Toyota RAV4 SV 4x2 or New Honda CR-V?

[Supierreman]

And don't be misled by the anomaly that Honda engines have exceptional technology.

wow... i-vtec is an anomaly pala :roll: :o I haven't heard that one from most car magazine reviews.

enlighten us please

[Macky]

The Honda simply adds a higher class appeal, but not as rocksteady and reliable in the long run as the Toyota and Isuzu.

hmmm... what makes you so sure about that? do you have a first hand experience in driving one or at least owning one to give a long term report and conclusion? :roll:

Aaaahhh, the all-reliable Isuzu 8) Europe and North America are now favoring safety and reliability in buying a car. Kaya pala #1 ang Isuzu sa truck-crazy market like North America 8O

Seriously, I have nothing against Isuzu. In fact, Isuzu was one of the earlier partners of Honda. Let me see.... the Acura SLX and Honda Passport did miserably in terms of reliabilityand sales. They went out in anonimity with the Passport going away quietly last year. The only reliable Isuzu vehicle I could think of is the Oasis which they couldn't sell and production was subsequently discontinued.

And speaking of sales, here's some facts to consider:

"Honda has defied falling demand for new cars in Japan in February, showing a sharp rise in sales compared with the same period last year.

Overall vehicle sales in Japan fell 3.6% in February but Honda sales were up 18.8%.

Japan's four other main carmakers - Toyota, Nissan, Mitsubishi, Mazda - all saw a fall in sales."

Rest of the story here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1896624.stm

WSJ ran a similar story last week, pulling in the results of US auto sales. Domestic manufacturer numbers, as you might have guessed, are down. The crux of the article: in the US for last month; Honda up 11.2%, Hyundai up 8.7%, Toyota flat at .9%, Chrysler down 10%, GM auto div down 22% (!), GM truck div up 2.5%. Overall domestic auto sales down 8.6% from April 02, overall sales (domestic + import) down 6.2%.

Honda Motor Co. Ltd. posted record high net income, operating profit and revenues for the second consecutive fiscal year.

http://www.autonews.com/article.cms?articleId=43414&a=a&bt=Accord& amp;arc=n

Here's a YTD sales glimpse from the largest car market in the world:

http://www.autonews.com/news.cms?newsId=5218

Smaller pie, honda has a bigger slice at the moment.

For diesel lovers:
Honda Motor Europe Ltd. announced today that Honda's first diesel engine to be fully developed and built in-house is to make its world debut at this year's Geneva Motor Show. The new 2.2 litre i-CTDi power unit joins Honda's intelligently-controlled i-series family of engines that already includes the i-VTEC and i-DSI range of petrol engines. It will be used to power, among others, the new Honda Accord - to be revealed in diesel form at September's Frankfurt Motor Show - and, at a later date, the Honda CR-V.

Expectations will be high given Honda's engine pedigree, and the company's firm intention was to establish a new benchmark in diesel performance. While development continues, output figures are still provisional but the new i-CTDi engine is expected to produce a power output of over 140 PS and a maximum torque figure of around 340 Nm.

Honda has consistently brought creative thinking and innovative solutions to whichever new area of technology it has chosen to pursue, with its current work in the field of fuel cells being a prime example. While a late entrant into the diesel field, the company nevertheless already gained valuable expertise during the development of the diesel engine powering the current Civic range. And it can, of course, call on vast resources and a depth of knowledge gathered over many years of petrol engine research.

The all-aluminium i-CTDi employs second-generation common-rail technology to provide further advances in fuel efficiency and refinement. It also features a turbocharger and four valves per cylinder. It will fully comply with Euro 4 emissions standards. In short, it will deliver smooth, refined, high performance motoring, matched with frugality and particularly low emissions, perfectly complementing the character of the new Accord range.

Sales of the diesel Accord commence in early 2004.



Eto, an article about quality and reliability done by CR.

For the Asian market:
Asian Cars Still Win On Quality.

Consumer Reports' research still shows Honda and Toyota top other makes with fewest problems.

Japan's Toyota Motor Co. led all automakers with just 10 problems per 100 vehicles in the 2002 model year, while Hyundai tied for second place with Honda Motor Co. with 11 problems per 100 vehicles.

Honda had five vehicles among the "top picks," while Toyota had two vehicles. The magazine ranked the Honda Accord and the Volkswagen Passat as the top family sedans, the Accord with the best four-cylinder engine, and the Passat the top pick for a six-cylinder.

Here's how the ther car manufacturers fair:
CR's RELIABILITY RANKINGS
For 2002 models, the average was 18 problems per 100 vehicles, vs. 21 in 2001.

Brand Problems per 100 vehicles
Toyota 10
Honda 11
Hyundai 11
Subaru 13
Nissan 15
BMW 20
Chrysler 20
Mazda 20
Volkswagen 20
General Motors 21
Mercedes-Benz 22
Ford Motor 23

Isuzu??? I'll take a Hyundai anytime 8)

[PJ]

:D

[Severus|]

Squala, I do know na hindi na 4 WD ang Pajero. Even though this is the case, it is still way better than a RAV 4. Dagdag ka ng around 150k solve na. Kaya nga nagkalat Pajero sa kalsada at kaunti lang RAV 4. Most probably ito rin ang naisip nila lalo na kung hulugan mo naman babayaran. Halos hindi mo na mararamdaman yung 150k difference.

I don't think na hindi significant ang hp and performance gain between a 1.8 and a 2.0. Considering that Honda's engines are really made for speed, performance and economy (yung sa CR-V). In terms of fuel economy, I do not know kung papaano madedetermine kung sino ang mas matipid. Pero in line with common sense, mas madalas, mas matipid ang mas mababa. It is better to compare the RAV 4 4 WD version w/ CR-V dahil sila ang parehong 2.0.

With regards to your AUV argument, consumers din naman ang nakinabang dahil sa pagbababa ng price. Hindi lahat ng tao kaya bumili ng 1M plus na sasakyan and this is a great opportunity to get one na mas mura pero same quality. There is no sense of declaring the true state of the car kung yung taxes hindi mo naman alam saan mapupunta.

And again, matagal na sa market ang RAV 4. Yung J series siguro parang yung Pajero na limited edition rin. In case of the Pajero, malapit na siyang mapalitan. Buti nalang at nagrelease ng 2 WD version for the RAV 4 kaya sumabit yung mga 4 WD. Hindi naman tama na ngayon sila magpalit ng model dahil bago pa yung 2 WD variant.

In terms of price, I think you also need to expect na you will get more ng kaunti sa RAV 4 dahil mas mahal naman talaga siya. Pero, mas mura talaga parts and maintenance ng Toyota. Diyan talung-talo ibang car brands.

Kanya-kanya lang yan... :mrgreen:

FYI, the CR-V is a guzzler (only 6 km/li). And don't be misled by the anomaly that Honda engines have exceptional technology. Come to think of it, a Corolla or Lancer can go head-to-head with any Civic bar the SiR. Honda, according to brochures, have slightly more power, but only the test driver can tell the real difference, if any.

The reason why the RAV has a price near the Pajero is that it has higher tax (di ba mas hefty pag 4WD SUV?). Also, the new Pajero has been out in other countries for years; Mitsubishi may just be finishing their last stock of old models here before launching the new one (like what they did with the Lancer). Lastly, Toyota still wins in the long run (great reliability and abundance and affordability of parts).

For those people planning to buy AUVs, the Revo or Crosswind are still surer buys than the CR-V. The Honda simply adds a higher class appeal, but not as rocksteady and reliable in the long run as the Toyota and Isuzu.

Only 6 km/li? Check your data or Honda will sue you. Honda engines do have exceptional technology. Is there a car in the market that only releases water vapor as waste? SiR against a Lancer/Toyota, not quite...

Not rocksteady? You heard what Macky said. Hehe. :mrgreen:

[Supierreman]

gotta check the facts straight before making sweeping generalizations tsk tsk tsk... buti na lang andyan si Macky :D

Honda engines an anomaly... now that is very amusing :roll:

Oh well...

[mbt]

Severus|,

6 km/L in typical manila city driving is about right... my average economy to date with my 2.0L 2k2 cr-v a/t over 3465.1 km and 611.518 L of regular unleaded is 5.67 km/L ...

of course, figures of other owners/drivers will vary, but i have some confidence that my figures are a good representation of typical, daily city driving.

[Macky]

Severus|,

6 km/L in typical manila city driving is about right... my average economy to date with my 2.0L 2k2 cr-v a/t over 3465.1 km and 611.518 L of regular unleaded is 5.67 km/L ...

of course, figures of other owners/drivers will vary, but i have some confidence that my figures are a good representation of typical, daily city driving.

Sobrang bagal naman kasi ng traffic dyan sa atin. Biruin mo, my 2.4L RT4WD CR-V gets 9.01km/l in city driving and 10.71km/l sa highway 8)

[mbt]

Macky,

exactly... i'm talking strictly about typical manila driving.

[Macky]

Macky,

exactly... i'm talking strictly about typical manila driving.

Grabe na talaga ang traffic..... baka 4km/l lang ako dyan, hehehe. Anyway, car manufacturers base their estimate mileage on normal city and highway driving (minsan nga sa the best driving condition e). Akala yata ng gobyerno natin nung early 19th century na kabayo talaga ang magiging major means of transportation natin kaya hindi nila nilawakan ang mga kalsada 8)

[Severus|]

Severus|,

6 km/L in typical manila city driving is about right... my average economy to date with my 2.0L 2k2 cr-v a/t over 3465.1 km and 611.518 L of regular unleaded is 5.67 km/L ...

of course, figures of other owners/drivers will vary, but i have some confidence that my figures are a good representation of typical, daily city driving.

Ok. Hindi ako sigurado pero ang pagkakatanda ko, noong karerelease lang sa market ng CR-V, 7.5 - 8.0 km/l ang sabi sa isang link na napuntahan ko... Pwede ring sa autofocus ko napanuod. Not sure.