[Help] Getting more confused ...

[h12]

Hi everyone! I've been reading the boards for more than a month and have finally decided to ask for your help in deciding which car to buy. This might be a bit long, sorry :P

Here are points for consideration:
1. Quality - No need to consider resale value, but need to consider maintenance cost
2. new-Lady driver (owner) - But will also be used by my parents
3. Conservative driving - Is ABS a must?
3. Sub-compact - Sedan
4. A/T - (are there differences in A/T of different cars? does it matter?)
5. Mostly city-driving with weekly Pampanga trips
6. Passes flood-prone areas during rainy seasons (should I opt for bigger wheels, 15" against 14"?)
7. Max 850T including insurance, LTO, etc.
8. Fuel efficiency (SOHC vs DOHC? Does this affect FC?)
9. Does having sold discs in rear breakes important?
10. Easy handling (Is the suspension better in Mazda/Ford better than Toyota?)

Some info:
1. Previous vehicle: Honda CR-V (1999) So we're used to SUVs
2. Not too knowledgeable about cars (consider "known" brands?)
3. Test drove 1.6G Altis but didn't like the woodgrain, found 1.6E lacking in specs for the price tag
4. Test drove the mazda 3.0, found suspension better than altis

What we are currently considering (car price with discounts):
1. Mazda 3.0 (1.6S or V) ~722000 and 759000
(worried about the FC and maitenance cost, not too keen on the "dark" interior, and how will I know if its a 2007 or 2006 model? What does "activematic" mean?)
2. Ford Trend (1.6) ~ 819,000
(didn't like the "look" of the trend)
3. Mitsubishi (GLS/MX) ~ 723000 and 798,000
(is this a lemon car? what's INVECS3)
4. Toyota Altis 1.6E ~776000
(a bit expensive compared to Mazda 1.6S)

Final question, which month/time is it best to buy cars?
Should the dealer matter?
What should/can I demand from the S/A as "Plus" for my purchase?


Sorry for the long post. Any comments will be appreciated
Thank you very much!!!

[oldblue]

get a civic ma'm hehehe.

[Jun aka Pekto]

Flood-prone areas? Definitely an SUV, not a car.

[funnycar pilot]

Just a little input from across the water . I am not sure on all the different models of cars you have there but here a Toyata is a good purchase . The Toyota Camry is one of the best selling cars here . It's considered one of the safest and great full economy with some nice comforts and a smooth ride . I hope this helps . Toyota has had a great success here with it's cars and trucks .:usa:

[Si 06]

Just a little input from across the water . I am not sure on all the different models of cars you have there but here a Toyata is a good purchase . The Toyota Camry is one of the best selling cars here . It's considered one of the safest and great full economy with some nice comforts and a smooth ride . I hope this helps . Toyota has had a great success here with it's cars and trucks .:usa:

SUV's and Pick ups Toyota, cars Honda

[niky]

Firstly, none of the cars you are looking at will be good at fording floods. The Mazda3 has the highest air intake of the lot, but it's still not a good "flood car". Best bet is: if the flood is bumper level, don't attempt to cross it. Even with a high intake, bow waves in front of the car and from passing trucks can push water up into the intake.

SOHC versus DOHC has less of an effect than the inherent efficiency of the engine itself and the efficiency of the transmission.

If you're considering an A/T car, I'd put the Honda Civic at the top of the list. Comfort-wise, the Mazda3 is also up there.

Rear disc brakes and ABS. No, it's not very important if you drive conservatively. In fact, the rear brakes have very little effect on braking power, overall. But ABS is helpful in the rain, as it'll help prevent spins and slides when you turn and brake at the same time. But if an accident happens too quickly for you to swerve out of the way, ABS won't help you stop any faster.

The Choices:

If handling is what you're after, the Mazda3 is the best of the lot. Very good steering, good brakes and terrific handling. Great interior, too. Only minus is a slow AT, but it's better than the same transmission in the Focus. Because of the good looks, the resale value of the Mazda3 is actually decent, too. It may be older than the Civic, but it still looks great inside and out. So far, there are no major headaches reported by Mazda3 owners.

The Civic's steering is a bit too light, and the shocks are kind of soft and floaty. The tires are likewise pretty uninspiring. Also, if you're not used to it, you might not like the fact that you can't see the hood of the car. Despite this, it's still better than the Altis, and more comfortable than most cars, and seat space is great. The engine is very good, and as efficient as the 1.6s, even if it's a 1.8 (expect 8 km/l in traffic with an AT). There are some niggling trim issues with the Civic, but as long as you pre-inspect the unit you buy, there should be no problems. This is a safe choice.

The Focus has the most sophisticated suspension of the group, better than the Civic's. Handling isn't as sharp as the Mazda, but it's still very good, and the car feels as solid as a rock... or a Mercedes. The Trend has cheap plastic, an average back seat, and a slow AT. BUT, this is the only car for the price which offers rear airconditioning, and the sound insulation is as good as expensive European cars. Despite the plastic, it really feels like an expensive car inside. If you can learn to drive an MT, this would be a good choice, and your parents would love the comfort.

The Corolla is the boring choice, but it's a practical car, easy to drive and with no major headaches. Suspension is a bit bouncy, and sound insulation isn't as good as the newer cars. Nice big rear seat, but that's all.

The Lancer offers lots for the money, but it's small compared to the newer cars, and the running gear is kind of ancient.

[claRkEnt]

get a civic ma'm hehehe.

agree on this... civics are "lady-driver friendly".

but then again, please define clearly what "type"of flood? but since you have mentioned that you are inclined towards sedan, i guess the it meant the normal ones which could be handled by sedans.

[niky]

Regarding "flood ability": Best you go to each casa and ask to see the engine bays of the cars in question.

I'm foggy on what I saw when I checked out the Honda Civic 1.8 (I was only looking at the engine, not the air intake), but I'm pretty sure the air intake duct is headlight level.

Old Lancer air intakes are bumper level, but the new one might be different.

The Mazda3 has a relatively high air intake, hood level, I think.

The Ford Focus... not sure... but the Lynx had a hood level intake, I think the Focus might be similar.

----

Rule of thumb: wherever the tube of your intake is, you shouldn't cross floods where the intake is only a few inches higher than the flood, because bow waves from the car or from passing trucks may submerge it.

Like I've said before... if you're not using a snorkel equipped vehicle... if the water's touching the body, don't risk it. It's painful having a car dried out after a flood... it's even more painful repairing an engine that's been hydrolocked.

[an0nim0us]

here's my take:

Here are points for consideration:
1. Quality - No need to consider resale value, but need to consider maintenance cost

- maintenance cost - Toyota Altis of course, the resale value is a bonus, that is, if you dont mind buying now as the new model is about to be released. Better wait for the next gen.

2. new-Lady driver (owner) - But will also be used by my parents

- I think most cars will be ok for a lady driver.

3. Conservative driving - Is ABS a must?

- ABS is a must for safety.

3. Sub-compact - Sedan

- Vios or Jazz,

The CIvic, ALtis, Mazda3 are all compact sedans.

4. A/T - (are there differences in A/T of different cars? does it matter?)

- A/T is perfect especially for city driving. in my experience, Toyota's A/T is still the best.

5. Mostly city-driving with weekly Pampanga trips

- A/T then!

6. Passes flood-prone areas during rainy seasons (should I opt for bigger wheels, 15" against 14"?)

- consider MPV or SUV na lang.

7. Max 850T including insurance, LTO, etc.

- now I'm confused too! hehe

8. Fuel efficiency (SOHC vs DOHC? Does this affect FC?)

- no

9. Does having sold discs in rear breakes important?

- no,

10. Easy handling (Is the suspension better in Mazda/Ford better than Toyota?)

- or do you mean easy to drive? Altis is easy to drive, Mazda 3 has nice handling.

[kimpOy]

uy kapampangan..taga nokarin ka?

forget about fording flood waters on a sedan...
get the 1.8 civic AT...yung pearl white...

[kmo]

why dont you streth your budget a bit and get the new civic 1.8S at? i think this is one of the better buys in the market today but if these are the only choices, il go for the mazda 3 ... although the altis is really a very reliable car ...and if floods ang paguusapan ... i have one, umabot dati sa headlights yung baha yet the car still runs ... pero natakot na ako after hehehe but it didnt disappoint me ... and upto now running very well

[h12]

Hi everyone! thanks for all your input

A friend of mine also suggested the Civic so I did check it out.
Sad to say, I didn't like the looks and the fact that (as niky said) I can't see the hood. My dad went to the dealer and checked it out too and had the same reaction. So I think Civic is probably out. ( I wish they had the previous design )

As for the "flood-prone" areas, maybe around 3-6 inch floods, not "malabon-type" floods. Sorry for the confusion :P
We are kind of inclined towards a sedan instead of an SUV ... and I think our budget might not be enough for a good SUV? And also, don't SUV's consume more fuel?

By the way, stupid question coming (sorry )... what do you mean by the "air intake"? Is that the tube sticking out of a car? So the higher the tube the better? If your tube is a bit low, is there someway to make it "higher"?

I think we're probably down to Altis 1.6E, Mazda 1.6S, Mazda 1.6V and Ford Focus Trend 1.6. So if it's value for money, what would you guys choose?

BTW, niky, you said if its a M/T I should go for the Ford. Isn't its A/T version ok?


I really really appreciate all your answers. Thank you very much

[oldblue]

yan ang in thing ngaun, you can't see the hood. even future concepts will be like that.

long hoods are as old as boxy suv's

[OTEP]

what do you mean by the "air intake"?

The car runs by combining air and fuel. The air intake is where air enters. Usually this is also under the hood. Just look for the air filter housing and you've found the air intake. Some air intakes have plastic tubes that snake it's way away from the air filter housing [aka the airbox]. Just find where it actually sucks in air to know how high off the ground the intake point is. On most cars it is at headlamp level.

Some SUV's better this by placing the intake near the back part of the engine compartment. So in the unfortunate case that you do submerge the whole face of the vehicle, you are still less likely to suck in water. When water enters the air intake and the engine, get ready to buy a new engine.

Among your choices, the Lancer is inexpensive because the platform has been in existence for quite a while already. Bawi na ang puhunan nila diyan. Plus the fact that the Lancer is one of the more underrated players in the segment. The vehicle itself is ok and will get the job done. But it doesn't have much flair or style to it.

The Mazda3 and Focus are kissing cousins. They also share the same platform with the Volvo S40. Same bones, different clothes.

The Toyota is also an old platform. But since its a Toyota, people will pay anything for it. It banks on core values like reliability and resale value. But considering how much better the competition is getting, I'm willing to gamble on other brands that offer more bang for less buck.

3. ABS is not needed for conservative driving. But you will need it for emergencies and you will thank yourself that you actually invested in it. However, ABS is not idiot proof also. Just as in a non-ABS vehicle, you also need to know how to maximize ABS. Some people just stomp their brakes. The objective of ABS is not to stop short of the obstacle but to be able to brake AND steer around the obstacle at the same time. The 'steering' part is what you usually lose in a non-ABS vehicle because skidding tires will not steer the vehicle. A lot of people in ABS equipped vehicles still forget to steer and still end up crashing [negating the advantages of ABS].

8. Nope. Engines of roughly the same displacement and carrying the same weight will usually have similar fuel economy figures. A little more or a little less but nothing drastic. It's your right foot that will be the determining factor.

9. Discs are less prone to fade during spirited driving. But drum brakes will work for most day to day commuting type driving. I'd rather have a disc-drum vehicle with ABS rather than an all disc vehicle without ABS.

10. Most modern vehicles are easy enough to handle.

[wildthing]

of your choices, I'll go for the Altis...for the resale value - I am quite positive that among the choices you have, the Altis will still command a high resale value when you want to sell it na.

base on porma, I'll pick the mazda3 hatch....but if i buy this, I probably won't sell it in the future....IMO medyo classic design nito that it would still be a maporma car para "bastusin" in the future - palitan engine and stuff like the honda hatch or the starlet of older times.

but that is just me.

[niky]

Amongst your short-listed cars, the best value for your money is the Mazda3 1.6. It's a bit slower than the Corolla, but driven conservatively, fuel consumption is okay. Plus the interior is very special. My cousin has had the 1.6V for two years, already, and his interior is still fresh, and he's still very much enamored of the car.

The Corolla is okay, and it has a very efficient AT, but it doesn't feel nearly as special as either the Mazda3 or the Focus... and if someone brings up "resale value", the Mazda3's looks have kept its resale value respectable.

And, like OTEP and I (amongst others) like to point out... you don't buy a car as an investment. The moment you pay for the car, you're losing money anyway. That few thousand pesos in resale value you lose after five years have paid for the extra luxury and ownership priveleges of buying a better riding, handling and looking car.

The Focus is a very heavy car (that's what makes it feel as solid as a Mercedes), and even though it shares mechanical parts with the Mazda 1.6, the programming of the AT is sluggish in comparison. With a manual transmission, you'll get decent fuel economy and performance... I suggest, though, that you test drive it (there's a Ford test drive at Fort Bonifacio for Ford day... bring your parents along) to see if you can handle the clutch and stick. I find it easy to use, but some find the clutch too light.



-----

Take note: None of these are bad cars, not even the Corolla (it's just old). It's really just a personal choice on what you like and what you can live with. Keep visiting dealerships and looking at the cars, and try to wrangle test-drives from the dealers. Good luck!

[1D4LV]

among your new choices, my first choice would be the focus, the second will be the mazda and the third choice will be the altis. all of them will give you your needs. but of course, if reliability will be your topmost concern, its the altis hands down.

[h12]

Hi everyone!

Thank you very much .. again .. for all your comments and suggestion. I really learned a lot. Feeling may alam na ako ng konti sa kotse
We will .. as niky said .. keep visiting dealerships.

Nakukulitan na yata sa amin .. at naghihintay na ng actual order/purchase
Sa ibang dealership na lang kami titingin. hehehe.

BTW, my parents saw the Focus ... medyo yun na napupusuan dahil nga sa interior (lighter than Mazda3) at mas spacious (compared to Mazda). Di ko pa mapakawalan ang Mazda dahil gusto ko talaga exterior niya eh

One more round of car-shopping at sana maka-decide na kami.
Thanks again :D

[niky]

Kung gusto nga nila yung Focus, remember the Ford day... January 27, Fort Bonifacio (just drive around and look for it... usually between the Shell station and McDo yung set-up ng outdoor tents nila).

I don't know if the Focus will be offered on test, but it's possible.

Happy shopping.

[Horsepower]

If you want something that you can use almost anywhere, get a compact SUV like Hyundai Tucson or KIA Sportage or the full size KIA Sorento.