A Simple Solution to a Worldwide Crisis

[architect]

Prius Outdoes Hummer in Environmental Damage – By Chris Demorro

The Toyota Prius has become the flagship car for those in our society so environmentally conscious that they are willing to spend a premium to show the world how much they care. Unfortunately for them, their ultimate green car is the source of some of the worst pollution in North America; it takes more combined energy per Prius to produce than a Hummer.

Before we delve into the seedy underworld of hybrids, you must first understand how a hybrid works. For this, we will use the most popular hybrid on the market, the Toyota Prius.

The Prius is powered by not one, but two engines: a standard 76 horsepower, 1.5-liter gas engine found in most cars today and a battery- powered engine that deals out 67 horsepower and a whooping 295ft/lbs of torque, below 2000 revolutions per minute. Essentially, the Toyota Synergy Drive system, as it is so called, propels the car from a dead stop to up to 30mph. This is where the largest percent of gas is consumed. As any physics major can tell you, it takes more energy to get an object moving than to keep it moving. The battery is recharged through the braking system, as well as when the gasoline engine takes over anywhere north of 30mph. It seems like a great energy efficient and environmentally sound car, right?

You would be right if you went by the old government EPA estimates, which netted the Prius an incredible 60 miles per gallon in the city and 51 miles per gallon on the highway. Unfortunately for Toyota, the government realized how unrealistic their EPA tests were, which consisted of highway speeds limited to 55mph and acceleration of only 3.3 mph per second. The new tests which affect all 2008 models give a much more realistic rating with highway speeds of 80mph and acceleration of 8mph per second. This has dropped the Prius EPA down by 25 percent to an average of 45mpg. This now puts the Toyota within spitting distance of cars like the Chevy Aveo, which costs less then half what the Prius costs.

However, if that was the only issue with the Prius, I wouldn't be writing this article. It gets much worse.

Building a Toyota Prius causes more environmental damage than a Hummer that is on the road for three times longer than a Prius. As already noted, the Prius is partly driven by a battery which contains nickel. The nickel is mined and smelted at a plant in Sudbury, Ontario. This plant has caused so much environmental damage to the surrounding environment that NASA has used the dead zone around the plant to test moon rovers. The area around the plant is devoid of any life for miles.

The plant is the source of all the nickel found in a Prius battery and Toyota purchases 1,000 tons annually. Dubbed the Superstack, the plague-factory has spread sulfur dioxide across northern Ontario, becoming every environmentalist nightmare.

The acid rain around Sudbury was so bad it destroyed all the plants and the soil slid down off the hillside, said Canadian Greenpeace energy-coordinator David Martin during an interview with Mail, a British-based newspaper.

All of this would be bad enough in and of itself; however, the journey to make a hybrid doesn't end there. The nickel produced by this disastrous plant is shipped via massive container ship to the largest nickel refinery in Europe. From there, the nickel hops over to China to produce nickel foam. From there, it goes to Japan. Finally, the completed batteries are shipped to the United States, finalizing the around-the-world trip required to produce a single Prius battery. Are these not sounding less and less like environmentally sound cars and more like a farce?

Wait, I haven't even got to the best part yet.

When you pool together all the combined energy it takes to drive and build a Toyota Prius, the flagship car of energy fanatics, it takes almost 50 percent more energy than a Hummer – the Prius arch nemesis.

Through a study by CNW Marketing called “Dust to Dust" the total combined energy is taken from all the electrical, fuel, transportation, materials (metal, plastic, etc) and hundreds of other factors over the expected lifetime of a vehicle. The Prius costs an average of $3.25 per mile driven over a lifetime of 100,000 miles – the expected lifespan of the Hybrid.

The Hummer, on the other hand, costs a more fiscal $1.95 per mile to put on the road over an expected lifetime of 300,000 miles. That means the Hummer will last three times longer than a Prius and use less combined energy doing it.

So, if you are really an environmentalist – ditch the Prius. Instead, buy one of the most economical cars available – a Toyota Scion xB. The Scion only costs a paltry $0.48 per mile to put on the road. If you are still obsessed over gas mileage – buy a Chevy Aveo and fix that lead foot.

One last fun fact for you: it takes five years to offset the premium price of a Prius. Meaning, you have to wait 60 months to save any money over a non-hybrid car because of lower gas expenses.

It may interest you to know that the above article was written by a staff writer of a school paper of a small town school - Central Connecticut State University.

The article has since been debated in several blogs and forums, such as the ones below, with several of Demorro's "facts" being disputed -

http://forums.storagereview.net/inde...howtopic=24978

http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/f...part-ii-18789/

http://wallofcheese.blogspot.com/200...mental_03.html

In addition, Demorro has been accused of plagiarizing from the article below -
http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automoti...Commentary.pdf

[jpdm]

I will only take the article seriously if it was written in a scientific journal or academic journal (peer reviewed), but definitely its not.

Also, Im not comfortable with his sources i.e CNW Marketing

[architect]

I will only take the article seriously if it was written in a scientific journal or academic journal (peer reviewed), but definitely its not.

Also, Im not comfortable with his sources i.e CNW Marketing

*doc JP

AFAIK, Spinella has not refuted rumors alleging CNW Marketing to be funded by GM. In addition, he has steadfastly refused to publish his research methodology in garnering facts for the Dust to Dust report - despite numerous requests from publications such as Slate, which picked up on said report.

His refusal is incredulous, given his credibility is at stake and that CNW's supposed profitability is anchored on subscriptions. Without credibility, the company will logically lose its subscribers.

[jpdm]

*doc JP

AFAIK, Spinella has not refuted rumors alleging CNW Marketing to be funded by GM. In addition, he has steadfastly refused to publish his research methodology in garnering facts for the Dust to Dust report - despite numerous requests from publications such as Slate, which picked up on said report.

His refusal is incredulous, given his credibility is at stake and that CNW's supposed profitability is anchored on subscriptions. Without credibility, the company will logically lose its subscribers.

Correct.

And in other words, he is not objective becuase he has vested interest and might be working for GM. Thats not objectivity and makes his "findings" invalid as proof.

Unless they revealed their methodology and certified by "authorities (in research,"source of vaid data") or accepted by peers (again certified experts of the field (PhDs), I think the article is nothing more but a mumbo jumbo of numbers and findings.

Again, Math and Numbers (including low and behold, quantitative research) can be manipulated to state an opinion.

[ghosthunter]

Again, Math and Numbers (including low and behold, quantitative research) can be manipulated to state an opinion.

You can do your own math calculations since the facts were based on the fugures that came from you.

Fact: math is NOT an opinion.

[jpdm]

You can do your own math calculations since the facts were based on the fugures that came from you.

Fact: math is NOT an opinion.

Came from me or it came from the manufacturer and the proponents. I never made any calculations on my own because I trust the proponents (definitely authorities in their field)of the project. And I never made a comparison unlike what you have done.

In fact, Im not questioning your calculations or numbers per se but how you arrived at those numbers.

Who said that math is an opinion? You and definitely you, IMHO.

This is my original post.

Per se, math is not an opinion. But math can be used or even manipulated to state an opinion. Thus, it is a tool in making an opinion.

Again, And I categorically said that math can be used and manipulated to suit your needs. Like stating your view of reality or your opinion.

With all due respect, do you understand that? Basic research will tell you that.

[ghosthunter]

Came from me or it came from the manufacturer and the proponents. I never made any calculations on my own because I trust the proponents (definitely authorities in their field)of the project.

Who said that math is an opinion? You and definitely you, IMHO.

This is my original post.
Again, And I categorically said that math can be used and manipulated to suit your needs. Like stating your view of reality or your opinion.

With all due respect, do you understand that? Basic research will tell you that.

So do you own math to include purchase costing and operational costing. It is not that difficult. You can even post your own calculations if you doubt our math calculations. Or maybe you are just too afraid? We presented the math used. We even used your information that you or other proponents have previously posted in the discussion threads.

[ghosthunter]

I will only take the article seriously if it was written in a scientific journal or academic journal (peer reviewed), but definitely its not.

Also, Im not comfortable with his sources i.e CNW Marketing

I find this ironic coming from someone who likes to use YOUTUBE videos as proof of a working concept.

More over, the comparison analysis of the e-jeepney vs regular jeepney is pretty much similar if only not as detailed as the prius vs hummer.

[Gerbo]

So much have been said. But in my opinion, really, a simple but difficult way is to go back in time and change our ways how we do things.

In essence, go the Amish way.

The human species have been so dominant that we have crafted the way to the future of this planet.

It's now a duel between nature vs. anything "man-made". Time will come some of us will leave Earth because it will become inhospitable.

In the name of development, we become poor stewards of the resources we are given.

[jpdm]

I find this ironic coming from someone who likes to use YOUTUBE videos as proof of a working concept.

What you tube videos thing?

I categorically deny that I posted tube videos as proof of a working concept. and I never posted one. (unless you edit my post again to suit your need just like that poster with uncle sam depicting me as stupid.)

IMHO, I really dont know what you are talking about. In my opinion, I think you are just making up thing or just plain lying for saying this.

Honestly, in my opinion, I really find it odd and it doesnt make sense, after I just commented on a post of a forumer re:article on prius, you again accuse me of doing something that I did not actually do unless you just want to put me down.

As if you have an axe to grind against me.

More over, the comparison analysis of the e-jeepney vs regular jeepney is pretty much similar if only not as detailed as the prius vs hummer.

I never made any comparison. You did.

Pretty much similar between prius vs hummer? you are definitely wrong here, in my humble opinion.

People like that guy who wrote that article can USE and Manipulate numbers to state his opinion or view of reality.

These are my opinions only.

[uls]

It may interest you to know that the above article was written by a staff writer of a school paper of a small town school - Central Connecticut State University.

The article has since been debated in several blogs and forums, such as the ones below, with several of Demorro's "facts" being disputed -

http://forums.storagereview.net/inde...howtopic=24978

http://www.greenhybrid.com/discuss/f...part-ii-18789/

http://wallofcheese.blogspot.com/200...mental_03.html

In addition, Demorro has been accused of plagiarizing from the article below -
http://cnwmr.com/nss-folder/automoti...Commentary.pdf

ok

sorry

i didnt check the background of the article

but even if that article is only 50% factual, it still raises the question if the Prius is really as environment friendly as people think it is

all people see is the finished product -- a car that burns very little fuel

but people do not see what goes into making a Prius

i'm sure the production process (raw material extraction & delivery, the logistics involved in putting together the car, the energy it takes to run manufacturing facilities, etc) has a huge carbon footprint

let's even forget i posted that article

just use a little imagination

the Prius isn't as green as people think it is

[architect]

ok

sorry

i didnt check the background of the article

but even if that article is only 50% factual, it still raises the question if the Prius is really as environment friendly as people think it is

all people see is the finished product -- a car that burns very little fuel

but people do not see what goes into making a Prius

i'm sure the production process (raw material extraction & delivery, the logistics involved in putting together the car, the energy it takes to run manufacturing facilities, etc) has a huge carbon footprint

let's even forget i posted that article

just use a little imagination

the Prius isn't as green as people think it is

Actually I am glad you posted the controversial article as I would like to find out the truth re the allegations raised. Hopefully it would lead to a healthy discussion of not only the Prius but other hybrid cars as well.

Having driven the Prius (current and previous gens), I am very impressed with its performance to the point I am considering purchasing one for my son in California next year.

My two siblings there, like so many other professionals, have swapped their cars for this hybrid. My brother went from a Hummer to the previous gen. My sis replaced her BMW X3 for the current gen.

While the Prius is quite compact, it has in fact more legroom than the Porsche Cayenne. With my 6'2" brother-in-law driving the Prius, there was more than 6" of leg space for the passenger seat directly behind him. Whereas with his Cayenne, the legroom was very cramped. My sis is able to achieve almost 50 mpg while my brother, with his pinoy-style of driving still managed 40 mpg.

In addition it has enough power to go uphill with four adults, as well as accelerate fast enough, merging into the freeway.

The economics of fuel-saving vis-a-vis the price aside, the Prius does indeed emit much less pollution. Enough for the State of California to grant the first batch carpool lane exemption (even with just the driver). Given the gridlock traffic, especially in Silicon Valley, it was a very compelling incentive.

In addition, Toyota offers a 8 years/100,000 miles full parts and labor warranty for the entire hybrid system (which includes the hybrid battery pack). For California, it is even longer (10 years/150,000 miles) for the hybrid battery and certain emissions components. The new model will even have a longer warranty.

Moreover it has several amenities - GPS, proximity key, parking sensors, etc. All which add up to a nice attractive package.

Of course, the considerations in the U.S. for purchasing the Prius are very different than those here in the Philippines. But the compelling reasons for going green exist all over the planet.

Thus the question is whether the Prius' alleged huge carbon footprint during production (as compared to other hatchbacks, I guess) is really true and if so, does it totally negate the reduction in emission during use?

Hopefully we will find out. Thanks.

[Rev!t]

Of course, the considerations in the U.S. for purchasing the Prius are very different than those here in the Philippines. But the compelling reasons for going green exist all over the planet.

^
and afaik, buying a Prius or any hybrid here in the Philippines is odd..pathetic, or in street talk - b.s. In U.S., you get tax incentives or rebates while in RP, you get punished by paying high taxes (or even tongpats).

correct me if Im wrong fellows..

[niky]

Nope. You pay the exact same tax everyone else pays for purchasing an expensive vehicle.

That's the problem with hybrids. Nakaka-save ng gas ang owner... but who pays for their tax breaks and incentives?

Owners of other vehicles... that's who. Going green should be its own reward... but if others have to shoulder your savings, then there's something fundamentally flawed with the "green" model being espoused. Why should taxpayers shoulder up to $7000 for other people's hybrids? That 3.5 - 7k incentive could instead be used to research alternative fuels, or could go to building solar, hydroelectric or whatever power stations, which would have a bigger long-term impact than a single hybrid.

Hybrids make more financial and environmental sense as applied to public utility fleets... where the number of kilometers covered and number of passengers served means that a hybrid will pay for itself within less than a year... even without a tax break.

Why am I focused so much on money? Well... money doesn't grow on trees. To generate the money it costs to build a hybrid... crops are grown and topsoil is lost. Animals are farmed and animal populations are depleted, or even more crops are grown to feed those animals. Oil is pumped and refined. People build houses, make goods, sell goods. To make money requires economic activity... which, at its very core, is fueled by natural resources.

Instead of generating more economic activity and thus, natural resource usage, which is required to cover the shortfall in government revenue created by "green" tax breaks and which is accelerated by the "carbon offset" economy... why not use all that energy to directly build sustainable power in the first place? Put a punitive tax on all fossil fuel used and use that tax to fund construction of renewable energy resources. Don't give tax breaks for hybrids or electrics... as it takes non-renewable energy to make them, in the first place!

Encouraging people to buy more expensive items because it's the "green" thing to do misses the point. Why not just encourage them to spend less. Spend less on automobiles... spend less on gasoline, by commuting, walking or cycling. Spend less on travel altogether by moving closer to your place of work, or finding work closer to home... or by working via the internet.

By promoting hybrids, we just perpetuate the same wasteful lifestyle... we're just putting a better face on it, is all.

[architect]

Hi Niky,

That is a interesting counterpoint re hybrids insofar as the U.S. situation is concerned and which makes sense. Unfortunately, given the economic situation these days, a lot of people can't afford to choose a job that is near their home, much less one that lets them telecommute. They would be happy to get a job anywhere, even one that requires a 1-2 hour commute, which in the automobile-oriented state of California, wouldn't be uncommon.

In addition, suburban spread necessitates the use of a vehicle even just to make your weekly runs to the grocery, hardware, or to the mall. The integration of the automobile into daily life in the suburbs has been around for decades that it will take a disruptive paradigm shift to successfully wean people from it.

Until someone is able to develop such model, hybrids appear to be a good compromise start. And tax incentives help kick start hybrids, since as products in their initial phase of their life cycles, their pricing tend to include R&D costs. The hope, obviously, is that as volume ramps up, acquisition cost will decrease. In the interim, hybrid owners not only save on fuel, they also generate less pollution while using their cars.

There is also something intangible about owning a hybrid. From my observation, my siblings and other Prius owners appear to be more health-conscious, more concerned about their respective carbon footprints. Going green seems to extend beyond just driving a hybrid car. There is a remarked change in lifestyle.

Obviously not all hybrid owners experience such epiphany. But for every one that does, it means a reduction in carbon footprint for yet another person.

[niky]

There's always cycling and/or motorcycling. I used to walk and cycle a lot, when time permitted. Unfortunately, our government just doesn't prioritize pedestrians in the city, when it should. Ever try to walk from one end of EDSA to the other? The sidewalks are terrible... there are electric poles sticking right through the sidewalk everywhere... ramps are blocked... those stupid pink fences make the sidewalks too tight, and you're expected to climb up or down a zillion steps just to cross the street. It's oddly liberating, though... being carless. Expenses just evaporate.

This isn't to say that hybrids don't make sense at all... there are situations where they do make sense, as long as you meet the minimum number of kilometers a year, or as long as hybrid stays on the road long enough to become carbon-neutral... and... having driven the Prius, it's a much better car for commuting than 90% of what people buy nowadays... but the true cost should always be reflected... to let people know what they are. Much of it isn't development cost, anymore. It's true materials cost. Looking at other hybrids and pure electrics, the size of this material cost is staggering. Unless and until the breakthrough in battery technology we're hoping for comes about (I was hoping for something from NanoSafe or RedLion... but nothing, yet...), this may yet prove to be the ultimate downfall of electric and hybrid electric vehicles.

Unless, of course, we see that paradigm shift you were talking about.

The big problem with suburbia is that it was built up around the modern concept of the automobile. The automobile gave workers a huge increase in commuting range. With cheap gas, good roads and cheap automobiles, Americans were able to adapt a lifestyle that allowed them to live far away from the nearest convenience store, grocery and job. Now that it's more expensive to motor, both in a financial and environmental sense, there's no easy way to reverse the trend... I think there's been talk about reviving city centers that had become slum areas and encouraging people to move back in... but I don't know the situation there now.



We have an advantage here in the Philippines in that it's still possible to live without an automobile as long as you don't live in the new subdivision developments (the older ones and less exclusive ones have fairly well-established public utility lines). We have small-scale businesses that thrive within communities... so you don't actually have to drive a few miles to buy your groceries and needs... though you may have to drive further to work. Here, cheap electric vehicles might work. You don't need the extended range American electrics would need if you are to use your vehicle only for short trips within the community or to the nearest public utility terminal (taking a bus for the long trip to the city).

Even better... linkable electrics (I wonder where this concept has gone?)... by linking small electric vehicles together into road-trains, you increase energy efficiency by minimizing wind drag, spreading the power load over numerous cars, and by minimizing acceleration-deceleration events. And you'll still give each commuter trip flexibility at the ends of the road-train line (when they get off the highway at the city or when they get back to their community)... this also avoids the typical inefficiency of an empty city bus (3-4 mpg with one passenger versus 3-4 mpg with sixty passengers is a big difference!).

One can only dream... ;)