fluctuating voltage on a 2010 montero

[altec]

I got a 2010 montero foreclosed from a bank. Patay na ang battery kaya pinalitan ko. After a month of use, I noticed when the idling rpm is at 650 and when revving or when the rpm goes up to 850 when the compressor switches on, lumalakas ang headlight, blower, pati ang dome light sa loob at humihina pag nasa 650rpm. Pinatingin ko sa mitsu casa who connected the battery to a computer/digital battery tester. Wala daw problema ang charging at yung battery. Readings come to high 13 (13.8 or so) to 14. Ginawa na nila ito 6x na. The problem became more of a concern kasi on a few occasions, yung stereo headunit would reboot or trip off and switch back on when I press something: volume, change fm station. Pinatingin ko to several accessory stores and the battery shop where I bought the battery. Using their testers, we noticed the voltage would stay at the 14 level when the rev is high or none of the electrical loads are switched on. Pag binuksan ang headlight (on high beam), fog lights, stereo, (aircon blower without switching on the compressor to avoid the rpm from going up) eto na, slowly bumaba ang volt. I took a picture of the digital voltmeter registering 12.79 after several minutes of watching it go down. Naka timing naman ako may pumasok na 2012 glx montero sa accessory shop. The owner allowed me to check his ride's voltage and switching on the same electrical load, 13.9 yung kanya. Pinakita ko sa service manager ng mitsu casa yung pictures ng voltage readings. But still after 2 days of testing, sabi pa rin niya normal lang daw ito kasi they checked with 5 other monteros in the shop, nagfi-flicker talaga ang headlights ng montero but not on the Stradas.

Sabi ko sa kanya, di yan normal kasi pag na timing ka sa traffic at di naman naka on ang compressor mo sa gabi and the effect is lower rpm, dahan dahan mauubos ang battery ko. But because THEIR computer battery tester said its normal (yung may print out), they cannot make any repairs or warranty claims. I want them to open up the alternator coz 2 other shops (hindi na yung accessory shops na sinabi ko) told me nasa alternator ang problema.

Does anyone have any experience like this or any suggestions? The montero still has around 10 months under warranty to go. 20K mileage, 2010 GLS 4x2 A/T model. Kung hindi pwede iclaim sa warranty o hindi pwede ipaayos sa casa dahil nga sabi nila normal lang yan, ipatrabaho ko na lang kaya sa labas?

Yung accessory shops pala, refuse to install accessories sa montero (wanted to improve the sound system and horn upgrade) kasi nga bumababa ang voltage.

[akosijepoii]

kung alternator prob nyan sir try mu contakin 7824668 kayang kaya yan...

[Retz]

Pa check-up mo muna sa Casa kung under warranty pa.

[miko101130]

I'll try to help you sir...
Dapat pag naka idle ka at walang load ang vehicle, usually 13.5-14.5 ang voltage at the battery...

The minimum voltage at idle speed should be 12.5 volts at the battery... This means that the battery is not discharging and also not charging...
Any drop below this voltage at idle with no load is attributed to alternator problem..

The capacity of your alternator, found on the alternator on a sticker, will determine how many AMPERES it can produce..

Example, an alternator rated at 90 amps, with a 13 nominal voltage will produce 1170 watts.... If your total electrical load reaches more than 1170 watts, then the alternator cannot charge the battery even at full capacity simply because the demand is higher than what can be supplied...

The alternator in your car is designed to provide electricity and still be able to charge the battery even if all your "stock electrical accesories are open"....

If the alternator will drop its voltage even without much load, probably at 50% load only, then the alternator or the PCM is at fault!
That is if the battery are 100% ok and grounding is ok..

Usually the charging inside the alternator is ruled by the diodes, 6 of them, 3 pairs... Then the voltage is controlled by a voltage regulator built inside, so that voltage will not increase above 14 or more even at full speed...

On newly built vehicles, the PCM, powertrain control module, also has the function of controlling the charging of the vehicle...

If the pcm is ok, then it will most likely be the alternator, assuming that the battery is ok and no other electrical issues at hand..

I'll give another example,
On my vehicle, my alternator is rated at 75 amps... Therfore at full capacity my alternator can produce 975 watts if the system demands it... At idle my alternator probably produces 20- 40 amps... Suffecient for normal use with vehicle accesories.
Aircon,headlights,engine...

At idle my voltage reading via a digital volt meter at the battery terminal is at 13.9 volts...
Every electrical load you switch on will lessen that 13.9 volts.

Headlight = 10 amps
Aircon= 10amps
Brake lights=5 amps
Parklight= 5 amps
Stock sounds= 10amps
Abs/ecu/ etc= 20 amps

Total is 60 amps... So there is still a 15 amp reserve still available for other accesories...
Total is 780watts... There is still 195 watts reserve capacity...

My voltage reading at this point will be at 13.1 to 13.2 volts...

If i use my auxilliary lights which consumes 400 watts
I will be at 12.3 volts.. So im discharging... Because im over the capacity ans the battery is supplying the extra power the accesories will use hence it will drop its voltage...

[miked]

Pag binuksan ang headlight (on high beam), fog lights, stereo, (aircon blower without switching on the compressor to avoid the rpm from going up) eto na, slowly bumaba ang volt.

bakit mo iaavoid yung idle up? kaya may idle up para mamaintain yung desired output ng alternator esp. kung A/C na ang nakaandar. pinakamalakas humigop ng current and AC (provided no boom boom sounds and powerful lights)

[miked]

isa pa, ano ang mga previous PMS na ginawa sa sasakyan nyo po bago nangyari ito? kasi baka simpleng maluwag na serpentine belt or some other simple things na hindi masyado napapansin. start with the basics first ika nga.

[miko101130]

one things pala TS... according to your statement, the same electrical load was applied on a similar montero that was also there at the time you are at the accessory shop... your reading with your montero at load is 12.7, while the other montero reads at 13.7... granting everything else equal among your units....

if the vehicle is still under warranty, try to pursue that path...
vehicle headlights should not flicker.... kasi pag nag flicker it signals that there was voltage drop that occured in the electrical line...
pero before you go and isolate the problem on the alternator, be sure that the battery, battery terminals, grounding, are all ok...

try to put the vehicle in high beam and see if the dome lights will dim... or if the gauges will dim/blink then return to normal...

[bambino]

ask mo yung casa kung meron sila ng AUTOMOTIVE LABSCOPE . dito makikita kung meron diode problem ang montero mo.
mode ng scope AC RIPPLE /DIODE TEST . i have seen a lot of these at my shop.

all loads on at idle =13vdc minimum

[altec]

casa service manager said yung ibang montero may flicker ang headlight when other heavy accessories switch on. I have my doubts about that kasi yung naabutan ko nga na GLX sa accessory shop na pumayag magpatest ng kotse niya, walang flicker, plus I also checked my friend who has a 2010 gls, and another friend who has a 2012 gtv. Walang flicker. Yung GLX, switch on high beam headlight with foglights, stereo, aircon blower without the compressor switched on, yung reading niya steady at 13.9. Yung sa akin will drop to 13.3 and continued to drop hanggang na picture ko yung voltmeter reading at 12.79, but actually, it continued to drop slowly.

Meron pa siyang warranty kasi July 2010 unit ito, so I have around 10 months warranty to go. Yun lang nga, sabi nga ng casa, walang problema ang battery at alternator according to their computer print out, kaya there is nothing to claim versus warranty. Yung battery ko, after market battery na, 3smf or N70. 2-3 months old, but the battery supplier agreed to replace it. Yung last check up sa casa, 3 days old pa ang replacement battery. Yung mga 2012 models ng Montero, naka 2smf or N50 na lang. The Mitsu service manager already ruled out that it is the battery. The casa electrician has already cleaned the grounding.

I also have a 2010 Strada with the original GS battery still connected. Sinubukan ko rin iswap ang battery nila. The GS battery installed at the Montero will still cause the voltage reading to drop, while the after market battery installed in the Strada, steady ang voltage reading. Same scenario: switch on high beam, fog lights, dome light, stereo, and aircon blower switched on. The only time the Strada's voltage reading drops is when I blow my horn, which is 2 sets of hella supertones, plus yung stereo niya may upgrade na rin. Yung Montero is still all stock.

Yung flicker is now happening more often, maybe at least 75% of the time na. Last month, it comes and goes.

Will ask the casa tomorrow about the labscope. Will also bring an electrical shop's battery voltmeter to show to the casa. Yung casa kasi insists on their computer which always show the reading at over 13, while if using a voltmeter, makikita yung "slow discharging".

[miko101130]

im suspecting the alternator diodes is somewhat involved...
the flickering headlights and the dropping voltage, plus the increasing instances that the headlights will flicker...

the alternator may not be sensing the load, and therfore does not provide the needed charge...

as to what the casa is insisting," that the unit is ok because there is no error yet happening..."
its because the vehicle is still within the range of charging (12.7 volts) but lets put that into perspective;

if a water pump is designed to pump at 100 liters/ hour, if it only performs at 70 liter/hour? does that constitutes as "walang sira o diperensiya"

just point out sir to the SA, na with other montero even with load, charge rate is at 13.7 volts....
that, being in the range of 12.7 volts of charging is not acceptable.!!!

[altec]

just came from mitsu casa. Using an analog tester, the readings came out to 13.5 without load, and 12.7 with load. We checked out the service manager's strada, his ride came to 13.8-14v. Then we removed the Strada's N70 Motolite battery and installed it to my Montero. Readings were still 12.7-13.5. We then looked for another Montero, with the original n50 GS battery. The readings were similar to the Strada's. Eto pa rin hirit ng service manager-- di siya naniniwala sa accuracy ng analog tester, but he will request from the mitsu plant in manila (sa sta rosa ba yun?) for a service alternator. Hopefully, that service unit will be delivered within the week and they will install it in my unit. Ayun, iniwan ko sa casa yung unit to wait for the service alternator.

[miked]

Ayun, iniwan ko sa casa yung unit to wait for the service alternator.

inakupow. sana wag lang nila gawan ng panibagong sira para kumita. heads up lang.

[altec]

Oo nga no? Pull out ko yung kotse bukas. Ipasok ko na lang pag dumating ang service alternator. Thanks for the heads up, Miked!

[miko101130]

Yep... Kakatawa naman yung SA... Pinipilit niya talaga yung baluktot niyang paniniwala at reasoning...12.7 volts is not normal with standard oem load..
If me technical manual sila, meron yang factory spec of what the alternator readings should be.... Analog tester or digital tester are fairly accurate..

Hahaha... Galing talaga ng s.a,, pag papa warranty client dame dahilan,,,
Onga sir, pull out mo muna habang wala pa service alternator,, baka ma-hocus pocus yan.. Hihihi...

[light2light]

sa battery charging, mas accurate kung alam mo ang charging current. may voltage reading ka na, dapat may ammeter ka pa.
i dont know why most cars do not have ammeters. basing your readings on both voltage and current is the surest way to analyse
battery problems. 3 cents worth lang po.

[miked]

the starter motor is the greatest power consuming device on a car. say a 2 hp starter motor will draw about 120-200 amperes. common automotive ammeters have usually a maximum reading of 100 A. usual gage have 60 A. thus the gage will blow out. afaik, ampere gages used on cars have a wire wired in parallel to the ampere gage to prevent this. exception are the alternator and starter testers used by auto and battery shops.

so my say is the voltmeter is better than the ammeter to check for a no-charge or overcharging condition. ammeters are way cheaper than voltmeters thats why most mechanics around the block use it for cars

[yapoy86]

you dont have to connect modern amp meters in series... you just need to clamp them on one supply wire.. the current creates a magnetic field that will be detected by the amp meter...

12.7 volts is low... i suspect your alternator IC is busted... volt reading with load should be at 13.5 volts minimum.. without load should be at 14.5 volts max...

if will have it DIY, i will change the Alternator IC first!! before changing the whole alternator...

[altec]

Update ko lang.

After so many back and forth with the service manager, nakisawsaw na nga rin yung president ng parts and service nila, initially the said they will request for a service alternator from the plant. But after waiting for over 1 week, nung follow up, sabi nila, wala, kasi nga walang problema. Using the casa's digital volt meter, we looked around and tested a 2010 gls 4x2 and a 2009 gls 4x4. The result? Both units' voltage also dropped to 13 and going down. Conclusion? Ganun talaga ang alternator ng 2010 montero. Even though sinabi ko sa kanila na sa kaibigan kong 2010 unit, hindi bumaba, yung sa dalawa kong kaibigan na naka 2012 gtv, plus 2 other 2011 units that we tested 2 weeks back using the analog tester na nag steady yung voltage readings nila, they still used the 2 latest montero units' readings as basis to say that the voltage drop is normal for the montero.

Yung assurance nila sa akin is that they have put the voltage drop on my unit's service record just in case may problema talaga at masira for the remaining warranty period. I just pulled out the unit na lang. I sent it to my company's truck motorpool as suggested by my suki accessory shop for voltage drop readings. Yung gagawin, kukunin ng voltage readings at saan na electrical load magstart yung significant drop. Then when that is determined, at lowest idling rpm, continue the voltage reading at 5 minute interval up to 1 hour to determine if the voltage will eventually stabilize or continue to drop below 12.


Iaano ko naman ang remaining warranty ng ride ko kung di ko naman ma claim sa casa warranty kasi para sa kanila, normal lang daw. (paano nga na promote yung service manager at yung president ng service and parts na parang kulang sa technical expertise yung dalawa, IMO) Ipapaayos ko na lang sa labas.

I will use that reading and submit it to my suki repair shop. Yung may ari ng repair shop, kinausap ko na rin. Sabi niya, he will check the IC, diode, stator, rotor. If IC or diode, pwede palitan. Pero kung may rewinding daw gagawin, he would rather look for a replacement alternator. For him, any drop to below 13 is never normal, maski anong sabihin ng mitsu casa. Yung dalawang montero na nag drop din ang voltage, most probably sira na rin ang alternator nila, di pa lang napansin ng may ari.

Which means baka at least up to the 2010 montero, hindi matibay ang alternator nila. I can't say with the 2011 and 2012 kasi yung apat na 2011-2012 montero na testing ko, ok pa ang voltage readings nila.

[yapoy86]

below 13volts is too low when the engine is running..... even car stereos are rated to operate at 13.8Volts!!!

when you turn off your engine, there is a "normal" voltage drop to around 12.9volts and it should hold there... when you start your engine you should have 14 volts reading then slowly stabilizing to 13.8 volts..

[altec]

eto ang results sa readings na pinagawa ko, bumaba hanggang 12.5v then nag hold doon. This was on a steady idling rpm of 650. Kasi pag nag switch on ang aircon compressor, the idling rpm goes up to 800-850, and the voltage readings goes up to 13. Pag nag rev, tsaka pa lang aakyat to 13.5 or so. I will take this up with my suki repair shop on monday.