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  1. Join Date
    Feb 2008
    There are still more FWD cars in the world and that design is still the dominant kind. Why? Its still the most practical and cost-effective setup for end users...

  2. Join Date
    Dec 2004
    The Avanza is still the best choice kung marami ka laging sakay!

  3. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Quote Originally Posted by XTO View Post
    simple example, shoot one of your FWD front wheel into a manhole submerged in 3 inch flood water at lowly 20 kph then compare your cost of repair against the weakest RWD.

    i've been driving since '86 that's why i am so familiar with RWD. that time, only the Mirage, Laser, Telstar and the last Corolla (before the "16valves") are the FWDs. what happen to them? they were outlived by the Starlets, Lancer boxtypes, galants and the coronas - all RWDs

    All I see is someone grasping at straws arguing at a topic that is besides the point.

    I would rather buy a car that handles well when driven on a day-to-day basis than choose a car based on what-if-the-wheel-falls-into-a-manhole-in-a-3inch-flood scenario which may not even happen within the vehicle's operation lifetime.

    The fact is the Avanza handles like a dog when going around corners even at moderate speeds, in the same corners, the Vios takes them at higher speeds without protest. That is a safety issue for me.

    You are more likely to suddenly steer the car to avoid a sudden obstacle than drop a wheel (dead-center) in a manhole in a 3 inch flood.

    BTW, a method to avoid dropping a wheel in a manhole in a flood is to simply follow the car ahead of you.

  4. #24
    these arguments are the reasons why AWD is created....

    OT na tayo...nasan na si TS? anu na kinuha nya? avanza ba or ung vios?

    baka chana CM8 kinuha nya...mas maporma pa than the avanza.....with change pa for other stuffs..

  5. Join Date
    Jun 2009
    I'm still here... thank you for the responses. Keep them coming.

    I get all your points.

    This made me wonder which of the two is cheaper to maintain, just the normal wear and tear of going through rough Manila roads? Which has better available parts on small shops so as not to depend on the casa too much?

  6. Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by cktlcmd View Post
    I'm still here... thank you for the responses. Keep them coming.

    I get all your points.

    This made me wonder which of the two is cheaper to maintain, just the normal wear and tear of going through rough Manila roads? Which has better available parts on small shops so as not to depend on the casa too much?
    maintenance cost is basically almost the same.

    The vios is locally manufactured and possibly have more parts available outside casa.

    During the 3 year or 100K warranty (which ever comes first), it will be best to have the unit casa maintained. Or at least up to the 5K PMS. Free labor for the 1K and 5K PMS.

    Reliability? IMO, the best person to ask this question are taxi drivers that uses the vios or avanza.

    The avanza has high ground clearance than sedans so it can cross higher level floods than sedans. the drawback it that the avanza has a higher center of gravity. lower center of gravity means better stability at high speeds. Any way, the avanza is not designed to be a speedy vehicle. it is more of a multi-purpose utility vehicle.

    in hi speed cornering, the avanza is that as stable as a sedan. the avanza J uses 185/70/R14 rims. the stock dunlop tires wobbles a lot, so this has a bad effect on the cornering speed. I am now using 205/50/R16. I can now corner a lot better and w/o the wobbling. It also helps that I have a rear stabilizer bar installed. Ride height is still stock.
    Last edited by meledson; January 12th, 2010 at 08:44 AM.

  7. Join Date
    Aug 2004
    I don't understand why you quoted a forum in the previous post... Forumers are a better source of info than... forumers?

    As for buzzle:
    Disadvantages of Rear Wheel Drive Cars
    Many car enthusiasts are firmly against RWD cars, and point out the following reasons for their inherent dislike of such vehicles.

    * Only someone who knows how to drive rear wheel drive cars can handle the vehicle effectively. Average drivers find it difficult to maneuver these cars.
    That's bull. Despite GH's concerns about the safety of the Avanza... driven normally at below the threshold of grip, it's not much different from the Vios. Normal drivers will have difficulty in hard driving or in harsh conditions, but 99% of the time, there's little difference. In fact, the "tippy" feeling of the Avanza may cause drivers to drive slower.

    Advantages of Rear Wheel Drive Cars
    Along with these factors, there are other reasons why many people prefer to drive RWD cars.

    * Since all the auto parts are spread out over a wide area, the repair and maintenance costs of RWD cars are relatively lower. Their repair does not require complicated disassembly and uses lesser specialized tools.
    Specialized tools? Bull. The tools needed to maintain a FWD car are the same as those needed to maintain a RWD car. On older FWD cars, you can reach all the auxiliary units from the top. On newer FWD cars, items are harder to reach not because the cars are FWD, but because the manufacturers choose to package them more compactly.

    Let's see you try to change all the sparkplugs on an E150 without dismantling half the interior.

    Or even try to check the oil or battery on an L300 without making your passengers get out of the car. :hysterical:

    I was tickled when I looked under the hood of a Space-Gear (rear drive) yesterday... trying to help someone out with a dead battery (turns out the alternator was kaput, too). The battery was halfway under the windshield and the engine was buried under the dashboard. It would be incredibly difficult to do the types of maintenance I do on my Lynx on that car.

    * There is no presence of 'torque steer' in RWD cars, vis a vis FWD cars. The presence of this effect in FWD cars causes the car to shift slowly towards the right side at high speeds, owing to the difference in length of the shafts that connect the engine to the wheels.
    Depends on the power, depends on the car and depends on the driveshaft. Again, this is not a function of the car being front-wheel drive, and more of a function of the engine lay-out and drive-shaft design. An increasing number of modern FWD cars are now using equal length drive-shafts to prevent this (hell, the Isuzu Impulse used this as far back as the 80's), and you'd be very hard pressed to see this effect in many modern cars that still have unequal length shafts, anyway... as you can take your hands off the wheels on a straight road and still have the car going straight.

    Actually... it's a misconception that this effect happens at high speeds. (and this point alone makes the article complete bull...) it happens when the engine is sending a lot of torque into the drive-axles. Which it doesn't... 99% of the time.

    And... no torque steer? Maybe not... but if you have a powerful rear-driver with an LSD, the rear end will go sideways quite easily... if that's not torque steering the car, I don't know what it is...


    When I hit a 6" deep (sharp!) pothole in a FWD car, this is the damage I get:

    Tie-rod, bushings, mags.

    Which are the same things that will be damaged in a RWD car of the same weight.

    I have never, ever, ever had to replace a CV Joint or drive-axle due to damage. Just due to normal wear and tear.

    It takes putting 300-400 hp through a part designed for merely 150 hp to break a drive-axle. By which point, you're also shredding the gearbox, whether FWD or RWD.

    Our Crosswinds are less sensitive to such damage not because they're RWD... but because they're trucks. Big trucks. Big trucks with prehistoric suspensions and big beefy undercarriages.

    The Avanza... is not. It's a small car. A unibody car. One with McPherson struts in front... just like the Vios. And a solid rear axle... just like the Vios. Except the Vios's is a torsion beam, and the Avanza's is a live axle. Any suspension damage that you're likely to sustain in a Vios over a pothole will be exactly the same in the Avanza. Any damage sufficient to wreck a Vios drive-axle will tear the suspension mountings out of the Avanza, too.

    The argument is moot.

    Quote Originally Posted by alwayz_yummy View Post
    these arguments are the reasons why AWD is created....

    OT na tayo...nasan na si TS? anu na kinuha nya? avanza ba or ung vios?

    baka chana CM8 kinuha nya...mas maporma pa than the avanza.....with change pa for other stuffs..
    Actually... when you damage any wheel in an AWD car, you affect the drivetrain at that portion. And AWD/4WD cars need more gear oil and differential oil than FWD cars.

    Again, though... it'll take a whole lot of crashing to damage those parts... by which point, the car will be a complete write-off, damaged drivetrain or not.
    Last edited by niky; January 12th, 2010 at 12:24 PM.

    Ang pagbalik ng comeback...

  8. Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by XTO View Post
    for me, forumers are more knowledgeable than those who just "buy" because they need to and the least they have no other choice. forumers are here to know and to give something they know as well. issues or not, that could give help to readers in need. but for those who are "so knowledgeable" i don't think so
    What I'm asking is:

    How are those forumers any more knowledgeable than the forumers here?

    Just because they're foreigners? I've been a member of the automotive forums for over a decade... ever since I joined Nissanbayan and Nissanforums (back when Mike Kojima, tuning and suspension guru, was still active, we actually used to PM each other over the political debates)... and a lot of what's posted on US and UK forums is total and utter crap.

    Unless I know the history of the poster and I know that he isn't talking out of his rear end about a topic he knows nothing about, I won't believe him.

    The guys who gain my respect on the US and UK forums are those who don't make up bull reasons as to why something is "better" than the other without knowing much about the subject.

    since your are mentioning vans, well they are different. eversince, because of experience i will also never get a van with engines underneath the front seats. it has been discussed i think in '05 or 06 here and i know many were offended but that's just me. mahirap kalikutin and madungis gawin ang van with that engine set up even with extreme carefulness.

    remember the introduction of the MB100 (FWD) in the 90's? it was selling like hotcakes because of its size, price, and the MB badge but after a few years it was discontinued. Why?
    Because it was Indonesian. The plastics used were terrible and the mechanical quality was so-so. The gearbox didn't have the proper gearing for climbing, so it was useless in the mountains. It could have been worse. It could have been a Vanette (which can't even climb a steep parking ramp in first gear... even with a running start).

    well it has been an endless debate on automotive forums throughout the internet.

    In the end, it depends on what you want from your car. If it's performance, you're looking at rwd. If you're indifferent, perhaps looking for a small car with greater interior volume, it's front wheel drive for you. Over the last 20 years, technology has improved both layouts, reducing the advantages of fwd to a point where rwd is a viable option for most people. Ultimately, you've got more choice, and when more choice is offered we all win.

    Like I was saying... the earlier quote you posted had an article saying RWD was trickier for the average driver to handle. Which is patently untrue for most RWD vehicles driven at normal speeds... and is more affected by suspension design than drivetrain layout.

    But this one also fails to mention that the tech advances go both ways... Technology has also reduced the performance handicap of front-wheel drive versus rear-wheel drive. In the end... a rear-wheel drive racing car is usually superior, but we're not driving racing cars. Over a challenging road, a good front-wheel drive sports car can outperform a good rear-wheel drive sports car of the same weight and power (case in point: Focus RS versus 350Z) because it's more predictable to drive.

    Ang pagbalik ng comeback...

  9. Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Back to the question:

    Quote Originally Posted by XTO View Post
    what if the sole portion hit is one of your front fender/wheel? i don't think the damage will go thru the engine, manifold etc. also, say both FWD and RWD got into a manhole at any speed? sensitivity of FWD will always be on top not to mention the type of road here
    So based on what have been discussed, the above mentioned "concerns" are baseless because there is no advantage in either the Vios & Avanza.

  10. #30
    on my maintenance point of view (since ito ang pinagtatalunan nyung una)..since both are per experiece of having a MT nissan maxima, AT kia pride, MT trucks and AT-4wd delica and liteace....and now this AT awd xtrail 250...

    on the MT: the labor on changing the clutch disc, pressure plate and release bearing is cheaper and easier on a RWD/ RWd-based 4WD vehicle than a FWD/FWD-based AWD one... kasi alisin mo lang prop-shaft, then down the tranny, madudukot mo na....

    e sa FWD/FWD-based AWD, kailangan mo pang alisin ang axles...which means na dapat alisin mo ang wheels, brake assy, steering... so aside sa tranny, magpapa-camber-job ka ba!

    pero ako pipili, the more versitile avanza ang pipiliin ko...lalo na 3000 lang difference... both are 1.3L hello, it is not designed for speed!

    in my case, why xtrail 250x pa--kasi ako meticuloso sa interior features, gusto ko versitile, lalo na sa siyempre spirited driver and seasonal offroader sa cSUV fits me..sayang lang walang MT 250x dito....

    ang pangit lang sa avanza j-5seter is the cheap, almost bare interior, and avail only in white! pero kung avanza pinili mo, contakin mo lang any of the avanza club member, i know na meron sa kanila nagbebenta ng interior trimmings including power it would be like the 1.5G's interior, only that, you seat 5 and 1.3L.....
    Last edited by alwayz_yummy; January 13th, 2010 at 10:05 AM.

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Avanza 1.3 J M/T (5 seater)  or  Vios 1.3 J M/T  ...  which would you choose?