why pushrods are not going to go away anytime soon.

**squala** · August 17th, 2005 03:37 AM

True, pushrods work. So do carburetors, fluid shocks, push-button gearboxes, etc., but there's already better technology than those.

I also don't believe BMW will spend so much for research on the M5 and M6 5-liter DOHC engine only to come up with a similar 500 hp output to the Z06's 7-liter pushrod. There are certainly many advantages to all this.

**mazdamazda** · August 17th, 2005 08:59 AM

Originally Posted by squala

I also don't believe BMW will spend so much for research on the M5 and M6 5-liter DOHC engine only to come up with a similar 500 hp output to the Z06's 7-liter pushrod. There are certainly many advantages to all this.

To note... the Z06 is cheaper by $15K than the M5.

**empy** · August 17th, 2005 09:35 AM

Originally Posted by mazdamazda

To note... the Z06 is cheaper by $15K than the M5.

because they don't bother with the r&d, hehe...they just make a bigger mold for the block

**niky** · August 17th, 2005 03:28 PM

Originally Posted by squala

I'm kinda wondering why Chevy went back to pushrods when they have already built a DOHC layout in the ZR-1. True, they may have spent a lot in research and design for the engine (reflected on the hefty ZR-1 premium over the pushrod model), but shouldn't they have just developed that further for the current car?

The engine was too big for the new chassis, it was too expensive, and just too well-engineered.

I don't agree completely on the cost of DOHC, though... BMW is a prestige brand... if Honda were making that car, it'd cost maybe $70,000, not over $100,000... but then, their 300hp NSX is about that expensive already.

Americans are very fond of the "don't fix it if it ain't broke" variety of thinking in automotive engineering... hence beam axles, leaf springs, pushrods, ancient HUGE engines producing much less hp/liter than the engines in our japanese compacts... and this is just their sports cars!

Much as I applaud their ability to make old tech last long, there ought to be a limit... I mean, even the Japanese are doing it now... Beam axles are coming back to our cars (*sob*), engines are getting bigger... (2.4-2.5 liters for performance sports compacts? sacrilege!)... Honda's gone almost all-SOHC (better packaging, supposedly)... I won't be surprised if the next Jazz/Fit or Toyota Echo comes with new-age leaf-springs to save even more space... just think about it... they'll call it a "shape-memory alloy flexible horizontal suspension member"...

**squala** · August 19th, 2005 02:40 AM

Originally Posted by mazdamazda

To note... the Z06 is cheaper by $15K than the M5.

That premium goes to refinement, much more creature comforts and overall sophistication. The Z06 is simply a supercar that's made from the cheapest stuff on earth. It's got crude 60s technology with suspension laughed at by the Top Gear guys. The standard Vette produced a fast but messy lap on their track, and I doubt it if the more powerful version is any neater. The M5 should be much more agile.

**mazdamazda** · August 19th, 2005 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by squala

That premium goes to refinement, much more creature comforts and overall sophistication. The Z06 is simply a supercar that's made from the cheapest stuff on earth. It's got crude 60s technology with suspension laughed at by the Top Gear guys. The standard Vette produced a fast but messy lap on their track, and I doubt it if the more powerful version is any neater. The M5 should be much more agile.

But it still got the job done right?

Chevy Corvette - currently 15th place

BMW M3 CSL - currently 19th place

**empy** · August 19th, 2005 03:32 AM

Originally Posted by mazdamazda

But it still got the job done right?

Chevy Corvette - currently 15th place

BMW M3 CSL - currently 19th place

yep. some people (and it seems like most of them live in america) just want relatively cheap speed. it's why the camaro and mustang have sold so well for so long.

i realize it's unfair to put the corvette in that group, because the vette is an excellent all-around performer, but it's built on the same concept. some people just need to be open-minded that there is more than one way to get high performance

**squala** · August 20th, 2005 02:47 AM

The previous-model Mustang's pushrod V8s have been replaced by SOHC (GT) and DOHC (Cobra) units in 1995. The new engines were much more refined, and even if the still pushrod Camaro and its Firebird twin were more powerful, more buyers still got the Mustang. It's a far better everyday car. Those GM duos are simply cheap performance, at the expense of quality, comfort, etc.

At the strip or track, they can get the job done as well, faster than the Mustang, but which pony car is left standing?

**speedy** · August 20th, 2005 05:20 AM

Originally Posted by squala

That premium goes to refinement, much more creature comforts and overall sophistication. The Z06 is simply a supercar that's made from the cheapest stuff on earth. It's got crude 60s technology with suspension laughed at by the Top Gear guys. The standard Vette produced a fast but messy lap on their track, and I doubt it if the more powerful version is any neater. The M5 should be much more agile.

Yeah but the M5 apparently broke! " A bit fragile " were the words used to describe the M5. Nonetheless, its still a hell of a car!