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  1. Join Date
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    #71
    Quote Originally Posted by blink21me View Post
    I didn't go through the 4 pages, but let me chime in on this one...

    Nothing beats the "luxo-ness" of the European Cars, even the previous Car and Driver editors say that when they review the future Jap cars like Supra, 350Z, S2k, and all... Japanese cars are still trying to catch up with the Euro's when it comes to styling, feel and comfy...
    I agree with this, assuming that you're comparing the top of the line Euro vs. the top of the line Jap. Or perhaps the entry level Euro vs. the entry level Jap.

    Realistically, however, since at current prices, the entry level Euro is as or more expensive than the top of the line Jap, alot are made to think twice about what to purchase. It's probably unfair to make a comparison of a base 316 vs a top of the line Camry since they're priced in the same range. But anyways, that's what makes the choice interesting ;) Hehehe!

  2. Join Date
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    #72
    *afrasay


    Got it already.






    :fly:


    Edit no problem :cool:

  3. Join Date
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    #73
    Quote Originally Posted by n2knee View Post
    nothing beats the "thud" sound when closing the doors on a luxury euro car i give you that, but have you noticed who sponsors car and driver? mostly euro car makers.
    I don't think that affects what editors would write on the magazine. However, I was reading a Modified Mag earlier at work today and the article about the previous Tme Attack in the Streets of ButtonWillow, the author, I don't know his name or anything, mentions about hating (in a having-fun-way) the winner of the unlimited category, a Porsche GT3 cup car and the owner/driver, because according to him, "he has such a car and on top of that, he knows how to drive it. Wait until we get to bring out some big Japanese cars when they're ready". No Japanese car came close to the Porsche. As far as I remember the second place was even 3 seconds or so behind. I wish I could officially quote it...

    Anyways, just take a look at the situation like this; any car has it's up and down sides... that's how it is, arguments and debates could come from anywhere.

  4. Join Date
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    #74
    Quote Originally Posted by n2knee View Post
    nothing beats the "thud" sound when closing the doors on a luxury euro car i give you that, but have you noticed who sponsors car and driver? mostly euro car makers.
    oh and btw, the thud sound goes on the Jap cars. Euro cars have a solid, stable, and strong sound when closing the doors, even my 10 year old one do. Japs have that clunking sound, rattles and such, and the worst is when the window is rolled down you hear it banging against something within the panel...

  5. Join Date
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    #75
    It's actually an inverse relationship. Car&Driver loves these cars, and it encourages these manufacturers to put more ads in Car&Driver.

    It's also a demographic thing. The kind of people who read Car&Driver are usually older and more educated, and usually richer than the kind who read Sport Compact Car. (No, I'm not saying SCC readers are young and dumb... not all of them, at least... ...I have tremendous respect for Dave Coleman and Mike Kojima... mga idol!) Thus, Car&Driver gets ads for more premium sedans and SUVs. SCC gets ads for (duh) compact cars and imports.

    And magazines like Robb's Report and Fortune get ads for even classier cars, like Ferraris and Bugattis, while Women's mags get ads for "family" cars. Simply, the writers like the cars, thus, the audience of the mag does, too... thus, run the ads there, boss, we've got gold!

    Yeah, the argument can be endless, but the question still remains:

    Is the lowliest of Beemers better than the cream of the Toyota crop?

    Or, would you pick a Fortuner (the cheapest Toyota SUV) over a Santa Fe (the most expensive Hyundai SUV of the moment)?

    Or would the answer be: "Anything! As long as it ain't a damn Toyota!!!" :hysterical:

    Ang pagbalik ng comeback...

  6. Join Date
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    #76
    Quote Originally Posted by niky View Post
    Or, would you pick a Fortuner (the cheapest Toyota SUV) over a Santa Fe (the most expensive Hyundai SUV of the moment)?
    Uy, another comparo ;)

  7. Join Date
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    #77
    Quote Originally Posted by IMm29 View Post
    I agree with this, assuming that you're comparing the top of the line Euro vs. the top of the line Jap. Or perhaps the entry level Euro vs. the entry level Jap.

    Realistically, however, since at current prices, the entry level Euro is as or more expensive than the top of the line Jap, alot are made to think twice about what to purchase. It's probably unfair to make a comparison of a base 316 vs a top of the line Camry since they're priced in the same range. But anyways, that's what makes the choice interesting ;) Hehehe!
    you know why? IMHO because since the start, German manufacturers have been superior over the Japanese's in every way, and as time goes by, the Germans' credibility/reputation have just been established pretty well over 100% when compared to Japs. That's where the Jap's try to catch up in. Nissan created Infiniti, Honda created Acura, Toyota created Lexus, etc, all because in people's mind, BMW/Mercedes/Porsche/or any European car is superior than any Honda/Toyota/Nissan regardless ~you can't erase that off of people's perception, it is so establish that they take it as a fact, as a part of the real truth may I say... I remember when the Acura just released the new Acura RL, Americans looked at it in a way that "Japanese have built a car that would finally match the luxurious 7-series"...
    Last edited by blink21me; November 9th, 2006 at 06:57 PM.

  8. Join Date
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    #78
    Quote Originally Posted by blink21me View Post
    oh and btw, the thud sound goes on the Jap cars. Euro cars have a solid, stable, and strong sound when closing the doors, even my 10 year old one do. Japs have that clunking sound, rattles and such, and the worst is when the window is rolled down you hear it banging against something within the panel...
    Yup, I've had cars like that, too.

    But this is starting to change. No, the sound of a door closing on a Vios isn't quite like a 3-series, but the sound of the door closing on a Camry isn't as bad as it is on old Japanese cars.

    Trust me, I've got one. My Lynx (Mazda Protege) sounds like a tin can when it closes. On the Ford Focus, though, the door sounds like it's made of solid steel wrapped in rubber. It's solid like no American economy sedan I've driven before... so, it's not a Jap... it's still a cheap car! I mean, look at the damn Ford-cheap plastic!

    You can't just label a car cheap because it's Japanese, American, or whatever, anymore... a lot of what we used to see on "premium" Europeans is filtering down to average cars... heralded, actually, by the increasing weight of "cheap" cars, as they gain sound insulation, more solid construction and sophistication.

    The question, again, is: Is the best luxury car of the economy makers better than the simplest economy car of the luxury car makers?

    Ang pagbalik ng comeback...

  9. Join Date
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    #79
    Quote Originally Posted by blink21me View Post
    you know why? IMHO because since the start, German manufacturers have been superior over the Japanese's in every way, and as time goes by, the Germans' credibility have just been established pretty well over 100% when compared to Japs. That's where the Jap's try to catch up in. Nissan created Infiniti, Honda created Acura, Toyota created Lexus, etc, all because in people's mind, BMW/Mercedes/Porsche/or any European car is superior than any Honda/Toyota/Nissan regardless ~you can't erase that off of people's perception, it is so establish that they take it as a fact, as a part of the real truth may I say... I remember when the Acura just released the new Acura RL, Americans looked at it in a way that "Japanese have built a car that would finally match the luxurious 7-series"...
    You mean, at the start, they were superior in every way. Nowadays, even the Germans are starting to play catch up in terms of reliability, or perceived reliability. They still have the edge in sports cars and super-luxury cars, but there are noteworthy Japanese entries in those classes. (I think C&D may soon fall under the thrall of the Infiniti M and G cars, although, by their admission, they don't quite have more than 8/10ths of what Bimmer sports sedans do...)

    People can't accept a Lexus or an Acura as a luxury alternative to a BMW or a Merc, true... they're more of a luxury alternative to cheaper Japanese cars...

    But in the same way, people can't conceive as BMWs or Mercs of late as being as reliable as Toyotas and Hondas. People think that ANYTHING made by the two will last forever (but you and I know this just ain't true).

    Nowadays, BMW is starting to claim back some of that reliability (I think, I'm not sure how well MB is doing...), but Lexus and Acura have made themselves a force to be reckoned with in the minds of the non-enthusiast consumers... those who value "reliability" over "fun" when buying cars.

    Yes, people are always going to look at BMWs or MBs as status symbols, and something above the average Japanese car, but sometimes, more pragmatic (read: dull) reasons govern the purchase of a "luxury" vehicle.
    Last edited by niky; November 9th, 2006 at 07:02 PM.

    Ang pagbalik ng comeback...

  10. Join Date
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    #80
    Quote Originally Posted by blink21me View Post
    you know why? IMHO because since the start, German manufacturers have been superior over the Japanese's in every way, and as time goes by, the Germans' credibility have just been established pretty well over 100% when compared to Japs. That's where the Jap's try to catch up in. Nissan created Infiniti, Honda created Acura, Toyota created Lexus, etc, all because in people's mind, BMW/Mercedes/Porsche/or any European car is superior than any Honda/Toyota/Nissan regardless ~you can't erase that off of people's perception, it is so establish that they take it as a fact, as a part of the real truth may I say... I remember when the Acura just released the new Acura RL, Americans looked at it in a way that "Japanese have built a car that would finally match the luxurious 7-series"...
    Well, I agree with you that the benchmark in "superiority" are German cars. I share that same perception, and I know a lot of other peeps do, too. Niky earlier described the previous gen Camry to have close to Mercedes-like ride quality, and you also mentioned about the Acura RL and 7 series. Clearly, the Germans are the benchmarks.

    Bad side of being superior and credible is the entry price. Oh well.

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2006 Toyota Camry vs. 2006 BMW 3 Series