Hyundai Grand Starex vs. Toyota Super Grandia

[kjcc0012]

Okay sir ang point ko lang naman is the BOSCH CRDI SYSTEM is far better than the Denso CRDI system. maliit ang makina pero ang lakas ng horsepower pti torque compare sa mga ksing laki niang makina ng denso. i know the difference of the LC from the VR but the thing is sa laki po ng makina ng LC ang lapit lng ng diperensya. Natural lang na mas maganda ang LC kc its a LC nga which will cost you 4.5M to have one. ang VR is 2M+ lng.


Yes, alam ko po na ang mga car manufacturers eh monomodify nila ang makina nila. tulad na lang ng ginawa ng MITSUBISHI sa 4D56 engine nila. yung sa ADVENTURE/L300 na 4D56 eh turbo diesel lng which produces 72ps. yung kinabit nila sa STRADA at Montero sport 4x2 na 2.5 4D56 eh turbo intercooler na crdi which produces 136ps na. denso po ang ginamit nila.

sa case naman ng Bosch ganito
yung hyundai engine na D4BH na nakakabit sa hyundai H100 98-02 model
2.5 D4BH turbo diesel produces i think 70-80ps po. pero nung inadopt po ng hyundai/kia yung CRDI System ng Bosch yung 2.5 na D4BH na crdi na at turbo intercooler na, naging 140ps npo sia na kinabit nila sa KIA SORENTO late model.

Denso CRDI 2.5 4D56 engine 72-136ps
Bosch CRDI 2.5 D4bh engine 70-140ps

yung sa innova naman na po ala na nga po yung intercooler turbo pero s consumption po eh ndi cla nagkalayo na ng Carens(base from DOE tests)pero sa lakas ng engine 102ps against sa 140ps ng carens.

basta po ang point ko lng. mas maganda ang bosch kaysa sa denso.
yung sa nissan navara na 174ps BOSCH crdi po yun

[kjcc0012]

pasenxa na po kung nakakahilo yung post ko. last na po yun. sori guys.

[SaberRider]

You fail to look at the more relevant feature of diesel engines.

The 3 liter v6 on the veracruz has these figures...
Maximum power 240.3 PS (237.0 bhp) (176.7 kW) * 3800 rpm

Maximum torque 450.0 Nm (332 ft·lb) (45.9 kgm) * 1750-3500 rpm

the 4.5 litre 1VD-FTV on the land cruiser on the other hand...
Maximum power 285.9 PS (282.0 bhp) (210.3 kW) * 3600 rpm

Maximum torque 650.0 Nm (479 ft·lb) (66.3 kgm) * 1600-2800 rpm

650?! That's enough to move a mountain. And if you're doubting its capacity to move a huge vehicle as the Land Cruiser, know that this is ALMOST DOUBLE the torque rating of the 5.4 liter v8 found on the massive Ford Expy.

the 200 Nm difference in torque isn't something to laugh at either. That's more than what most 2.5 liter pre-CRDi diesel engines can put out

besides, both maximum power and torque comes earlier for the landcruiser.

Sir, there is no replacement for displacement when it comes to torque. And this is what matters in real life, not horsepower (lalabas lang to kung gusto mong mangarera sa SCTEX). Just ask any diesel vehicle owner her in tsikot.

Regarding the "only 102 hp" on the 2.5 liter D-4D found on the IMV platform, take into account that this is a low pressure turbo without an intercooler.

Denso, Bosch... etc. etc. the technologies are there. But car manufacturers tune or detune engines to their needs

Ok, let's look at the facts here:

1) V8 4.5 liter TWIN TURBO Intercooler vs. a measly 3.0L V6. Gotta give credit to the small naturally aspirated V6 for coming up with that hp figure of 240ps whereas it took the Mitsubishi 2 turbos, a V8 engine, and a 4.5liter displacement just to get a 45hp advantage. Not to mention the miserly fuel economy it will achieve.

2) Ok, let's say walang intercooler yung d-4d that's why it's only making 102ps. If we add an intercooler will that automatically bump the hp to an extra 30+hp? I highly doubt that. You'll be lucky if it could make 10-15hp. Besides, most turbo crdi suvs are light turbo.

I think what sir kjcc0012 is trying to say is the great innovations made on the same platform. Whereas some manufacturers slap in bigger engines to gain hp/torque. Others would do somethings revolutionary instead. Like my new 2.2R Sorento. Just 2.2L of displacement but we had it tuned at Hyundai Korea to pump up it's stock 198hp to a very good 224hp. Kaya yan, it's all in the flexibility of the engine design. I'm pretty sure kaya rin yan ng Mitsu and other Jap companies, tinatamad lang siguro.

[scharnhorst]

*kjcc001
Hmmm. The horsepower figures are amazing, true. but as I had pointed out...

it's the torque that matters in diesel engines

Early, useable, torque. And the denso-equipped engines aren't deficient in that aspect.

Unless you get to near the redlines of your engines, you don't get your peak horsepower. Siguro kung taga Germany ka, and sa delimited autobahns ang routa mo, fine. Open the taps, experience the power.

but for day to day driving? I don't think kelangan parating pinapaabot sa 4000 rpm yung mga diesels natin mga sir.

let me quote sir niky on his post regarding the mighty 174 hp navara and the "piddling" 150 something hp ranger

The Navara has more power on paper, but it's still not as powerful as the Ranger 3.0. There's less response below 2000 rpm (even though the turbo supposedly spools up at 1800 rpm) and the "170 hp" version runs out of puff at 3500 rpm. The 3.0s still have a wider powerband and more useable power...

the powerband he's talking about is the torque "plateau" that can be seen on the dyno readings.

*SaberRider: the Veracruz CRDi comes with an intercooled Variable Geometry Turbocharger, which has an end effect similar to a twin turbo. it's not naturally aspirated

and yes, it's amazing what Hyundai/Kia has done to the 2.2R engine. Knocking on the Germans na talaga.

but as I said... it's all about the tuning. not the injector manufacturer. the technology is there.

case in point?

the 3.0 Ranger uses a bosch system, but it "only" produces 156 hp.

and if somebody is insane (or rich) enough to put a unichip, an intercooler, and a higher pressure variable geometry turbo (and God forbid, a water-methanol injection system) in a D-4D innova, I'm pretty sure it's going to obliterate a stock carens on the highway

the only complaint about denso (especially the D-4D system) was the trouble it had with our local diesels.

[scharnhorst]

*SaberRider: but still, kudos to the Korean marques for bringing cutting edge diesels to the Philippines at non-European prices.

you hear that, Toyota? Honda? Mitsubishi? Ford? Nissan? Knock knock! get your other diesel-powered vehicles here!

[Horsepower]

Just a little clarification, Navara uses Denso, according to tsikoteer Dieseldude of Central Diesel. Ranger has Bosch.

[Eriche]

guys, can we talk about GS and SG? based what on their specs....thanks

[whitebug45]

Well, you haven't seen the Japanese/American/European diesels OUTSIDE the Philippines.

If you're doubting the japanese diesel engines, look at the YDDTi on the Nissan Navara. 174 hp. on a 2.5 liter displacement.

on par with the 152 hp output of the 2.2 liter sta. fe

im sure u havent heard of the new tucson ix crdi evgt-r engine, its 2.0L that produces 184ps with 6speed tranny, same with the new santa fe crdi evgt-r engine which squeezes 200ps from a 2.2L engine 6speed tranny

_________________
:massmoon:
0922-820-4545 / 510-81-01

[locoroco777]

*kjcc001

Hmmm. The horsepower figures are amazing, true. but as I had pointed out...

it's the torque that matters in diesel engines

Well Then,

Please allow me to say this once again......GOD BLESS RUDOLF!! HAIL DIESEL!!w/ German Salute... I just can't stop myself on saying this when I hear the word TORQUE.....hehe


para inde naman OT...

I would choose the Starex over the Hiace...

for the reason that it has a better engine which is a 2.5 liter VGT compared to the hiace's 2.5 liter Turbo which I think is a little under powered considering its size....and a much more comfy interior...but for the roominess I think they're all just in the same level..

and another is that I feel more safer driving the starex for the reason that it has a front engine layout unlike with the hiace's under the seat engine...

but if you have a lot more money to spare....try looking in the LIMO edition of the GS....truly, a kick ass luxury van...

[Juan591]

HAHA! gUYS. Tanggapin na natin na kapag diesel Engines, mas maganda na ang koreans. Ang mga Hyundai/Kia/ adopted the BOSCH CRDI Technology ng Germany na unang nagdevelop ng CRDI kia mas maganda EUROPEAN Engineered eh. And Toyota/Mitsubishi DENSO CRDI Technology ng Japan.

Eto ang difference:

BOSCH DENSO
HYUNDAI Grand Starex CRDI 170ps VS. Toyota Super Grandia D4D 102ps
ang layo ng diperensya


Hyundai Sta.Fe 2.2 Engine lang pero kayang pumalo ng 200kph. Ang 3.0 na Toyota Fortuner hrap sa 180kph plng.

so kitang kita ang diperensya db? kaya Tanggapin ang katotohanan. haha

Trust me folks. I've tried it. s SCTEX at STAR TOLLWAY

Ganun ba? Bakit ang mga japanese brand, sariling turbo technology ang gamit nila, talagang made in japan, which is Denso. Eh bakit ang mga korean brand, ang turbo naman nila is Bosch, na hindi naman made in korea kung di made in germany at EUROPEAN engineered? Eh di naman european ang Hyundai/Kia eh.. KOREAN sila.

Of course gagawa ng paraan ang mga korean cars para mapahiya ang mga japanese. Tulad ng Santa Fe, dadagdagan nila ng mas maraming luxurious features para mas mabenta kesa sa Montero at Fortuner.