Which 2-liter Car to Buy?

[jut703]

*jut703 - are you looking at the Fiesta 1.5L NA or the 1.0L Ecoboost?

Neither. I just included the Ecoboost as comparison for bnew vs secondhand. Too pricey for me.


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[niky]

What about the '06-'08 Ford Focus TDCi MT?
Pros:
- FAST (0-100 in 9.5s, no sweat reaching 200, making it as fast as the Mz6 and faster than the Mz3)

About 207 or so, stock... 240 fully modified. But that guy who *kept* doing 240 blew a turbo. 0-100 in 8.5 seconds. The dual clutch about 8.9 if you disable traction control. (And I've drag-launched this car many, many, many, many, MANY times. )

- VERY FRUGAL (10 km/L in city driving, and it's a diesel)

Depends on traffic. Worst I've seen/heard is around 8 km/l. But yes, typically, 10 in moderate traffic. New diesels are more frugal, however. New Jetta 2.0 does 25 km/l on the highway.

- Manual transmission (more engaging and enjoyable for me, no Powershift issues)

Mahal nga lang dual-mass flywheel. Puwede though mag-convert or mag-overhaul. You'll have to ask around Ford Club.

- Good handling (more nose-heavy than the Mz3, but otherwise similar since they share the same platform)

Yup.

Cons:
- Ugly rims (needs to be upgraded to 18" with 1.5" lowering springs)
- Ugly interior (no choice but to live with it)
- Not as prestigious as a Mazda 6

Yes. Yes. Last one... not really a problem for me... I actually like the understated looks better than the Mazda6 2.3 (The Mazda6 whose looks I like is the second gen.)

Things to note in terms of maintenance...

The Mazda3, reputedly mahina yung front shocks... Focus has better shocks (diesel variant uses heavier duty suspension than regular Focus... which already has a better suspension than the Mazda3. Also brake pads are expensive for both Mazda and Focus, but IMHO, the Focus has better brakes. (though it is much heavier in diesel form)

The Focus' main problem areas are:

1. Flywheel... the clutch is absolutely fantastic in terms of durability, but the flywheel is a consumable item. Since it's dual mass, you can't reface it like an ordinary flywheel. Again, you will have to ask at FCP about rebuilding it or sourcing a replacement outside casa.

2. Turbo... if the previous owner was an idiot... goodbye turbo. Replacement is expensive, but there are places that can rebuild for about 30k pesos. Which is pretty reasonable.

Mazda6: No idea... not enough owners. Don't doubt suspension parts and bushings will cost more.

-

I would love a TDCi MT secondhand... if you find one unmolested in good condition, it's a great car.

Still... Civic 2.0...

[jut703]

Thanks for the input Niky. As much as I like the Civic 2.0 as well, it's too expensive and it's not cheap to run so you can't recoup it. Plus, manuals are very few and far in between.

I agree with your point that the clutch/turbo will depend on how much the previous owner took care of it. Which makes me think this is such a risky proposition. At best, the Focus will be about 40-80k cheaper in 5 years compared to the 3. However, it's quite unlikely that the clutch and/or turbo won't begin acting up during my ownership. And in case I decide to make it a keeper, the 3 will be much simpler to maintain in the long run. That said, the TDCi I'm looking at right now has 60k kms on clock, which is pretty young.

Earlier today I was already leaning towards the Focus because it's so damn fast and practical that I can overlook its ugly duckling styling. But then the higher maintenance risk practically erases its practicality in the long run.

My heart still beats for the 6, but I wouldn't feel so bad settling for the 3 just to lessen running costs a little. The Focus is really a decision of the mind alone and I'm still having a hard time liking it..


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[niky]

Having driven all three...

The Mazda3 is the least fun to drive. Not saying it isn't fun... but the steering isn't as good as the other two, and... four-speed automatic... it just doesn't have the goods to go.

The Mazda6 has the best steering and the most "buzz" when it comes to hooning around. Again, though... AT only. So you've got the best steering on the market (better than the NC Miata), but you don't have that fine control over your speed.

That generation Focus has fantastic steering. Not quite as sharp as the Mazdas, but it has that sublime touch you get with the great ones, like the dual-wishbone Accord or the Lynx.

Hard decision... personally, I'd go for the Ford, because at least I know what to watch for and where to get it... and given how I drive nowadays (strict 80 km/h... only once a week past 160 km/h... no heavy braking... proper warm up and cool down... etcetera), I can make it last a long time.

[jut703]

Hard decision... personally, I'd go for the Ford, because at least I know what to watch for and where to get it... and given how I drive nowadays (strict 80 km/h... only once a week past 160 km/h... no heavy braking... proper warm up and cool down... etcetera), I can make it last a long time.

Even if it has the ugliest interior among the 3? I can't imagine being happy driving it on a daily basis even if it's a thrifty, quick manual. Only my pocket will be happy, but even that's uncertain because turbos are expensive to replace.

At least with the Mz3, I know I'll be happy to use it as a daily driver, even if it's not as quick as the other 2. Replacing shocks isn't as painful as a turbo/intercooler replacement.

I'm fairly certain the Mz6 will bring the most smiles to my face, but maintaining a gas-guzzling midsizer seems very impractical.

There are some good Focuses and 3s available in OLX right now, but I feel like I should wait just a bit longer to stumble upon a decent 6 first just to be sure...



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[jut703]

The Mazda3, reputedly mahina yung front shocks... Focus has better shocks (diesel variant uses heavier duty suspension than regular Focus... which already has a better suspension than the Mazda3. Also brake pads are expensive for both Mazda and Focus, but IMHO, the Focus has better brakes. (though it is much heavier in diesel form)

The Focus' main problem areas are:

1. Flywheel... the clutch is absolutely fantastic in terms of durability, but the flywheel is a consumable item. Since it's dual mass, you can't reface it like an ordinary flywheel. Again, you will have to ask at FCP about rebuilding it or sourcing a replacement outside casa.

2. Turbo... if the previous owner was an idiot... goodbye turbo. Replacement is expensive, but there are places that can rebuild for about 30k pesos. Which is pretty reasonable.

Mazda6: No idea... not enough owners. Don't doubt suspension parts and bushings will cost more.

I researched on these usual maintenance bits for the said cars. The flywheel of the Focus costs anywhere from 30-50k, and most folks over at FCP recommend against converting to single-mass. Turbo would be about 50k again.

In comparison, the Mazda 3's shocks cost under 4k each. The Mazda 6 would probably be around 6-8k.

Pads for any of the three would probably be around 2k.

Either way, it seems that maintaining either of the Mazdas is a less risky proposition than a potentially overused Focus. Of course, this is assuming that the clutch/turbo will fail. What are the chances of that happening for a 70,000-150,000 km car?


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[[archie]]

It really depends on how it's being used.

Turbo is a big worry for the focus. It's not cheap to maintain because you need to be religious on change oils. Burnt motor oil does nothing good for the turbo turbine.

If it's used regularly and not at insane speeds, it's going to last. But in all reality, one turbine might differ even on the same specs and made.

150k mileage... It's a toss up. With people I know who are boosted, some last long than others regardless of how expensive.