FORD FIESTA (hatch) vs HONDA JAZZ vs MAZDA 2

**tidus1203** · August 29th, 2010 07:23 PM

And even then the MZ3's resale is not as good as a same year Altis and Civic. Down by P70K-P100K on the asking...

**niky** · August 29th, 2010 10:17 PM

Same as the ES... not lower, actually... within the same asking range. There are high asking prices for some Civics, but there are also high asking prices for some Mazda3s. Corollas are lower for the most part than the other two, on average.

This doesn't represent true contract price, but unless you guys have statistics on average contract price (like average for at least twenty or so transactions for each car)... I doubt you have any more solid data than I do.

**[archie]** · August 30th, 2010 12:48 AM

in the used car industry there are no solid monetary values of range. it all depends on the condition of the car and the perception of the buyers. if they think that it is a fair value for the goods sold, that will determine the range of a certain car make and model. in deals ive seen in the past, once the model being sold is older than the current, people tend to lower its value.

as for the mazda 3, there is no new model released by the makers thats why its still holding its value. the sellers/buyers would say "modelo pa yung mazda 3"... "konti lang nagbago sa brandnew ngayon".

**niky** · August 30th, 2010 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by archie123456789

in the used car industry there are no solid monetary values of range. it all depends on the condition of the car and the perception of the buyers. if they think that it is a fair value for the goods sold, that will determine the range of a certain car make and model. in deals ive seen in the past, once the model being sold is older than the current, people tend to lower its value.

as for the mazda 3, there is no new model released by the makers thats why its still holding its value. the sellers/buyers would say "modelo pa yung mazda 3"... "konti lang nagbago sa brandnew ngayon".

It's all about what people want and like. Mazda3 asking ranges are the same as the "new look" Corolla Altis... so what's the advantage that Toyota has there? FD Civic asking ranges are higher (but the overlap is still considerable), naturally, because the Civic is a superior car. The ES wasn't.

**safeorigin** · August 30th, 2010 04:19 PM

ford fiesta makes me wish it had a slush box

**[archie]** · August 30th, 2010 04:44 PM

Originally Posted by niky

It's all about what people want and like. Mazda3 asking ranges are the same as the "new look" Corolla Altis... so what's the advantage that Toyota has there? FD Civic asking ranges are higher (but the overlap is still considerable), naturally, because the Civic is a superior car. The ES wasn't.

the advantage is how people perceive the old and the new. even if someone that knows cars so much would say, its the same as the old model... those people are a handful. the used car industry taps to those who know only what they see. its seldom that they rely on performance. the market of the used car industry usually seeks maintenance, brand, reliability.

the asking for the FD is not considerable for the overlap. simply put, what would you get, and 2006 FD or a 2005 ES? with mazda 3, they have no other model to ramp up to, thats why it holds its resale value.

**niky** · August 30th, 2010 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by archie123456789

the advantage is how people perceive the old and the new. even if someone that knows cars so much would say, its the same as the old model... those people are a handful. the used car industry taps to those who know only what they see. its seldom that they rely on performance. the market of the used car industry usually seeks maintenance, brand, reliability.

If all that mattered was the brand and cheap maintenance, 4AFE Corollas would have a higher resale value than Civic SiRs. Demand for old models is driven by what people want. And while they want reliable cars, there are other considerations... amongst them performance and style.

Originally Posted by archie123456789

the asking for the FD is not considerable for the overlap. simply put, what would you get, and 2006 FD or a 2005 ES? with mazda 3, they have no other model to ramp up to, thats why it holds its resale value.

The Mazda3 holds its value because it looks good and people want it. They want it despite the so-so fuel economy and sluggish performance. This means the Mazda2 has a good chance on the market, since now, it's not only good looking, but in terms of fuel economy and performance, it can match its competition on more level terms.

I wouldn't get the Civic ES because I don't really like it... except for the 2.0... which is an interesting car and fully loaded. So... no... I can't answer that question based on which car is newer. Besides... I'm peculiar. I think that the old-style body Forester XT is better than the new one, that the first Focus TDCi is a better buy than the Powershift (despite being less loaded) and that the first generation Jazz is a better car (more economical, better handling, nicer design) than the new one. But that's just me. I think the new Altis is much better than the old one, except for the nigglingly light steering.

**[archie]** · August 31st, 2010 02:04 AM

Originally Posted by niky

If all that mattered was the brand and cheap maintenance, 4AFE Corollas would have a higher resale value than Civic SiRs. Demand for old models is driven by what people want. And while they want reliable cars, there are other considerations... amongst them performance and style.

The Mazda3 holds its value because it looks good and people want it. They want it despite the so-so fuel economy and sluggish performance. This means the Mazda2 has a good chance on the market, since now, it's not only good looking, but in terms of fuel economy and performance, it can match its competition on more level terms.

I wouldn't get the Civic ES because I don't really like it... except for the 2.0... which is an interesting car and fully loaded. So... no... I can't answer that question based on which car is newer. Besides... I'm peculiar. I think that the old-style body Forester XT is better than the new one, that the first Focus TDCi is a better buy than the Powershift (despite being less loaded) and that the first generation Jazz is a better car (more economical, better handling, nicer design) than the new one. But that's just me. I think the new Altis is much better than the old one, except for the nigglingly light steering.

the SiR is holding its value because of the perception of the people. it has the reputation of being fast during its days and an icon. not that everybody usues it effectively but rather the reputation it got from its street racing days. some people that bought the SiR dont even know how to maximize vtec technology. the resale value of an SiR today can match an altis 02-04 (even 05J or E) because they think of it as being an icon and the altis is just another corolla. the "H" brand prevailed on that perspective alone.

the mazda 3 still is getting respect on the resale value as of now. its just because no new mazda 3 is out there. look at it this way... if the first generation ipod did not change style to itouch, there would be still a high resale value of the gadget. since its out modeled, you can get the 1st gen ipod for a thousand. same goes with the mazda, its not yet out modeled thats why it has a good resale value.

your one of the people that gauges on performance and not on the eye which is a rare sight on the used car industry. people and more specifically filipinos go for the brand and how people perceive them having it. in your case, seeing the old forester as being better than the current does not hold water in the used car industry. the new one will get a better resale value just because is a newer model.

**niky** · August 31st, 2010 02:27 AM

Originally Posted by archie123456789

the SiR is holding its value because of the perception of the people. it has the reputation of being fast during its days and an icon. not that everybody usues it effectively but rather the reputation it got from its street racing days. some people that bought the SiR dont even know how to maximize vtec technology. the resale value of an SiR today can match an altis 02-04 (even 05J or E) because they think of it as being an icon and the altis is just another corolla. the "H" brand prevailed on that perspective alone.

And basically that's what I said... whether or not it was a great car, people like it, for whatever reason, and this perception gives it value.

Originally Posted by archie123456789

the mazda 3 still is getting respect on the resale value as of now. its just because no new mazda 3 is out there. look at it this way... if the first generation ipod did not change style to itouch, there would be still a high resale value of the gadget. since its out modeled, you can get the 1st gen ipod for a thousand. same goes with the mazda, its not yet out modeled thats why it has a good resale value.

I'd still argue that. It's all about desirability. Old cellphones and gadgets are just that. Old. Old cars, on the other hand, elicit an emotional response from buyers and owners. This is why SiRs are still expensive. This is why EG Civic hatchbacks are ridiculously so. And this is why people crave Mazda Lantises, even if they aren't really categorically better than Mazda Familias, which sell for almost nothing in comparison.

Now, you may argue that it's all because the Mazda3 is current, while I argue that it's because it's good looking, but neither of us knows for sure whether this is the case or not, and we won't know until the Mazda3 has been replaced and we see where the values go in relation to other cars. So I guess we will just have to leave it at that?

Originally Posted by archie123456789

your one of the people that gauges on performance and not on the eye which is a rare sight on the used car industry. people and more specifically filipinos go for the brand and how people perceive them having it. in your case, seeing the old forester as being better than the current does not hold water in the used car industry. the new one will get a better resale value just because is a newer model.

Did I say that my view on the value of models was orthodox? I said my tastes were peculiar, and I did not give a definitive prescription that my views on the worth of a car would be predictive of what cars have better values.

And yet, there are cars that buck the trend... old Landcruisers... old Civics. (Again, the EP just isn't that desirable compared to other, more stylish Civics). It's all about what people want. And if the car is forgettable enough that they'll dump it come model change, the values will go down the toilet. If it's memorable and desirable, they won't. My personal opinion is: the Mazda3's resale should go down when the new one comes out... as the new one has better engines, better transmissions and better everything else. But: the new one has that silly smiley face on it, and the current one is kind of pretty... so it might not happen. I wouldn't want to make any predictions because people can be so fickle...

**safeorigin** · August 31st, 2010 01:27 PM

Reflexivity is discordant with equilibrium theory, which stipulates that markets move towards equilibrium and that non-equilibrium fluctuations are merely random noise that will soon be corrected. In equilibrium theory, prices in the long run at equilibrium reflect the underlying fundamentals, which are unaffected by prices. Reflexivity asserts that prices do in fact influence the fundamentals and that these newly-influenced set of fundamentals then proceed to change expectations, thus influencing prices; the process continues in a self-reinforcing pattern. Because the pattern is self-reinforcing, markets tend towards disequilibrium. Sooner or later they reach a point where the sentiment is reversed and negative expectations become self-reinforcing in the downward direction, thereby explaining the familiar pattern of boom and bust cycles

just quoting this in reference