Which 2-liter Car to Buy?

[jut703]

For a few days now, I've been pondering on the idea of getting a secondhand car. Main reasons for buying are:
1) So I can leave my other car (Ranger) in the province, fly back to Manila and have something to use
2) So that my siblings who are about to enter college will have something to use.

My top 3 needs are the ff:
1. Not a headache to maintain - expensive parts are okay as long as I don't have to replace them often
2. Fun to drive (preferably fast) - basically something that can hold its own in Tanay, and preferably can do 0-100 kph in about 10 seconds
3. Looks respectable - something that wouldn't look to shabby even when parked beside brand new cars

Budget is in the range of 200-250k.

With that, here are my top 2 contenders:

1. '98-'02 Honda Accord VTI/VTI-L MT (170-280k)
Pros:
+ Fast (148 or 157 hp and VTEC powahhh and rare Honda torque) with solid suspension
+ Looks timeless and elegant - to me, the 6th-gen Accord looks more luxurious than most compacts/sub-compacts today
+ Solid build quality - haven't heard any major complaints with this model of the Accord
+ Complete features - ABS, airbags, leather seats, spacious interior
+ Relatively cheap - cheaper than EK and ES Civics, even cheaper than some Type-Z Cities

Cons:
- Thirsty (expecting 5.5-7 km/L even with the manual)
- Midsize parts (suspension, transmission and other major components) could be expensive

2. '03-'05 Ford Lynx RS (200-300k)
Pros:
+ Fast and torquey, with good suspension and brakes
+ Can do 8-9 km/L, as good as 90's 1.6 econoboxes
+ Ages well - to me it looks sporty but not ricey, and it's subtle enough not to be an eyesore even after a decade
+ Complete features - ABS, airbags, projector headlamps and a moonroof
+ Relatively new
+ It's a Lynx - which means replacement parts are priced like a compact (as long as parts are shared with the GSi and Ghia)

Cons:
- It's a Lynx - which makes me question its durability compared to a Honda/Toyota (remember, in the 90s, build quality between brands varied greatly, and this car was designed in the 90s)
- Slightly more expensive than the Accord

Other cars that I've been considering:
1. AE101 Corolla 1.6 GLi - cheap to run, relatively fuel efficient, 4A-FE is fast enough, but this is such an old car and is only a few thousands cheaper than a newer, faster, more luxurious Accord
2. B14 Exalta STA/SLA - relatively new, very cheap, but only comes mostly in automatic, and friends who owned this car all had electrical problems
3. Mazda 3 2.0R - really handsome, much newer than everything else in the list, great to drive, but of course, a hundred grand more expensive.

I'd like to hear what you guys think, and am very open to suggestions. Thanks!

[Egan101]

I have a 6th gen Accord (2001 Accord VTi-L 2.3L AT) and I can give you my overall outlook on it. I am happy with it as it strikes good balance between comfort and performance plus the benefit of a more simple approach in terms of operation for a late 90s era design.

My normal daily route (Sucat-Makati-Taguig and back) takes me around 50 km and I usually average 6 km/L using SeaOil Extreme97 (and I have a lead foot!). I get better FC when cruising thru SLEX and I can do 9 km/L on highway driving. The MT models will do better in terms of FC. When I was on stock 15" wheels using 195/65/15 tires, my FC was a bit better at 7 km/L. It went down to 6 km/L when I put on 17" wheels with 225/45/17 tires. However, traction and grip was better with the bigger/wider tires.

The car is powerful and responsive compared to the usual compacts. If you like to floor that pedal, you can easily hit that redline. The VTEC kicks in when you hit between 3000 to 3500 rpm, then another kick when you hit 5000 rpm all the way to redline just above 6000 rpm. Torque is plenty at below 2k rpm and more past 3k rpm. Easy cruising at 80 kmh will peg the tach at just a bit below 2000 rpm while at 100 kmh, it will be around 2200 rpm. I tried 93RON fuels and the cruising rpm tends to go higher so I just stick with SeaOil Extreme97 or UniOil's 95RON fuel (not to mention they are cheaper yet are Euro4 compliant).

The steering feel is firm but very responsive. The suspension is quite good and holds up well compared to compacts (I never had problems with busted bushings even with the bigger wheels). It even rides better than the 2009 City 1.5E that I use once in a while. You can easily lower the car and still not compromise the ride and handling due to its double wishbone suspension, just make sure to use proper lowering springs and stiffer shocks (or just use coilovers when lowering it with 18" or 19" wheels).

This Accord model has simple electronics and more like the Civic EK's. The VTi-L has ABS and comes standard with 4-wheel disc brakes. It also has dual front airbags. The VTi model comes with clothe-covered seats and some VTi models do not have ABS though (as I have seen in my mechanic's shop).

Fluid maintenance (PS, tranny, brake) is the same like with every Honda model of its age. Normal oil change uses 5L. I use a semi-sythetic blend oil (10w40 or 5w40) and change it every 5k km. I use NGK Platinum spark plugs and change it every 10k km along with the air filter. These are quite basic needs and will not be that much to spend for.

Unless you have a broken tranny or engine, then you will do just fine. The most expensive repair I did was when the aircon compressor needed to be replaced and I spent 18k for everything (compressor, dryer, expansion valve, O-rings, flushing, and labor). Aside from that, I just follow the maintenance cycle prescribed by Honda and I have Mel Casaba as my mechanic. For parts, I go to Alabang Parts or Mahle or some other place who can give a better price. For fluids, I get them from Honda or thru a Sulit dealer (spugen) or usual shops/dealers for engine oil.

[jut703]

I have a 6th gen Accord (2001 Accord VTi-L 2.3L AT) and I can give you my overall outlook on it. I am happy with it as it strikes good balance between comfort and performance plus the benefit of a more simple approach in terms of operation for a late 90s era design.

My normal daily route (Sucat-Makati-Taguig and back) takes me around 50 km and I usually average 6 km/L using SeaOil Extreme97 (and I have a lead foot!). I get better FC when cruising thru SLEX and I can do 9 km/L on highway driving. The MT models will do better in terms of FC. When I was on stock 15" wheels using 195/65/15 tires, my FC was a bit better at 7 km/L. It went down to 6 km/L when I put on 17" wheels with 225/45/17 tires. However, traction and grip was better with the bigger/wider tires.

The car is powerful and responsive compared to the usual compacts. If you like to floor that pedal, you can easily hit that redline. The VTEC kicks in when you hit between 3000 to 3500 rpm, then another kick when you hit 5000 rpm all the way to redline just above 6000 rpm. Torque is plenty at below 2k rpm and more past 3k rpm. Easy cruising at 80 kmh will peg the tach at just a bit below 2000 rpm while at 100 kmh, it will be around 2200 rpm. I tried 93RON fuels and the cruising rpm tends to go higher so I just stick with SeaOil Extreme97 or UniOil's 95RON fuel (not to mention they are cheaper yet are Euro4 compliant).

The steering feel is firm but very responsive. The suspension is quite good and holds up well compared to compacts (I never had problems with busted bushings even with the bigger wheels). It even rides better than the 2009 City 1.5E that I use once in a while. You can easily lower the car and still not compromise the ride and handling due to its double wishbone suspension, just make sure to use proper lowering springs and stiffer shocks (or just use coilovers when lowering it with 18" or 19" wheels).

This Accord model has simple electronics and more like the Civic EK's. The VTi-L has ABS and comes standard with 4-wheel disc brakes. It also has dual front airbags. The VTi model comes with clothe-covered seats and some VTi models do not have ABS though (as I have seen in my mechanic's shop).

Fluid maintenance (PS, tranny, brake) is the same like with every Honda model of its age. Normal oil change uses 5L. I use a semi-sythetic blend oil (10w40 or 5w40) and change it every 5k km. I use NGK Platinum spark plugs and change it every 10k km along with the air filter. These are quite basic needs and will not be that much to spend for.

Unless you have a broken tranny or engine, then you will do just fine. The most expensive repair I did was when the aircon compressor needed to be replaced and I spent 18k for everything (compressor, dryer, expansion valve, O-rings, flushing, and labor). Aside from that, I just follow the maintenance cycle prescribed by Honda and I have Mel Casaba as my mechanic. For parts, I go to Alabang Parts or Mahle or some other place who can give a better price. For fluids, I get them from Honda or thru a Sulit dealer (spugen) or usual shops/dealers for engine oil.

Thanks for the in-depth review Egan. Those are very real yet also very encouraging words for a prospective Accord buyer.

6 km/L is pretty bad though for a route that includes SLEX. Same with 9 km/L pure highway driving. I wonder though how different the consumption of the 2.0 models are, as well as how much less oomph there is with the F20 as compared to the F23. The 5hp difference on paper might be much more significant on the road.

Also alarming is that the VTi doesn't have ABS. I've had lots of instances that needed ABS. Perhaps for this reason alone I'll look for a VTi-L. All other differences are negligible - come to think of it, Honda differentiated the Accord rather poorly.

Everything else though strengthens my hypothesis that the Accord is a good buy for my needs. I wonder how fresh the secondhand units are - I'd like to think that these are in better condition than their compact contemporaries since the previous owners tend to come from older and wealthier demographics who tend to race less and care more about maintenance.


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[Egan101]

I only take SLEX on my way home but that covers only 20% of my daily trip. Some will say that the VTi 2.0L AT consumes more gas than its bigger engined brother. The VTi MT can do better in terms of FC plus less maintenance needed for its tranny. There are a few VTi-L 2.3L MT models and it is rare to find them in the used market. If you can chance on one, maybe that's the best option if you opt for an MT 6th gen Accord. Well, on my end, 6 km/L for a more comfortable and responsive car is better than driving a compact with a smaller engine and get 7 km/L (even less for some gas gazzling compacts).

Also, if going for an Accord, be sure to get those with CR years 2001 or 2002. LTO updated its MVUC fee effective on car models 2001 and later. The MVUC fee for midsize cars 2000 or older is 6k! For model years 2001 or later, midsize models are charged 3600.

[vinj]

I think you'll be happy with the Accord or Lynx... just go with the best unit you can find since these cars are over a decade old already. Between your choices though, i'd go with the Mazda 3 2.0.

[jut703]

I think you'll be happy with the Accord or Lynx... just go with the best unit you can find since these cars are over a decade old already. Between your choices though, i'd go with the Mazda 3 2.0.

I realized that the Mazda costs double that of an Accord. Might be too steep for a backup car, since I don't think I can recoup the higher sticker price from better economy or cheaper maintenance. And there's something charming about a 90's era car for me, I don't know why. But then again, these 3s are half the age of the Accord so possibly less headaches?

I only take SLEX on my way home but that covers only 20% of my daily trip. Some will say that the VTi 2.0L AT consumes more gas than its bigger engined brother. The VTi MT can do better in terms of FC plus less maintenance needed for its tranny. There are a few VTi-L 2.3L MT models and it is rare to find them in the used market. If you can chance on one, maybe that's the best option if you opt for an MT 6th gen Accord. Well, on my end, 6 km/L for a more comfortable and responsive car is better than driving a compact with a smaller engine and get 7 km/L (even less for some gas gazzling compacts).

Also, if going for an Accord, be sure to get those with CR years 2001 or 2002. LTO updated its MVUC fee effective on car models 2001 and later. The MVUC fee for midsize cars 2000 or older is 6k! For model years 2001 or later, midsize models are charged 3600.

In Sulit, I've been seeing quite a few VTi-L MTs but the sellers don't indicate if this is the 2.0 or 2.3.
A bit OT, is Sulit the best place to look for a used car in good condition? What are my other options?

Thanks for the tidbit on the LTO fee, didn't know they doubled it.


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[vinj]

If the Accord or Lynx was properly maintained, i would assume the amount of service and repair work will just be equal to a Mazda 3 that has not seen major service workovers yet... It really boils down to the unit you find. If it's a unit used by the previous owner who would repair it when needed and serviced regularly, then it would still be as reliable as the newer Mazda 3.

Aside from Sulit, try also looking at the Manila Bulletin classifieds on a Sunday.

[lowslowbenz]

The Ford Lynx uses Mazda components all thru out di ba? Or I'm mistaken?

Of the two, I'd choose the Lynx, 4 doors, big engine, proper trunk, sits 4 adults comfortably, and a sleeper to boot. It's like having a BMW M3 without the badges.

A wolf in sheep's clothing.

[Egan101]

In Sulit, I've been seeing quite a few VTi-L MTs but the sellers don't indicate if this is the 2.0 or 2.3.
A bit OT, is Sulit the best place to look for a used car in good condition? What are my other options?

Thanks for the tidbit on the LTO fee, didn't know they doubled it.


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Some owners, specially those who are not too geeky with their cars will not have much of an idea if their 6th gen Accord has a 2.0L or 2.3L engine. The VTi or VTi-L tag is the easiest identifier. The best way to check it is get the chassis number and confirm it against Honda records. Unlike the 7th gen and 8th gen models which clearly indicate the engine displacement on the car. The Honda F engines have the same mounts as the H engines. The H22 (engine of the Accord SiR) is a common option for an engine swap but you need to have the right tranny and ECU to get the swap right. The H22 is rated at 200hp (AT) and a bit higher for the MT. The newer Accords use the K engines for the 4-cylinder models and the J engines for the 6-cylinder models.

Sulit has some good options as well as AyosDito. Maybe you can also chance upon some within your neighborhood with ads posted within the car themselves.

If you're looking at the Mazda3 2.0R, you might also consider the 2004-2005 Civic ES 2.0L (K20). It shares the same platform as the 2001-2005 Civic ES (Dimension, "singkit") and the same engine as the 2.0L 7th gen Accord. Some 7th gen Accords are also priced in the same range, 300k to 350k.

[dr. d]

Also, if going for an Accord, be sure to get those with CR years 2001 or 2002. LTO updated its MVUC fee effective on car models 2001 and later. The MVUC fee for midsize cars 2000 or older is 6k! For model years 2001 or later, midsize models are charged 3600.

mabuti sinabi mo! i was eyeing a used midsize car..., but i didn't know about this little LTO tidbit.. thanks.

[jut703]

Reviving this thread since I'm looking to get a second car soon.

As before, I'm looking for the following things in a car:

1. Faster than average (0-100 of about 10 seconds, and can reach around 200 kph)
2. Looks respectable and not out of place when pitted against newer cars
3. Fun to drive
4. Reliable and fairly easy to source parts (since I'm looking primarily at midsizers I understand if it's not cheap, but hopefully repairs don't happen too frequently)
5. Preferably manual, but a quick-shifting AT will also do
6. Car to be kept for about 5 years

I've upped my budget to ~350k, but I don't necessarily need to use it all up. The cheaper, the better, unless there's a really good reason to shell out more.

I've narrowed down my list to the ff. cars:

1. '05-'07 Mazda 6 (facelifted, 2.3L engine): ~300-400k



+ Fast and torquey (faster than most 2-liter compacts, reaches 200 kph easily)
+ Ages really well and still looks more upscale than any subcompact/compact in the market
+ Best exterior and interior design among all my choices
+ Boatload of features (6 airbags, traction control, HID, sunroof, climate control, power seats, etc)
+ No known issues
+ No need to upgrade anything
- Very rare, and since units are few and far in between, prices are so volatile (saw one before as low as 295k and as high as 598k)
- Expensive (costs as much as a 2.4 Camry of the same vintage even if it's not a Toyota)
- Only comes in automatic (but it's a responsive AT so it's ok, though definitely a gas guzzler)
- Might be expensive to maintain, unless parts are easily sourced from MazFord

2. '98-'02 Honda Accord VTi/VTi-L MT: ~160-220k



+ Much cheaper than all my other choices
+ Great performance
+ Timeless looks
+ Mostly mechanical so maintenance shouldn't be much more expensive than a Civic
+ Relatively easy to find (though an all-stock unit is so rare)
+ Manual transmission
+ Honda Accord nameplate (still has a better ring to it than Toyota Vios)
- Oldest among my choices, inevitably will need more maintenance - however, since it's so cheap, I have so much spare budget for repairs
- Need to add fog lamps, change headlamps to either projectors or Osram NB, change HU to something that's aux-ready, change back to stock mags or decent OEM-looking 17-inchers
- Not all that prestigious anymore (the timeless design just can't stay youthful forever, doesn't look very expensive anymore though still more upscale to me than any current subcompact except perhaps the Fiesta)

3. '05-'06 Mazda 3 2.0R: ~320-360k



+ Looks stunning and looks even more modern than some of the current compacts/subcompacts
+ Best-in-class handling
+ Complete with features (HID, climate control, sunroof)
+ Fairly easy to find parts since it's a common compact car
+ No need to upgrade anything
- 4-speed AT (though it's pretty responsive)
- Expensive considering it's just a compact car
- Not really twice as good as an Accord, but twice the price

4. '05-'07 Honda Civic 1.8S MT: ~350-450k



+ Manual transmission
+ Most efficient among all my choices
+ Fairly easy to maintain since it's so common
- Too common, doesn't have that much appeal to me
- Budget only allows a pre-facelift model, which isn't very handsome to me
- Most expensive option even if it's just a compact, hard to justify against the Accord which is half the price

5. '99-'01 Honda CR-V MT: ~240-270k



+ SUV (can easily fit my bike inside, has high ground clearance)
+ B20 engine with a manual transmission
+ Still looks respectable despite its age
- I don't know how to tell if it's the 126 hp or 147 hp B20 engine, or if the 147 hp B20 engine ever came with a manual
- Lackluster handling and brakes

Rounding out the top 10 are my other options:
6. '04-'06 Toyota Camry 2.4V (350-450k) - great executive car, but really boring to drive
7. '01-'03 Ford Lynx RS (250-300k) - good performance, not too convinced about its looks, ugly interior
8. '03-'05 Honda Accord 2.0 VTi-L (300-4500k) - good performance, good interior, forgettable exterior
9. '05-'07 Ford Focus TDCi MT (400-500k) - superb performance with stellar FC, ugly interior, too expensive
10. '03-'05 Honda Civic ES 2.0S (300-330k) - great engine but it's essentially an inferior Mazda 3 2.0R

Right now, I'm currently leaning towards the Accord. My reason is that it fulfills all my requirements at the cheapest price. I know it's not the best car (it's obviously the Mz6), but the 200k savings can be used for a lot of other stuff.

Should I go for the Accord, or should I wait for a cheap Mazda 6 to be available? Arguments for any of the 8 other cars I listed are also very much welcome, as well as additional suggestions in case I missed something out.

Looking forward to hearing different opinions on this, thanks a lot!

[jut703]

Short version of above post: Should I get an Accord (160k) or is it worth it to get a newer but more expensive car (300-350k) even if the performance is just the same?

Additionally, aside from OLX and AyosDito, where else can I find a wide array of used car offerings?

[EQAddict]

The accord is slow as molasses. I had the 2.4 liter version of that before. It was an automatic. I think the 2 liter is even whimpier. Get the mazda 6 . Better yet, use the money for your property.


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[jut703]

The accord is slow as molasses. I had the 2.4 liter version of that before. It was an automatic. I think the 2 liter is even whimpier. Get the mazda 6 . Better yet, use the money for your property.


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Which Accord are you referring to? The 6th gen Accord only came in 2.0 and 2.3. Perhaps you mean the 7th gen?

I appreciate the concern bro but I need a car and I'd rather wait 6 years before I buy a house but have a car than wait only 5 years but have to commute all day.



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[willyfernando]

To the TS,

I usually get 2nd hand cars from this website, Phil Motors Philippines - Used cars | Car dealers | Cars for sale | Second hand cars | New vehicles | Used cars for sale , try them. You can also check out bank listings. BDO has a 20-25% discount offer on their inventories of repo cars until October 15, 2014.

[Jun aka Pekto]

With a 2.0, I'd go with a compact instead of a midsize. On the list, that means the Civic and Mazda 3.

How about a (2008 and later) Mitsu Lancer? Pretty aggressive looking car to me.

[IMG]http://cdn04.*******/20140920211500-79831103614988bca363c72d76002579.jpg[/IMG]

[jut703]

With a 2.0, I'd go with a compact instead of a midsize. On the list, that means the Civic and Mazda 3.

How about a (2008 and later) Mitsu Lancer? Pretty aggressive looking car to me.

I agree that a 2.0 engine might be too burdened with a big midsizer. However, the 6 has a 2.3 engine while the Accord is lighter than most compacts, giving good power-to-weight ratios:

Mazda 6 2.3: 164 hp/1442 kg = 114 HP/ton
Accord 2.0 VTi: 152 hp/1350 kg = 113 HP/ton
Mazda 3 2.0: 141 hp/1365 kg = 103 HP/ton
Civic 1.8 S: 140 hp/1215 kg = 115 HP/ton
CR-V 2.0: 147 hp/1430 kg = 103 HP/ton

As for the Lancer EX, I'm not a fan of its CVT, and manuals are rare. Plus, they're very expensive. They're not any better than a Mazda 3 2.0R, but since they're newer, they cost hundreds of thousands more.

[_Qwerty_]

how about 2005 Nissan Cefiro??

[Jun aka Pekto]

I agree that a 2.0 engine might be too burdened with a big midsizer. However, the 6 has a 2.3 engine while the Accord is lighter than most compacts, giving good power-to-weight ratios:

Mazda 6 2.3: 164 hp/1442 kg = 114 HP/ton
Accord 2.0 VTi: 152 hp/1350 kg = 113 HP/ton
Mazda 3 2.0: 141 hp/1365 kg = 103 HP/ton
Civic 1.8 S: 140 hp/1215 kg = 115 HP/ton
CR-V 2.0: 147 hp/1430 kg = 103 HP/ton

As for the Lancer EX, I'm not a fan of its CVT, and manuals are rare. Plus, they're very expensive. They're not any better than a Mazda 3 2.0R, but since they're newer, they cost hundreds of thousands more.

My nephew in Nevada recently bought a 2015 2.5L (184hp) Mazda 6 and he seems happy with it. We'll all be spending New Year's Eve at Las Vegas. He'll be there. I'll see if I can persuade him to let me test drive his 6.

[[archie]]

If your after torque, let go of the accord. So slow for a 2 liter.

The crv first gen, the higher hp rating is the 2000 2001 model. The one with a silver box on the intake (it's a silencer).

From the choices and storage of a bike, crv gets my vote.

The maintenance is a breeze because it shares almost the same components of an ek civic.

Don't worry about the brakes, I got bendix metal king pads and it's enough to stop the car with a tuned engine at 165whp.

Ford rs get my vote if it's pure performance.

Edit: other than Olx and ayosdito join groups on fb. Just search for them. Maganda is wala masyado buy and sell.