lpg vs diesel

[userfriendly]

Help me decide which is the better choice. I have 2 gas guzzlers, cefiro v6 and chevy venture also a v6. Sobrang lakas sa gas pag city driving. My choices are to convert one to lpg or sell one and buy a 2nd hand diesel auv. 1st choice crosswind 2nd choice adventure.

Both cars are driven approx 10,000 kms a year, 40% highway 60% city. Malimit ako sa highway kaya v6 yung mga auto.

Pros ng lpg conversion: same car (comfortable and spacious), same power, cheap fuel 25.18 per liter, enviormently friendly, kits are transferable should I decide to change cars in the future although has to be a v6 again.

Cons ng conversion: cost, will take 1 to 2 years to recoup cost depending on kit used.

Pros of AUV: frugality of diesel, 7 pesos cheaper than unleaded, better milage, cheaper cost per km compared to lpg since you get more km per liter, reliability (tibay ng crosswind and andventure).

Cons ng diesel: Noise, ride (giving up comfort), slow acceleration (i'm used to a v6 but not that big a factor since I'm trying to save), looks (don't like how they look but not a big deal), low resale value of my current cars, mausok common sa diesel at walang magagawa, will have to spend on maintenance after buying (change fluids etc. cause I won't know how they were treated by the previous owner)

What do you think? And thanks in advance.

[ghosthunter]

One more CON for getting LPG. The LPG tank will eat up space in the back.

If it's really more for utility than personal transport, get a diesel instead of converting to LPG.

[niky]

A secondhand Crosswind shouldn't give you much trouble. The only potential trouble spots are the power steering hoses, the radiator and the exhaust. The radiator problem isn't a common one, and the exhaust is cheap to fix. There are three Crosswinds in our family, and even the oldest (a Highlander XTRM... old box-type body) is still in good running condition. Of course, it's not that great to drive or ride, but it gets the job done.

Am not familiar with secondhand Adventure quality, will let the others chime in.

I'd sell the Venture, since you're replacing it with another big vehicle, and the Nissan is easier to maintain (if not much cheaper). You're going to have to put up some cash, though, besides what you get from the sale, to afford a nice Crosswind, Adventure or Revo.

[ghosthunter]

a Toyota Innova diesel would be a nice replacement for the Chevy Venture.

[1979]

Automobile performance dips in a country such as ours where going 80kph is a luxury isn't too big a deal. Tartarini, an Italian manufacturer offers a conversion for 25k which allows you to switch back to gasoline ANYTIME, even on the fly. Technically you become BI-FUEL. It also has a gauge, whereas the others do not.

I have 3 petrol powered vehicles and my Mercedes W124 200 will be the first to undergo conversion. I travel 100km daily in Metro Manila, with today's pump prices my Php2500-3000 weekly fuel bills shall be cut in half. In 20 weeks I shall have recovered the cost of conversion. Heck, if it's really good then a 500k '98-99 Expedition is starting to look good! These guys specialize in European and American V6s/V8s - carbureted or injected petrol systems

The only drawback is, the other Autogas stations are still in the works. There's only a few stations that sell LPG-- Mandaluyong, Makati and somewhere near NAIA.

I specifically hailed a taxicab on Sunday with the LPG power decal, so that I could study the logistics, etc. I did not notice a change in power. It's very simple, and if you're not happy with it you can just revert to your old fuel system. But to me millions of Europeans and Koreans couldn't be wrong.

I had an Optra for a demo car yesterday and there was no change in power. LPG actually works better with EFI, but it's costlier, say, 40k...I kept going from LPG to petrol just for the fun of it! No LPG smell, no smoke to boot! You have a choice of getting the big tank which eats 20% trunk space or the spare wheel well tank-- then just get that flat tire fix in a can!

The fuel seals are excellent and in the event of a collision an automatic shut off engages. Let me have it installed, and then I'll let everybody know.

[userfriendly]

Hi 1979,

Where did you order your lpg kit? I belive I read in another thread that you imported it, is this correct? I'll await your updates and hopefully you can share a review on your kit after it has been installed.

a Toyota Innova diesel would be a nice replacement for the Chevy Venture.

I'm not really a fan of Toyota diesels, had bad experiences with the old FX and read too many negative feedbacks with the D4D.

I'd sell the Venture, since you're replacing it with another big vehicle, and the Nissan is easier to maintain (if not much cheaper). You're going to have to put up some cash, though, besides what you get from the sale, to afford a nice Crosswind, Adventure or Revo.

This is one of the options I'm considering. Although the Nissan has been giving me problems lately. The Chevy has been reliable (knock on wood). Can you guys give me a ball park figure on how much I can get for my cars and how much 2nd hand AUV's go for?

[badkuk]

dudes, i heard somewhere na di daw ganun kalakas ang hatak/torque pag lpg; hirap daw sa uphill climbs. is there truth to this or urban legend lang?

[theveed]

badkuk: nadiscuss na po sa kabilang LPG thread po.

[ghosthunter]

dudes, i heard somewhere na di daw ganun kalakas ang hatak/torque pag lpg; hirap daw sa uphill climbs. is there truth to this or urban legend lang?

There is less power but uphill climbs aren't affected. I still can go up the mall parking ramps (Robinson's Galleria, SM megamall, SM Mall of Asia, Greenhills, Glorietta, etc) without stressing the engine.

If the engine badly lacks power going uphills using LPG, it just might be a sign that the LPG kit is in need of a re-tuning.

[badkuk]

sori boss theveed :D

[chuaed]

dudes, i heard somewhere na di daw ganun kalakas ang hatak/torque pag lpg; hirap daw sa uphill climbs. is there truth to this or urban legend lang?

FONT="Georgia"][SIZE="3"]naku whag ka mapaniwala sa mga kwento kutchero... ako personally naka lpg noh humahataw pa rin kahit sa uphill climbs... infact pinapalipad ko pa nga sasakyan ko dahil palagi late at nagmamadali sa pag punta sa work...

mga taxi na nagpakabit ng lpg palagi reclamo mahina ang hatak eh papano ba naman sinasakal nila iyun daloy ng gas papunta sa makina... okay... ...[/SIZE][/FONT]

badkuk: nadiscuss na po sa kabilang LPG thread po.

[SIZE="3"]oo nga naman tsong, may thread na para dyan eh...[/SIZE]

[mbeige]

Diesel na lang ako. I think masvolatile ang LPG, and considering na modification has to be done sa kotse (lowering resale value), I think it's not worth it unless sobrang beater siya like what taxis do. Plus, it's much safer to have a diesel factory vehicle than a converted LPG.

Diesel also has alternative fuels like biodiesel, veggie oil, etc.

[Hibiki]

Diesel na lang ako. I think masvolatile ang LPG, and considering na modification has to be done sa kotse (lowering resale value), I think it's not worth it unless sobrang beater siya like what taxis do. Plus, it's much safer to have a diesel factory vehicle than a converted LPG.

Diesel also has alternative fuels like biodiesel, veggie oil, etc.

The more cars converting to LPG, more competition with households for cooking gas. As we all know, LPG price goes up whenever oil prices increase in the global market. More competition for a diminishing supply, higher cost.

Sa Biodiesel, less ang cost and hassle (walang conversions needed). Biodiesel is becoming popular and it won't be long na bababa ang cost ng Biodiesel. Big chance na mas mababa kesa sa level ng LPG. Less cost and hassle, environment friendly kasi renewable ang biodiesel, and you will directly contribute to the local economy (agriculture).

[userfriendly]

Ran some figures:
Assume AUV consumes around 10 lkm/liter city, price of diesel 37
37 / 10 = 3.7 pesos per kilometer

Actual consumption of my cars 5 km/liter city, cost of lpg 25
25 / 5 = 5 pesos per kilometer

5 - 3.7 = 1.3 so diesel is still cheaper bec it is more efficient.

However, things start to get muddled when you take into consideration the cost of the lpg kit and the amount of money I will have to add after selling my car to get an AUV in good condition. Then there is also comfort, speed, maintenance and a lot of other factors. Ang gulo can't decide.

If we just forget about the additional cost, lets say they equal out, is it worth getting a diesel if savings is only around 13,000 (10,000km a year * 1.3) a year?

[ghosthunter]

you have to include the maintenance cost of diesel engines and gasoline engines in a year. How much is a typical tune up and how often.

[woods]

Ran some figures:
Assume AUV consumes around 10 lkm/liter city, price of diesel 37
37 / 10 = 3.7 pesos per kilometer

Actual consumption of my cars 5 km/liter city, cost of lpg 25
25 / 5 = 5 pesos per kilometer

5 - 3.7 = 1.3 so diesel is still cheaper bec it is more efficient.

However, things start to get muddled when you take into consideration the cost of the lpg kit and the amount of money I will have to add after selling my car to get an AUV in good condition. Then there is also comfort, speed, maintenance and a lot of other factors. Ang gulo can't decide.

If we just forget about the additional cost, lets say they equal out, is it worth getting a diesel if savings is only around 13,000 (10,000km a year * 1.3) a year?

Also take into consideration that once converted to LPG ,fuel consumption will tend to increase.

For example , if you are running at 7 Km./Liter using Gasoline , once converted to LPG it will decrease to something like 4-5 km/liter.

The savings will then be manifested on the cost of fuel spent per kilometer.

Saving seems to be minimal since the lower cost of LPG was offset by the sudden increase in consumption.

[userfriendly]

Right. Forgot about that. So basing on Topgun's experience where he lost about 15%, I should be getting 4.25 km/liter.
So 25 / 4.25 = 5.88 pesos per liter - 3.7 pesos cost / km for diesel = 2.18 * 10000 kms = 21,800 pesos savings a year for diesel compared to lpg. So diesel is starting to look better.

I guess I have to try driving some crosswinds and adventures to find out if I will be happy with its performance. Last diesel car that I drove a lot was a 1968 benz, 200D. Its was old, slow, noisy, heavy, no power steering, broken 2nd gear, held together with welding and rust but built like a tank. It even had a glow plug that you had to pull a knob and wait to light up before starting. Old school! That thing was a beast to push start! I'm sure newer diesel rides will be a lot better.

[niky]

Well, even the ancient diesel in the Crosswind doesn't have a glowplug anymore... it's always "stick-the-key-in-and-turn-it-and-it-starts-right-away" (I'm like a broken record on this... it's one of the few things I love about the vehicle). Modern diesels are a long way from the glowplug-equipped clunkers of the 60's and 70's.

Coming from a Cefiro or Venture, the AUVs will seem very crude, slow, rough-riding and noisy, but they're utterly reliable and dependable. In fact, we're having a hard time deciding whether to trade in the Crosswind for an SUV right now... we'd rather have the SUV, but the Crosswind is so useful.

And durable. While there are endless horror stories about the exhaust on the Crosswind, the engine is indestructible. It's got no timing belt or chain (gear driven cams), no fancy injectors (like modern CRDis) and it's a very thick iron block.

We have three in the family/company. And while we've been through a lot of busted diesel van engines, even the oldest Highlander is still awaiting its first overhaul.

And thus, secondhand prices are pretty high. That's the only drawback to looking for one.

[theveed]

Agree ako kay Niky dito hehe

[userfriendly]

Coming from a Cefiro or Venture, the AUVs will seem very crude, slow, rough-riding and noisy, but they're utterly reliable and dependable.

Agreed! Test drove my brother in law's AT Crosswind and I agree 100% with the above statement. Feels like I'm driving a truck. May free massage pa! (sa ride ng crosswind hindi galing sa in law ko ha!) Is this typical of diesel AUV's? Not really sure that this is a car that I would like to drive or ride in daily. But as mentioned earlier its running costs can't be beat. No decision yet still looking.