Auto-LPG Conversion Thread

[Mile2]

Thanks to GreenFuel for the aftersales call this morning, right away I headed to their shop and they've done everything to solve my problem. Right now my ride is running okay no more stalling, even when I do hard turns and braking, though I feel some noticeable power loss on acceleration and uphill. For now this is okay and shall wait for your incoming new parts to upgrade my injection rail to bigger coils.

Truly appreciate all your efforts in giving "honest to goodness customer satisfaction". Thumbs up to team GreenFuel

[n5110]

I just had my first full tank last monday para ma obserbahan ang FC ko and so far maganda resulta. im getting 8km/li assuming puno nga ng 32li yung tank ko when i have it full tank. im still monitoring my FC sana hinde magbago sa ganito.


I minus some km distance para sa morning warm ups and sometimes pag stop and go traffic I switch to petrol dahil nag ddrop ang idling pero hinde naman nag sstall ang kotse.

So far im very satisfied sa performance ng car on LPG coz hardly noticeable and pagkakaiba.

Hi Mike, Warren,
Need your additional inputs:
1.0 I did close/shut off my khaos device but i still have idling drop when coming to a stop or at full stop. what do you recommend?

2.0 Am i running too lean? because my initial FC computation is 8km/li. Note: I dont really feel any performance drop when using lpg. it is almost like petrol. the only thing is idling drops but not stalling.

3.0 maybe we need to fine tune the idling with the car on drive engage to plus aircon and not neutral plus aircon. what do you think?

Overall so far so good and observation ko. ill be going to clark next week. ill monitor my car FC once again.

Thanks to Mike, Warren and Greenfuel team, I hope we can fix my idling problem soon. Thanks.

[aamd]

Fuel Consumption as of 13 August 2008

Car:.................2004 Mitsubishi Outlander 2.4.........1998 RAV4 2.0
LPG Kit:............SGI Greenfuel..............................CATGAS Open loop
Date (2008):.....June 23 - August 10......................May 19 - July 30
Km/Liter:..........5.33.............................. .............5.65
Peso/Km:..........6.13................................. ..........5.61
% Loss:............37%.............................. .............20%
Peso Savings:.....P6,346.77............................ .......P11,787.98
% Savings :.......29.93%.................................... ..36%

Just to update you guys: as of 5 September 2008

Car:.................2004 Mitsubishi Outlander 2.4.........1998 RAV4 2.0
LPG Kit:............SGI Greenfuel..............................CATGAS Open loop
Date (2008):.....June 23 - September 3...................May 19 - September 1
Km/Liter:..........5.27.............................. .............5.62
Peso/Km:..........6.14................................. ..........5.63
% Loss:............38%.............................. .............21%
Peso Savings:.....P8,243.19............................ .......P14,211.76
% Savings :.......28.96%.................................... ..35%

Religiously, i managed to monitor my LPG consumption since day one of my LPG use.

The following parameters are used:
1. My basis of comparison is the previous km/l figure using Shell E10 Unleaded against LPG.
2. Every refill of LPG, i go full tank. Get the KM reading and reset trip A
3. Monthly, i spend 500 pesos of E10 unleaded for manually lubricating the rav4 engine. I have not monitored outlander but i am sure they are almost the same, if not lesser unleaded consumption for the outlander.
4. If you need my computations, i can send them to you in excel format.

[n5110]

*aamd. Im also monitoring my lpg usage performance vs petrol. can i have a sample of your computation baka meron akong ibang factors na hinde nacoconsider. Thanks in advance. do you have idling drop problems on the open loop?

regards

[XOOMaster]

*aamd. Im also monitoring my lpg usage performance vs petrol. can i have a sample of your computation baka meron akong ibang factors na hinde nacoconsider. Thanks in advance. do you have idling drop problems on the open loop?

regards

hello sir n5110. I think your problem on idling can be solved by tune-up. one with out load (no A/C etc.) one when the A/C, headlights etc are turned on. This should solve your rpm drops. I think the tech team of Green Fuel can help you on that.

[n5110]

hello sir n5110. I think your problem on idling can be solved by tune-up. one with out load (no A/C etc.) one when the A/C, headlights etc are turned on. This should solve your rpm drops. I think the tech team of Green Fuel can help you on that.

Hi XooMaster: thanks for the input. Im not sure if there is 2 separate idling adjustments for these conditions. ginawa lang kasi nilang idling adjustment is when i switch AC +headlights at walang adjustments for NO load. possible ba ito for emulator kits? Thanks.

[n5110]

hello sir n5110. I think your problem on idling can be solved by tune-up. one with out load (no A/C etc.) one when the A/C, headlights etc are turned on. This should solve your rpm drops. I think the tech team of Green Fuel can help you on that.

Hi XooMaster: thanks for the input. Im not sure if there is 2 separate idling adjustments for these conditions. ginawa lang kasi nilang idling adjustment is when i switch AC +headlights at walang adjustments for NO load. possible ba ito for emulator kits? Thanks.

[XOOMaster]

Hi XooMaster: thanks for the input. Im not sure if there is 2 separate idling adjustments for these conditions. ginawa lang kasi nilang idling adjustment is when i switch AC +headlights at walang adjustments for NO load. possible ba ito for emulator kits? Thanks.

hmmm..so your car was installed with an EFI kit? The best way to make adjustments is to check your exhaust readings through a gas analyzer just to check if your running rich or lean. Then tune-up the car accordingly so the mixture is just right even with or with-out load. That should solve your problems of low RPM.

[n5110]

hmmm..so your car was installed with an EFI kit? The best way to make adjustments is to check your exhaust readings through a gas analyzer just to check if your running rich or lean. Then tune-up the car accordingly so the mixture is just right even with or with-out load. That should solve your problems of low RPM.

Greenfuel call it emulator kit but not sure if this is an EFI kit. I need to check with them if they have the gas analyzer to check if im running rich or lean. Thanks a lot for the inputs.

[XOOMaster]

Greenfuel call it emulator kit but not sure if this is an EFI kit. I need to check with them if they have the gas analyzer to check if im running rich or lean. Thanks a lot for the inputs.

Hi n5110 yes emulator kit is EFI kit.

[Mile2]

Any CleanFuel Auto LPG refilling station has gas analyzer apparatus - It's FREE. ( SGI kits not included in this promo )

They will calibrate and clean your air filter as long as you refill from their station.

Mine is SGI, so I just have my air filter cleaned.

[straker]

Tanong lang.... I presume the shops don't have this. Is a "dual-fuel" tank available already, somewhere? A single tank with two separate compartments, one for gas, the other for LPG. Being separated, pipes and other interfaces will go into their respective systems.

Since this will replace our existing tank, this resolves the tank placement issues.

Or maybe this is just a figment of my imagination.

[ghosthunter]

Tanong lang.... I presume the shops don't have this. Is a "dual-fuel" tank available already, somewhere? A single tank with two separate compartments, one for gas, the other for LPG. Being separated, pipes and other interfaces will go into their respective systems.

Since this will replace our existing tank, this resolves the tank placement issues.

Or maybe this is just a figment of my imagination.

I think the picture explains it well enough.

[n5110]

Any CleanFuel Auto LPG refilling station has gas analyzer apparatus - It's FREE. ( SGI kits not included in this promo )

They will calibrate and clean your air filter as long as you refill from their station.

Mine is SGI, so I just have my air filter cleaned.

thanks for the info. this is good news since they have the gas analyzer it eliminates "tsambahan". im going to qc tomorrow sana meron sa clean fuel congressional para ma check ang settings sa kotse ko before heading clark. thanks again mile2

[straker]

GH....hahaha, very funny!

[straker]

Visited EROOM and Greengas this week. EROOM's offering me their closed loop kit & a 40li cylinder, mounted on the spare wheel well for just over 30T. I'm looking forward for his SGI version, maybe next month the earliest.

Greengas offers an SGI kit for 45T, with the 40li cylinder in the trunk.

I've brought this idea to my parents, they're not pleased (to the point of facing another sermon) with what I'm up to. Their belief is that the car's innards is meant for gas, and not for another... Ika nga, either buy a bi-fuel car, or SHUT UP AND USE GAS!

Not exactly my better day....

[aamd]

*N5110

Please give me your email addy so i can send to you the excel file.....

----....-----

Is this possible to implement? i dont think so...


Govt to crack down on conversion shops

Unsafe auto-LPG vehicles
proliferating – Energy dept

By Euan Paulo C. Añonuevo, Reporter

THE Department of Energy will crack down on illegally converted auto-liquefied petroleum gas (LPG) vehicles operating as public transport services.

Energy Secretary Angelo Reyes said this move aims to curb illegal conversion shops, which have no certification from the Department of Trade and Industry for auto-LPG conversion and installation.

“We want to ensure that the safety and well-being of the riding public are being taken care of,” he said.

The Energy secretary said the Presidential Task Force on the Security of Energy Facilities and Enforcement of Energy Laws and Standards will conduct vehicle inspections in Metro Manila to apprehend illegally converted auto-LPG vehicles.

“Operatives of the task force will inspect vehicles to ferret out violators of energy laws and standards. While we support the conversion to auto-LPG so that drivers can make more money from their daily rounds, we do not want to compromise the safety of the riding public,” Reyes said.

In light of this, the Energy department is advising drivers and operators of auto-LPG vehicles to bring with them the certificate of conversion issued by accredited conversion shops whenever they are on the road.

At present, the majority of vehicles that have been converted for LPG use are in the public transport sector, particularly taxicabs. The government however has no reliable data on the number of vehicles that have converted to LPG use.

Recently, the government tied up with US-based Energtek Inc. for the conversion of tricycles for LPG use.

The company is arranging a micro-financing scheme that would help owners of tricycles to tap the alternative fuel.

The alternative fuel, which is commonly used as cooking gas in the country, costs around P30.20 to P33.68 per liter compared with P52.07 to P54.15 per liter for unleaded gasoline.

Despite its relatively low price, LPG, which is a byproduct of oil refining, is also affected by fluctuations in world oil prices and seasonal demand in countries with cooler climates that use the alternative fuel for heating purposes.

[MFB]

Sino sa local installers other than Stargas Phils (Prins system) may lubrication option for the valves? Sa research ko for my forester, failure to put lubrication is the no 1 reason for cylinder head damage. Most installers overseas forego this procedure because the engine has "hardened valves" already. May flash lube na ba sa atin? http://www.flashlube.com.au/en/valve...t/lpg_cng.html

[MFB]

Ok, just clicked the Flash Lube where to buy link. Meron dito sa Pinas! The distributor is
Lovely Home Inc.
474-478 Jaboneros Street, San Nicolas Manila Philippines 1010
Phone: +63 2 2428316
Fax: +63 224 22020
Email: agt*pacific.net.ph

Anyone familiar with them?

[niky]

I've read some word on the net that even flashlube isn't enough because the metering of the lube isn't enough.

If you're really worried about valves, go for the dual-gas system that will mix in gasoline at high loads (this is where valve seat recession sets in... at high rpms where the combustion chamber is hot and the valve starts micro-welding itself to the valve seat and chewing bits out of it).

You have to consider the source of your research and the type of kits that such observations come from... is it for the Forester mismo? Or for other cars? What kind of kits were they using? And what is the age of the cars? I'm compiling data on converted vehicles overseas, and so far, most of the problems appear to be backfiring with venturi mixers, with valve recession not reported on newer vehicles... though everyone keeps saying it will happen, nobody has shown it happening with an SGI kit on a 2000+ vehicle.