Diesel Engine vs Gas Engine During Long Periods of Idling...

[attyallanlatras]

I usually see owners/drivers of vans (Hi-Ace, Urvan, Starex, and the like) running their engines with the aircon on for several minutes like for more than 30mins to an hour at the parking area. I know these are diesel engines. But is this okay? What are its adverse effects, if any? Fuel consumption? Is this practice ok because they are vans? what about SUVs doing this, what would be their difference?

How about those cars on gas engines also doing this practice of running their engines with the aircon on for several minutes?

Pls enlighten me on this. I am not doing this to my ride (Fortuner Diesel AT 2016), but still I am curious.

[12vdc]

I usually see owners/drivers of vans (Hi-Ace, Urvan, Starex, and the like) running their engines with the aircon on for several minutes like for more than 30mins to an hour at the parking area. I know these are diesel engines. But is this okay? What are its adverse effects, if any? Fuel consumption? Is this practice ok because they are vans? what about SUVs doing this, what would be their difference?

How about those cars on gas engines also doing this practice of running their engines with the aircon on for several minutes?

Pls enlighten me on this. I am not doing this to my ride (Fortuner Diesel AT 2016), but still I am curious.

There is a great possibility of carbon monoxide poisoning running on stationary confined areas with a gas engine than a diesel.

Diesel engines are thermally efficient running with hot environment, gaso don't like hot environments. Economy-wise torque/power/energy content per unit fuel is for diesel, that is why you don't see an industrial generator or mass transport bus/ trucks with gasoline engine.

I sleep in my diesel van 30mins to 2hrs esp during long drives when i get sleepy or tired. I am still alive and my brain cells are still intact.

[Yatta]

I usually see owners/drivers of vans (Hi-Ace, Urvan, Starex, and the like) running their engines with the aircon on for several minutes like for more than 30mins to an hour at the parking area. I know these are diesel engines. But is this okay? What are its adverse effects, if any? Fuel consumption? Is this practice ok because they are vans? what about SUVs doing this, what would be their difference?

How about those cars on gas engines also doing this practice of running their engines with the aircon on for several minutes?

Pls enlighten me on this. I am not doing this to my ride (Fortuner Diesel AT 2016), but still I am curious.

As long as its parked in an open car parl/space, it should be alright. But its another matter if its idling in say a closed garage/parking building.

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[n_spinner06]

I usually see owners/drivers of vans (Hi-Ace, Urvan, Starex, and the like) running their engines with the aircon on for several minutes like for more than 30mins to an hour at the parking area. I know these are diesel engines. But is this okay? What are its adverse effects, if any? Fuel consumption? Is this practice ok because they are vans? what about SUVs doing this, what would be their difference?

How about those cars on gas engines also doing this practice of running their engines with the aircon on for several minutes?

Pls enlighten me on this. I am not doing this to my ride (Fortuner Diesel AT 2016), but still I am curious.

Sa vans pag may inaantay lang saglit better iwan nakabukas engine kasi mahirap palamigin yung malaking cabin...

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[StockEngine]

the cooling system simply works as well as the ac system. there was a graph before how these works.. its an on and off cycle for these older systems.

newer system employ inverter like characteristic..

[Walter]

Toyota Hiace vans can run for 24 hours straight when they are hired to travel to provinces ... Nissan vans will overheat ...

[dr. d]

I usually see owners/drivers of vans (Hi-Ace, Urvan, Starex, and the like) running their engines with the aircon on for several minutes like for more than 30mins to an hour at the parking area. I know these are diesel engines. But is this okay? What are its adverse effects, if any? Fuel consumption? Is this practice ok because they are vans? what about SUVs doing this, what would be their difference?

How about those cars on gas engines also doing this practice of running their engines with the aircon on for several minutes?

Pls enlighten me on this. I am not doing this to my ride (Fortuner Diesel AT 2016), but still I am curious.

parking administrators prefer the vehicle engines stay off while in the parking area. it makes for cleaner and cooler parking garage air.
only the person inside the vehicle with engine running and aircon cooling, benefits with his cooler situation.

[oj88]

That practice is always detrimental to the engine's health. Long idling creates more carbon build-up, contributes to fuel dilution in oil, increased cylinder wall wear, which then results in more blow-by.

It's especially bad for modern Diesels equipped with DPFs.

As the effects are not immediate, many people see engine idling as harmless. But there's a reason why long idling and/or stop and go traffic, among other things, are considered severe or extreme conditions on almost any vehicle owners manual.

[travajante]

^+1

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[17Sphynx17]

Well, regarding this. I think most cars now have an Auxiliary Fan that deals with cooling the aircon system/compressor, be it gas or diesel I believe (not sure which cars we have here that have an electric compressor though)

So as the cars age, that auxiliary fan will stop working and there will be no warning light.

And with that failure, your aircon system will not work properly as there isn't sufficient airflow to cool the compressor.

So when idling and AC is running, well, you aren't in motion. Tendency is your car won't actually be cooling you in the cabin.

I don't personally like idling my car but there would be instances where it might be unavoidable (with kids or elderly inside the car while waiting for someone to come out of the house or store, etc etc).

Keep it to a minimum I say.

[StockEngine]

That practice is always detrimental to the engine's health. Long idling creates more carbon build-up, contributes to fuel dilution in oil, increased cylinder wall wear, which then results in more blow-by.

It's especially bad for modern Diesels equipped with DPFs.

As the effects are not immediate, many people see engine idling as harmless. But there's a reason why long idling and/or stop and go traffic, among other things, are considered severe or extreme conditions on almost any vehicle owners manual.

carbon buildup where? intake ports?

oil dilution.. only when the owner doesnt change at proper intervals.

cylinder wall damage? related to above but again.. not an issue if owner does proper oci for our hardly moving traffic

[12vdc]

^EGR opens during those idling moments, hence the more exhaust gas passing the intake and the more it makes the oil acidic.

[oj88]

carbon buildup where? intake ports?

oil dilution.. only when the owner doesnt change at proper intervals.

cylinder wall damage? related to above but again.. not an issue if owner does proper oci for our hardly moving traffic

Carbon buildup in the combustion chamber, pistons, valves, and downstream of it to the cat or DPF.

Lookup cylinder wall glazing. Glazing means that the factory crosshatch has been polished off due to the unburned/excess fuel from long idling, washing off the coat of oil off the cylinder wall. Long idling also does not produce enough combustion pressure for the piston rings to seal properly, thus allowing unburned fuel to seep through. The crosshatch is there for oil to stick to, working in conjunction with the piston rings to seal as much of the combustion as possible. With the crosshatch polished off and as it becomes shiny and smooth, oil doesn't cling to it as much and no amount of OCI regimen would fix that. The block is essentially ruined.

As a result of cylinder glazing, more blow-by gasses can get through, accelerating fuel bi-products dilution of the oil, as well as reducing the compression ratio and the overall engine performance.

Increased blow-by will also inject more oil back into the intake via the PCV system. So, going back to your first question, that will definitely be a source of carbon buildup on the intake valves, particularly on DI engines.

[SidCoronel]

I usually see owners/drivers of vans (Hi-Ace, Urvan, Starex, and the like) running their engines with the aircon on for several minutes like for more than 30mins to an hour at the parking area. I know these are diesel engines. But is this okay? What are its adverse effects, if any? .

1) Your ride will be "older" than its mile-age... 800rpm x 30mins = 24,000 revolutions older = engine wear. Same strain on compressor and other rotors

2) Pollution, which a lot of people don't care about as long as they are comfortable in a cold cabin.

[SidCoronel]

I usually see owners/drivers of vans (Hi-Ace, Urvan, Starex, and the like) running their engines with the aircon on for several minutes like for more than 30mins to an hour at the parking area. I know these are diesel engines. But is this okay? What are its adverse effects, if any? Fuel consumption? Is this practice ok because they are vans? what about SUVs doing this, what would be their difference?

How about those cars on gas engines also doing this practice of running their engines with the aircon on for several minutes?

Pls enlighten me on this. I am not doing this to my ride (Fortuner Diesel AT 2016), but still I am curious.

Carbon buildup in the combustion chamber, pistons, valves, and downstream of it to the cat or DPF.

Lookup cylinder wall glazing. Glazing means that the factory crosshatch has been polished off due to the unburned/excess fuel from long idling, washing off the coat of oil off the cylinder wall. Long idling also does not produce enough combustion pressure for the piston rings to seal properly, thus allowing unburned fuel to seep through. The crosshatch is there for oil to stick to, working in conjunction with the piston rings to seal as much of the combustion as possible. With the crosshatch polished off and as it becomes shiny and smooth, oil doesn't cling to it as much and no amount of OCI regimen would fix that. The block is essentially ruined.

As a result of cylinder glazing, more blow-by gasses can get through, accelerating fuel bi-products dilution of the oil, as well as reducing the compression ratio and the overall engine performance.

Increased blow-by will also inject more oil back into the intake via the PCV system. So, going back to your first question, that will definitely be a source of carbon buildup on the intake valves, particularly on DI engines.

Interesting... Do you think the same "glazing" applies to power generators, especially the portable ones?

[SidCoronel]

carbon buildup where? intake ports?

oil dilution.. only when the owner doesnt change at proper intervals.

cylinder wall damage? related to above but again.. not an issue if owner does proper oci for our hardly moving traffic

If the recommended oci of an oil is 10k kms, considering "our hardly moving traffic..." When do you recommend to do the oil change?

[StockEngine]

If the recommended oci of an oil is 10k kms, considering "our hardly moving traffic..." When do you recommend to do the oil change?

every 6mo is good practice. at that time the airfilter and ac filter is probably so dirty already anyways.

[oj88]

Interesting... Do you think the same "glazing" applies to power generators, especially the portable ones?

Short answer is a likely, yes.

Long answer. In the context of emergency power generators, engine wear is kind of a given and is usually sacrificed for instantaneous and unplanned emergency operation. Many of these typically large generators are automated and will start itself upon sensing a power failure and immediately rev-up to a usual 3000 RPM and immediately supply power to its load (used mostly in hotels, malls, hospitals and large commercial establishments), without so much as a 10-second warm-up.

But one factor that affects the cylinders is the loading. Under-loading a genset is as bad as running it at idle for long periods of time. This link suggests that Diesel engines must be loaded at around 60-75% of its total capacity to provide adequate seal on the piston rings and prevent or at least reduce the possibility of glazing.

In other words, don't put a 10kVA genset when a 3 or 5kVA is all you need... UNLESS there's absolute value in having a higher kVA headroom over the life of the genset.

[StockEngine]

Carbon buildup in the combustion chamber, pistons, valves, and downstream of it to the cat or DPF.

Lookup cylinder wall glazing. Glazing means that the factory crosshatch has been polished off due to the unburned/excess fuel from long idling, washing off the coat of oil off the cylinder wall. Long idling also does not produce enough combustion pressure for the piston rings to seal properly, thus allowing unburned fuel to seep through. The crosshatch is there for oil to stick to, working in conjunction with the piston rings to seal as much of the combustion as possible. With the crosshatch polished off and as it becomes shiny and smooth, oil doesn't cling to it as much and no amount of OCI regimen would fix that. The block is essentially ruined.

As a result of cylinder glazing, more blow-by gasses can get through, accelerating fuel bi-products dilution of the oil, as well as reducing the compression ratio and the overall engine performance.

Increased blow-by will also inject more oil back into the intake via the PCV system. So, going back to your first question, that will definitely be a source of carbon buildup on the intake valves, particularly on DI engines.

fuel washing off the oil... this doesnt happen on every car idling though. even it does..only way for ordinary folks is changing the oil 2x a year.

[oj88]

fuel washing off the oil... this doesnt happen on every car idling though. even it does..only way for ordinary folks is changing the oil 2x a year.

It's not as significant when idling for a few minutes. But in the context of the OP's original post, idling for 30 minutes to a few hours everyday, therein, as they say, lies the rub.