audio set-up for beginners [continued]

**jhnkvn** · November 1st, 2014 04:16 AM

Originally Posted by D3nb3r

sir jhnkvn ok lang po ba na mag cross ng HPF 60-70Hz sa speaker na may Fs=86Hz and a frequency response of 43-3kHz?
Background(someitimes slightly higher) listening lang.

First order is that... don't look at the frequency response of a certain speaker -- this is because it's a terrible guide in telling you what the speaker does. Sure, it may hit 43hz but at what decibel level? Knowing how low it hits but without knowing if you can actually hear it is pointless ;)

For the question... I'll reply it in a short answer: It's not a problem.

For example, I know a lot of people who remove their midbass filter so that it rolls down naturally. Of course, they take extra care not to play that loud in order not to damage their speakers. Mickey (of Mickey's Autosound) drives around either with a 50hz (4th order slope) or a 63hz (2nd order slope) filter on his Focal 3-way Flax set which is running sub-less.

If you want to know how loud you can go being sub-less, it's much more than most people think. There's a lot of people who're afraid to test the limits of their midbass speaker but I assure you -- it's way more than "background listening" ;)

**jhnkvn** · November 1st, 2014 04:31 AM

Originally Posted by sientobente

sometimes when we'd like to have bass, all we need is a tweeter

it sounds crazy but it was discussed in wiredstate where sir hansen mentioned:

"The distinct sound and timbre of "bass" instruments as we know it - be it different sized drums, organs, bass guitars, synths etc are not purely bass frequencies but have significant amount of midrange and treble frequency content. It does not increase bass quantity per se but it does increase bass articulation, clarity and intelligibility because the added treble results to a more accurate recreation of bass timbre."

That.. depends.

50hz is still 50hz if you talk about wavelengths.

I do know what you point out though..

The best way on how to illustrate this to play something with drums -- like Hotel California and have your subwoofer play from the usual 20hz-80hz. If you disable all the speakers except the subwoofer, all you hear are the fundamental frequencies of the kick drum's lows which is around 60-100hz. However that doesn't make it a complete kick drum since a kick drum also contains other "energies" that makes it a kick drum such as the bass punch of around 100-300hz, the mids at 400-800hz, and the bite/attack at 2khz~

**jhnkvn** · November 1st, 2014 04:42 AM

Originally Posted by kazer

hello, i'm using a mitsu gsr at the moment and planning to setup my audio.
I' ve started by upgrading the hu to Pioneer deh-155MP w/c is a entry level. all other are stock. given 12k budget mas maganda bang bumili na lang ako ng branded seperates like jbl (GTO 609C) then save ung sukli or i pang upgrade nlang ng HU ung sukli.
(ba may iba pa pala kayo recomendation sa seperates and pati HU na rin)

Reason i want a new HU is kasi 1 pre out lang un akin, much better daw kung dalawa.
thinking of an alpine cde 142e. or a HU in 6k price range..

I'M into edm at the moment like hardwell and armin,minsan rnb or anything with full of energy.

sa mickeys pala ako nag base ng price.

My suggestion is to get it off and running muna by changing your speakers. From there, I'd suggest upgrading your head unit. Most conventional head units have 2-3 pre-outs naman and I suggest you get at least 2 (front/sub) pre-outs.. 3 pre-outs is simply icing for the cake but kinda unnecessary. For the typical newbie, I'll recommend completing the sound chain first -- which means getting your speakers, amplifier, and subwoofer as a start.

**D3nb3r** · November 1st, 2014 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by jhnkvn

First order is that... don't look at the frequency response of a certain speaker -- this is because it's a terrible guide in telling you what the speaker does. Sure, it may hit 43hz but at what decibel level? Knowing how low it hits but without knowing if you can actually hear it is pointless ;)

For the question... I'll reply it in a short answer: It's not a problem.

For example, I know a lot of people who remove their midbass filter so that it rolls down naturally. Of course, they take extra care not to play that loud in order not to damage their speakers. Mickey (of Mickey's Autosound) drives around either with a 50hz (4th order slope) or a 63hz (2nd order slope) filter on his Focal 3-way Flax set which is running sub-less.

If you want to know how loud you can go being sub-less, it's much more than most people think. There's a lot of people who're afraid to test the limits of their midbass speaker but I assure you -- it's way more than "background listening" ;)

Thanks sir jhnkvn. Yung tanong ko is for the gears that I got from the ICE section at KAC. Amp is a Rockford Fosgate p300.2 and seps are Polk Audio mmc6500 momo edition. Both are 2nd hand and oldschool gears. As per reviews this mmc6500’s are loud and bright kaya might have to use the -3 or -6 attenuation to tame this tweets. I’m not going to push those amps and speakers to their limits though

Wires and deadening na lang kulang...

Pahabol sir jhnkvn. Pag nag level match ng seps with a DMM using a 1000Hz test tone pwede rin ba na thru flash drive na lang of the USB ng HU pa tugtugin yung test tone instead of burning it sa CD?

**red_one** · November 1st, 2014 10:19 AM

a test tone is a test tone regardless which source you use, as long as you use the same source on all speakers to be level matched. as an example, you can even use FM/AM radio for level matching. just tune to a frequency not used by any station so you only hear pure static noise.

**D3nb3r** · November 1st, 2014 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by red_one

a test tone is a test tone regardless which source you use, as long as you use the same source on all speakers to be level matched. as an example, you can even use FM/AM radio for level matching. just tune to a frequency not used by any station so you only hear pure static noise.

So bale regardless of what frequency and source of test tone po ang gagamitin the voltage output of the amp is constant at a given volume? May mga nabasa kasi ako sa DIYMA na for the sub they use 40Hz or 50Hz and sa seps 1kHz, depende sa application. Correct me if I’m wrong po.

Mas madali lang sana if I’ll just use my ears in level matching the gains, but then other experts say na not all clip signals can be heard (you see my dilemma?). Wala naman akong access sa osci so DMM is my best option para I won’t send a clip signal sa seps since 75wrms lang ang amp ko powering a 125wrms speaker. Gusto ko lang sana yung parang may bench mark ako from a real data na ma measure ko. But something tells me din naman na I wont be sending clip signal sa speakers if I play kahit medyo higher than background listening dahil yung 50-60watts output is already loud for some people.

Hope you can dumb it down for me. Thanks.

**kazer** · November 1st, 2014 03:40 PM

thx jhnkvn! i'm really looking for your response.. (btw i enjoyed the LL war over the other thread hehe)

can anyone point me to or suggest the stuffs to buy. specially sa ampli .
i'll probably get the seps i mentioned ove or does yone suggest anything better at 5k price point.

**red_one** · November 1st, 2014 05:07 PM

*D3nb3r: you can use your ears for level matching. for stereo, test tone is used to adjust the balance (or gain/level) between left and right channels. actually, you can even do it on-the-fly while listening to music.

test tone of different frequency can be used for determining frequency response of each driver (bass, mid-bass, tweeter) or testing the crossover/filters. it really depends on what you want to accomplish.

basic question, have you read the user manuals of Rockford Fosgate p300.2 and Polk Audio MMC6500 Momo already? you can download both online. they are very simple to connect and setup. i think you worry too much.

how to adjust the gain of Fosgate p300.2

ADJUSTING GAIN
To adjust the gain setting, turn the amplifier gains all the way down (counterclockwise). Turn the source unit volume up until distortion is audible and then turn it down a bit until the distortion is inaudible.This will be about all the way up on most source units. Next, increase the amplifier gain setting until adequate volume is achieved.

NOTE:Best signal to noise and dynamic range are realized with the gain at minimum. Most users find adequate gain and volume is achieved at about halfway in the adjustment range.

**D3nb3r** · November 1st, 2014 06:47 PM

Originally Posted by red_one

*D3nb3r: you can use your ears for level matching. for stereo, test tone is used to adjust the balance (or gain/level) between left and right channels. actually, you can even do it on-the-fly while listening to music.

test tone of different frequency can be used for determining frequency response of each driver (bass, mid-bass, tweeter) or testing the crossover/filters. it really depends on what you want to accomplish.

basic question, have you read the user manuals of Rockford Fosgate p300.2 and Polk Audio MMC6500 Momo already? you can download both online. they are very simple to connect and setup. i think you worry too much.

how to adjust the gain of Fosgate p300.2

Yun nga siguro yung tamang term po I “worry too much”

. Yan din reply sa akin kung minsan dun sa KAC. hehehe. Umiiral lang talaga minsan pagka curious ko sa isang bagay na gusto ko ma tutunan and nag hahanap talaga ako ng explanation kung bakit naging ganun yung isang bagay, mapa google man or personal experience ng iba.

And yes na download ko na po yung manuals of both the gears and read them all. Di lang masyado detailed yung manual ng p300.2. I mean detailed sya but in general na pagka detail. I know hindi naman i-explain ng manufacturer lahat sa owners manual dahil most people don’t care or want to read those technical stuff. Makabit lang ayos na. Service manual ata hinahanap ko. kaya yung ibang manuals ng RF, JL, JBL and DLS ginagawa kong supplementary reference sa tuning. I have another term for what I have “too much curiosity”

But thanks for sharing your point of view and info.

**red_one** · November 1st, 2014 10:59 PM

*D3nb3r: actually, the tuning you can do is limited to what your equipment can offer. it follows that the user manual will only cover what the actual equipment is capable of.

for the p300.2 amp, there is nothing you need to adjust but the Gain. for sure you will use All Pass mode since you're connecting separates. if you have a subwoofer, you can opt to use High Pass mode for the separates and set the cut-off point between subwoofer and separates.

for the Polk Momo speakers, there is nothing again to adjust since it uses passive crossover. you can only attenuate the level of the tweeters (0, -3dB, -6dB) but you can't adjust crossover frequency between mid-bass and tweeter.