Which USED Euro Car?

[snail]

First things first, I'm from Davao.

The choices are:

BMW X5 3.0d (E70) or Audi Q7 3.0d or MB ML350

or

BMW 520d/530d or Audi A6 or MB CLS350

Preferably a 2006 and up model with less than 30,000km on the odo.

Budget is anywhere from 2M to 3.5M


If you were in the market for a USED Euro car, which would you prefer among the cars posted above based on the following criterias?


1. Reliability - Sourcing of spare parts is not a problem since we have contacts in manila, but we don't want our car breaking down every couple of months or so. We don't expect the car to be as worry-free as our Japs, but I've also heard a lot of horror stories about euro car reliablity issues.

Also, what are the documented probems/issues to watch out for for these models? I'm particularly concerned about electronic and mechanical problems more than anything else.

2. Spare parts and Maintenance Costs - AFAIK, there are no authorized Audi, BMW and/or MB service centers around here, so we have no choice but to have PMS and repairs done by a referred local casa. I was of the notion that BMW spare parts are cheaper than MBs, and that Audis have a lot of issues with their electronics. Are these true?

The car will be used mostly on weekends and special occasions only. We also plan to hold on to it for a few years (unless it's more trouble than it's worth) So consumption, practicality, resale value, etc. are not really major concerns of ours.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

P.S. Anyone selling any one of the models we're looking for?

[GTi]

I'd suggest the Audi Q7. You get the benefits and practicalities of a diesel engine and loads more space than the ubiquitous X5. Even though the engine's not the fastest one out there, you can easily chip it for more power. You'd also find newer units of the Q7 as compared to the X5 due to lower resale values of Audi's as compared to Mercs and BMWs.

[renzo_d10]

It's either the q7 or any from the sedans given for me. Reliability would still depend on how the previous owner took care of the car. If maintenance sched is followed regularly then it should have no problems on the next couple of years. Of course normal wear and tear is expected.

[niky]

If we're discounting consumption but still going by practicality and weekend trip ability... a brand new CX9 at under 2.5m is about as nice inside as an X5 (depending on the model... the base X5 3.0D interiors aren't really that special, actually... though the top-of-the-line V8s are nicer than the CX9) and much more spacious (X5 optional third row is absolutely laughable, second row, if I recall correctly, isn't as comfy as in CX9). Can't beat the Q7 for interior quality or comfort, but it's not too far behind. The CX9 is about as quick or quicker than both Germans (270+ hp V6 versus 230+ hp diesels), handles nearly as well as an X5 (mid-to-upper trim X5s with good tires... the base X5 3.0D feels a bit "looser" than the Mazda), has a great sounding V6 and a responsive paddle-shift 6AT, has six adult sized seats (as long as the third row adults are under 5'3"), decent leather and 20" rims (bling bling). Base model X5s and Q7s aren't nearly that well-equipped. And the CX9, as a premium Mazda, has the solidity and refinement you'd expect from a vehicle costing twice as much.

A 520d is pretty bare, but it's tremendous fun to drive. But again, stripper model. The 530d feels heavier but has lots more power, and is a right gas. The A6 has a nicer interior, but the 5-series is just such a sweet car to drive...

Again, though... if you go with a "cheaper" car brand new, at 3.6m you can get a twin-turbo S60 T6, which has a paddle-shift 6AT, 300 horsepower, all-wheel drive, around as much rear seat space as the older 5-series (perhaps a little less... the S60 is sort of bantam-sized), good leather, a nice interior, and more electronic toys than both Germans put together... road-following headlights, radar cruise control, pedestrian-sensitive emergency braking system... the works. And it has better rollover protection than any other car on the market sans the Volvo XC60, which you could roll down the side of a mountain and drive away unscathed. Only reason I don't recommend the XC60 is the seats are pretty stiff and the interior isn't great... the S60 T6 has interior trim that's miles better.

Neither CX9 nor S60 will be seen by hotel valets or golf club kibbitzers as "cheap" cars. A secondhand previous generation X5 or 5-series will be obviously old. And even better, you're buying new with warranty, so any glitches will be covered for at least the next three to five years. Secondhands will only have one or two years of coverage left... 06s will likely have none. And with expensive cars from prestige brands, expect to pay much more for emergency or unexpected repairs.

Wonder how long before someone suggests a Prado... :hysterical:

[ChunkyLover]

Tol why not buy a bnew car rather than a 2nd hand euro?...
just go with the S60 or prado...

"are you willing to SPEND YOUR ---3.5M--- for a car that has been USED for a VERY LONG TIME"
IMO that would be a pretty big waste of money

[snail]

If it were up to me, i'd go with a brand new or slightly used C200 CGI or A4 TDi, but my dad has the final say on this. The CX-9 is out of the question (or the Prado for that matter) since my dad's already decided on a euro because of the "prestige" factor.

I've seen a couple of Q7s with less than 30k for about 3-3.5m but i'm not sure if they're base or S-line variants since i haven't seen the units in person yet. Also an '08 X5 3.0d with under 15k for around 3.7m. Description listing is pretty vague, so i can't really say if they're bare-bone variants or not.

As for the sedans, a CLS350 would cost about the same for a low-mileage unit and a 520d would be cheaper by about a million or so, yun nga lang, like niky said, stripper model talaga siya.

Any owner feedbacks re: Audi Q7 reliability? Any electronic or mechanical issues to look out for?

So before anyone else suggests an LC200 or a Veracruz...

[SiRbossR]

review all your choices first before your dad decides. for me, i'd get a brand new.

[Starex_Gold]

Mercedes Benz CLS 350.

Rare, looks good, and it's a Benz. hehe.

I really like that car.

[rafmac]

Call CATS in Greenhills and inquire about their pre owned inventory at least kahit 2nd hand you are assured because they still offer warranty.

[ChunkyLover]

If it were up to me, i'd go with a brand new or slightly used C200 CGI or A4 TDi, but my dad has the final say on this. The CX-9 is out of the question (or the Prado for that matter) since my dad's already decided on a euro because of the "prestige" factor.

I've seen a couple of Q7s with less than 30k for about 3-3.5m but i'm not sure if they're base or S-line variants since i haven't seen the units in person yet. Also an '08 X5 3.0d with under 15k for around 3.7m. Description listing is pretty vague, so i can't really say if they're bare-bone variants or not.

As for the sedans, a CLS350 would cost about the same for a low-mileage unit and a 520d would be cheaper by about a million or so, yun nga lang, like niky said, stripper model talaga siya.

Any owner feedbacks re: Audi Q7 reliability? Any electronic or mechanical issues to look out for?

So before anyone else suggests an LC200 or a Veracruz...

hmmm.. ganun? so your looking for the "prestige" factor but your deciding on buying a "2nd" hand car? hehe tell your dad that...
tol believe me it may look prestigious on the outside but inside your not gonna get that new leather smell and that "virgin" feel...
just get a BRAND new audi a4 Tdi... its still euro and you could get it for only 2.6m with the discount...

[snail]

My dad cannot justify to himself buying a brand new car worth 5-6M and lose half its value a couple of years down the road. maybe it won't matter if and when we get to be as rich as you and can afford to buy a brand new Cayenne and A7 without even blinking an eye

Besides, i know someone who's really rich (in every sense of the word) but all their cars are pre-owned except for a 2010 X-Trail. To each his own, i suppose.

Going back to topic, how does the dealer warranty work if the unit is outside Luzon anyway?

[niky]

If there are no local dealerships, you have to ship your car to the nearest dealership for every oil change.

The big problem with buying a secondhand "prestige brand" diesel is that the car has already been exposed to our terrible local diesel for a few years, already. Which means that they only have so much life left in the injectors. If you get one that's been well cared for, no problem, if you get one that's been exposed to dirty or water-contaminated diesel already, big problem. It won't be obvious right away, maybe, but another year or two down the line, you'll be paying through the nose for new injectors. (Not quite sure what the price is for those cars, but I don't think a set of injectors for the sixes will go below 200k pesos.)

Either way, you are still losing value on the vehicles... just not as quickly on the secondhands, but you'll be losing it, nonetheless.

Best thing to do is to go view each car for sale with your Dad and see what you can get in the best condition. Given you're in Davao, it might even be worth it to look at a used X5 V8, since those come with a nicer interior than the 3.0Ds, a sweeter engine and a better kit (if I recall right, front lip, rear valance, bigger wheels). And since the V8 is a "guzzler", you can likely get it for a similar price to the originally cheaper diesel unit. Just check for interior trim damage, as the hot weather here is killer on leather and interior trim.

The only reason to go for a diesel is fuel economy. If that's not an issue, go for a gasoline unit, to ensure slightly longer trouble-free motoring. All German brands have expensive electronics and have the occassional "glitch". If the previous owner has had any troubles with the electronics... rats... flooding... wires cooking in the engine bay in traffic... it will cost quite a bit to repair, whether it's Mercedes, Audi or BMW... I'm not as "loaded" as your dad is, but I've got a fair number of relatives who own prestige cars like the Q7, LR4, X5 and assorted Mercedes S-class and BMW 7-series... (as well as one XJR)... and the cost of maintenance at the casa is... suffice to say... jaw-dropping... I believe the last I heard, the PMS of an S-Class is enough to pay my salary. The cost of parts is worse. Even better if you have contacts abroad who can ship them in for you, but there are few non-casa shops that know all the ins-and-outs of the cars... and I don't know of any in Davao.

[ChunkyLover]

My dad cannot justify to himself buying a brand new car worth 5-6M and lose half its value a couple of years down the road. maybe it won't matter if and when we get to be as rich as you and can afford to buy a brand new Cayenne and A7 without even blinking an eye

Besides, i know someone who's really rich (in every sense of the word) but all their cars are pre-owned except for a 2010 X-Trail. To each his own, i suppose.

Going back to topic, how does the dealer warranty work if the unit is outside Luzon anyway?

Tol the reason i oppose on buying a 2nd hand car is there are a lot of safety issues that could go wrong...

Brakes, airbags, engine, and structural durability considering you dont know its history... Better to be safe than to save

Well if it cant be helped, cats motors certified pre owned is the best way to go... But only supports MErc...
Check BMW in libis,I think they also have pre owned cars... Warranty is still valid outside luzon but when a break down occurs, the problem is getting the car to the casa, because they dont have towing services that far...

M-class and X530d has my vote

[vinj]

Have you checked with the local shops in Davao if there are any specialty/import service shops and what brands are they adept with? Try to check also the local luxury car owners and with the Manila distributors on how they deal with theirs. Some may be pooling their resources to have a mechanic and tools sent down for a service session. Lexus is also out of the question?

If you cannot find a unit in which you are sure the owner cared for it, I'd probably go with a certified preowned, gasoline model from MB, BMW or Audi so at least its a unit with traceable service history and it has undergone the battery of tests/checks for the certification.

Our family friends in Bukidnon gets by with their Land Rovers (mostly D110s) and just ship in the parts from Manila. This however doesnt have much electronics.

Keep your options open... do a trip to Manila and schedule to see several cars then go with what you like the best. When you do buy one, do not keep it as a garage queen that rarely sees the road as chances are it will break down even more (as what had happed with a relative's S-Class some years ago). Enjoy the car.

[Gerbo]

To the TS.

I do not know if you are aware that a BMW dealership is now open for business in Mindanao. It is located near SM Cagayan de Oro City. Maybe getting the bavarian brand may seem to be less of a hassle.

[guigui]

PGA Cars also has an inventory of certified Pre-Owned models. For the TS, this dealer sells Audi and Porsche. It's located in EDSA near Greenhills. But then again, you'll need to go to Manila to check the cars out. Try to google those dealers that sells certified pre-owned cars to check on their current inventory.

[vinj]

To the TS.

I do not know if you are aware that a BMW dealership is now open for business in Mindanao. It is located near SM Cagayan de Oro City. Maybe getting the bavarian brand may seem to be less of a hassle.

Really? Thats good news if ever... the drive between Davao to CdO is one nice trip to stretch out your EU ride.

[snail]

That's good news. I'll ask some contacts in CDO to verify this. Thanks for the tip.

We're not considering Lexus at the moment since none of their models within our price range appeal to us